Financial topics

Investments, gold, currencies, surviving after a financial meltdown
aedens
Posts: 5211
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by aedens »

John wrote:
aedens wrote: > After 15 weeks of being neutral, the "smart money" indicator has
> turned towards a more bearish reading. The "dumb money" indicator
> remains in the extreme bullish zone. While not there yet, the
> indicators are heading in the direction that one would expect to
> see at a market top.
> http://www.zerohedge.com/article/investor-sentiment-smart-money-turning-bearish
That's an amazing article. It breaks up the investor community into two
groups -- the dumb investors, and the smart investors -- and draws
conclusions from what they're doing now.

John
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gold-v ... llar-index

Interviewer: If ATC 2009 takes place, what EA would you submit: the same one or another one?

"We are developing a system now the indicator of which should be connected to ESA (European Space Agency) or, more specifically, to Kopernikus GMES. This indicator can get information at first hand. It will be connected directly to a space fleet of various sattelites informing about forthcoming crises on the Earth. This will be like getting weekly weather forecasts from meteorologists. Having such information, the indicator can inform us about forthcoming changes on the market before the crisis starts affecting it. This indicator will probably accompany other trading ideas that you may get to know on the Championship in 2009."

Botniks
Remember the data stream ethics conveyed in the forums when we .bin data snips scripts.
No different just scripts of intent which is just innovation at work called data. I get a kick out the SEC mission probality with out synergy's of *.*.gov love.
Can the SEC root the *.adminkey nope lol
jcsok
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:51 am

Re: Financial topics

Post by jcsok »

Could the Nikkei be leading the SP? Compare the weekly charts: the Nikkei made its low on the big break much sooner than the SP; in March when the SP bottomed, the Nikkei was just testing its prior low. The Nikkei has been in a downtrend for the last month; there's been quite a divergence in the two indices the past 3 months.

The sp hasn't followed through on its latest breakout (looking through my biased, myopic rose colored, bearish glasses).

Tonight, Nikkei has broken through support and is down sharply. Not being one who cares about being politically correct, is it OK to send an overnight letter to Santa asking for an early present of the beginning of the inevitable downward spiral?
aedens
Posts: 5211
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by aedens »

jcsok wrote:Could the Nikkei be leading the SP? Compare the weekly charts: the Nikkei made its low on the big break much sooner than the SP; in March when the SP bottomed, the Nikkei was just testing its prior low. The Nikkei has been in a downtrend for the last month; there's been quite a divergence in the two indices the past 3 months.

The sp hasn't followed through on its latest breakout (looking through my biased, myopic rose colored, bearish glasses).

Tonight, Nikkei has broken through support and is down sharply. Not being one who cares about being politically correct, is it OK to send an overnight letter to Santa asking for an early present of the beginning of the inevitable downward spiral?
Morgan sees 20-25% upside for Asia
MARKETS in Asia excluding Japan could see a further jump of as much as 25 per cent by the end of next year, a senior executive from Morgan Stanley said.
Source: http://finance.kampungtalk.net/

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/futures.html

http://www.cnbc.com/id/34012819/site/14 ... &par=yahoo
The Consumer Price Index, a measure of the average price level of a basket of consumer goods and services, was up 0.3% for the month of October, while the core CPI rate, excluding energy and food, rose 0.2%. On a year-over-year basis, consumer prices were down .2%.

Mitsubishi Rayon Company, Limited produces a variety of fabric, chemical, resin, and specialty products.
http://www.nni.nikkei.co.jp/e/fr/tnks/marketlive.aspx
The Company makes acrylic, polyester, and carbon fibers. Mitsubishi Rayon also manufactures plastic-based optical fibers and hollow-fiber membranes. The Company provides engineering consulting, develops information systems, and belongs to the Mitsubishi Group Kinyokai Association.

GE is partnering with Avic Systems to create new high-tech aviation equipment. The company needs 200 people to help make flight simulators, instruments and displays for the airline industry. Hiring should start next year.
http://www.wwmt.com/articles/michigan-1 ... -jobs.html
Tax credits are also headed to Consolidated Resource Imaging in Walker. The aerospace company hopes to expand and add 50 new jobs.

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/st ... y=BUSINESS

IMO Bear trap with my tin foil hat on...

http://kennystechnicalanalysisblog.blog ... oring.html EW count
Gordo
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:18 am

Re: Financial topics

Post by Gordo »

IMPORTANT: NEGATIVE DIVERGENCES ARE PILING UP!

1) More and more amateurs have been betting on a lower U.S. dollar and higher gold prices in recent weeks, especially following the media hype about gold's new all-time high, the U.S. dollar index has barely budged over the past month. Every time DXY goes below 75 you get a headline about it on DrudgeReport, and yet for almost a month, this has been a firm bottom, the failure to move lower despite all of the hype, media fanfare, and anticipation from mainstream dollar bears, is an important signal. DXY frequently falls below 75 in the morning as amateurs eagerly sell short the greenback; by the end of the day or the following day at the latest, it regains the 75 level as important buyers repeatedly step in. Since the financial markets love to move in the direction of least resistance, any repeated failed attempt in one direction will almost always lead to an attempt in the opposite direction.

2) From October 24, 2008 through September 4, 2009, gold mining shares substantially outperformed the price of gold bullion. Since then, gold mining shares have struggled while gold bullion has continued to make new all time highs. This is one of the best-established negative divergences in the financial markets, and is almost surely sending an important message. If gold mining shares are unable to respond positively to a new all-time high for the price of gold, then a sharp surge in the U.S. dollar index is just around the corner. This would explain why some of the world's wealthiest investors have been turning to the safe haven of U.S. Treasuries, as is evidenced by the bounce in TLT from its recent important bottom of 92.45 on November 12, 2009 (last Thursday).

3) TLT (U.S. Treasuries fund averaging 25 years to maturity), has been forming a bullish pattern of higher lows since June 11, which is more than five months ago. The normal historic pattern is that in advance of any stock-market downturn, U.S. Treasuries will move higher for a certain number of weeks in advance.

4) Fund flows show that amateurs have become increasingly eager buyers not only of gold mining shares, but to a lesser extent of general equity funds. Meanwhile, corporate insiders have recently stepped up the already accelerated pace of their selling relative to their buying, while the percentage of cash held by mutual funds has been sharply decreasing.

5) Looking at global currencies, even the mighty Australian dollar, which tends to be among the most aggressive in eagerly anticipating any wave of global economic expansion, has moved generally sideways since October 20, 2009. The Canadian dollar has been making notably lower highs, as have the New Zealand dollar, the South African rand, the Brazilian real, and many other currencies of countries which have a high ratio of commodities to people. The struggle for these currencies to make higher highs in what otherwise would appear to be a highly favorable environment is a notable negative divergence for both equities and commodities.

6) Semiconductor shares have become one of the most notable underperformers in recent months, which is significant since this sector has been a reliable leading indicator of the general equity market since the late 1960s. Today's closing price for SMH was 26.07, which is barely changed from its July 30, 2009 intraday high of 25.56. When an important leading sector has virtually no net change for 3-1/2 months, it is sending an important message.

7) The widening discrepancy between the S&P 500 and the Russell 2000 (RUT). While the S&P 500 is just below its 2009 zenith, the Russell 2000 is more than 4% below its annual high. Perhaps even more importantly, the S&P 500 has continued to form a pattern of higher highs in November, whereas the Russell 2000 peaked on September 23, 2009--nearly two months ago. If you look back to 2007, you will see that the S&P 500 completed its ultimate high on October 11, 2007, whereas the Russell 2000 touched its all-time high on July 13, 2007, just about exactly three months earlier.

8) VIX, a reliable historic measure of implied volatility, has barely changed since July 24, 2009 when it made an intraday low of 23.00. Historically, this kind of behavior for VIX usually precedes a double-digit pullback for most general global equity indices.

9) Junk bonds: This sector plummeted to a 75-year low in early December 2008. HYG is an exchange-traded fund in this sector for which yesterday's closing price exactly matched its intraday high of September 18, 2009, exactly two months ago. While HYG has only been in existence for a short period of time, a long-term chart of VWEHX shows that junk bonds tend to serve as a useful leading indicator for the general equity market. The flat performance over the past two months therefore qualifies as yet another important warning that the vast majority of the stock-market rally has already occurred.

10) Japan's Nikkei: it turned in a double-peak on September 10, at 10,513, and then 10,544 on September 24, that day the S&P 500 closed at 1,050. Note that the Nikkei is down 10% from the highs and in the past has proven to be a decent leading indicator.



None of these by themselves would be considered that important, but the combined weight of the above negative divergences add strong support to the thesis that we will begin a severe global equity bear market some time over the next several months (0 to 5 months most likely). This bear market will likely continue for two years, and will end with much lower lows than we saw in March 2009. The greater the number of increasingly negative divergences which develop, and the more historically dramatic their behavior, the more likely that the next equity bear market will be truly spectacular.
Last edited by Gordo on Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
freddyv
Posts: 305
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:23 am
Location: Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Financial topics

Post by freddyv »

Timothy Geithner got lambasted today by Rep. Kevin Brady, R-Texas:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1336191368&play=1



One of the things that amazes me about the Obama White House is how they act like children, blaming their parents for all their troubles, except in this case, George Bush is the parent and everything is his fault. True, W left them in a sticky situation but I don't recall Bush blaming the recession he inherited on anyone. He just got on with business and did his best.

Obama and his team seem intent on wrecking the economy to show how bad Bush did. What they don't realize is that they are hurting America and they are hurting their own reputation. I was hoping Obama would be a great president and now I see that he will likely be the worst, by far, of all American Presidents.

I give you credit, John, you have this generational relationship between Boomers and Gen-xers down pat.

--Fred
wvbill
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:46 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by wvbill »

Brady got it right... He deserves credit...

But, congress has to follow up and do something. Too often, they bitch (to look good to the public) but then do nothing. I hope its different this time. Pressure is building.

Thanks for the clip... I would have missed it -- I always mute the TV when Turbo Timmy is on. Makes me totally lose it... Would just like to wipe his snotty little nose and then slap the handcuffs on him... I'm getting pissed just writing this... Got to go.

Thanks,

Bill
Jack Edwards
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:47 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by Jack Edwards »

A great clip freddy.

I find the whole "you should resign because you're a failure thing" disengenuous though. Interesting how Geithner never really responded to the real root of the question - "we spent all this money on stimulus and we still have over 10% unemployement - what's the deal?!".

Right now, Obama still has a lot of support from the younger generation. Last night I was pointing out to my wife that based on the present unemployment level and the continuing job losses that are occuring, that when our son graduates college in 5 years - the unemployment rate is likely to still be over 10%. It will make finding a job after graduation difficult - and we may find ourselves having the kids around the house longer than we originally anticipated.

At some point - this blame it all on Bush thing is going to get old with everyone. At some point, enough young people won't be able to find employment. What will happen to Obama's or any politicians popularlity with them when that happens? Interesting times ahead.

Regards

Jack
reviresco
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:49 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by reviresco »

"A shocking crime was committed on the unscrupulous initiative of few individuals, with the blessing of more, and amid the passive acquiescence of all." Tacitus


With our stock, bond and other financial markets in the throes of algorithmic trading in pools both “dark” and clear, and behemoth positions are front run and exited in nanoseconds, we now learn that traders seek to apply these same strategies and mathematical engines to the commodities markets.

Would you agree that society has been injured by the trading programs affecting the extra market pricing of monetary instruments? What further harm may be expected as these same techniques are used to interfere in the pricing of food, fuel, and other basic goods? A world of plenty, priced injuriously via light speed manipulations? Manipulations, I might add, that have nothing to do with the efficiency of the targeted commodity market, and that will be carried out by entities that have no legitimate function whatsoever in the supply chain of the commodities whose values they will influence.

My worry is that “passive acquiescence” will ultimately yield when the basics of life are targeted for profiteering, lest private and public sector leaders “work out a mechanism to stabilize agricultural commodities prices” and the prices of other common necessary goods.


US Futures Markets:
In the Crosshairs of the Algorithmic Revolution
Executive Summary
The futures markets have a target on their backs, and a host of newer market stakeholders are taking aim. Beyond the demands of traditional futures players, electronic market makers, hedge funds, and long-only asset managers have been and will continue to forge strategies with futures woven into their core. Brokers, vendors and exchanges are meeting these accelerated demands with a spectrum of new solutions. While the outlook for overall futures volumes remains murky in the near term, the importance – and ultimately the volume – of futures trading among these non-traditional customer segments is set to grow over the longer term….
As adoption of automated futures trading increases, overall global volumes in these markets will increase as well. This growth will come in four distinct forms: expansion of strategies, user base, and products, as well as greater focus on risk management....
How quickly and to what extent this growth will occur remains to be seen, particularly in the aftermath of historic market dislocations. However, since trade automation is fast becoming a competitive necessity for all players and achieving consistent risk-adjusted returns remains a perpetual challenge, the inclusion of futures as a broader mainstream asset class is inevitable, and the use of algorithmic methods to navigate these markets is required....
http://www.tabbgroup.com/PublicationDet ... tionID=530
Source: Reuters
13/11/2009
Nov 13 - Volatility in food and agricultural commodities prices has become a permanent feature of global markets due to speculative trading, the chairman of the world's biggest food group, Nestle, said.
Food prices spiked in 2008 due to a rally in agricultural commodities, triggering riots in poor countries and panic buying in rich nations. Prices have fallen back since than but have remained volatile and are hovering well above 2006 levels. A long-term balance between supply and demand on grain markets, which had kept prices relatively stable over the past few decades, has been broken by increased consumer demand, especially in Asia, and by growing bioenergy demand, Nestle's Peter Brabeck-Letmathe said on Friday. Then speculative traders piled in and fuelled volatility, Brabeck told reporters at a private sector conference on food security ahead of a food summit in Rome next week.
"The market has become much more volatile, because you have so much speculation in it ... I think this has become a permanent shift," Brabeck said. He said it was up to politicians to work out a mechanism to stabilize agricultural commodities prices. "It would be very difficult to find a stabilizing system that can counterweigh this enormous amount of money that is coming into the market," he said referring to speculative flows.
A final draft declaration, expected to be signed at the summit next week and seen by Reuters, says world leaders will "consider non market-distorting international measures to mitigate the impact of food market volatility on the poor." It did not elaborate. The draft says the leaders will ask international organizations to examine "whether a system of stockholding can be effective" in dealing with price volatility and humanitarian emergencies -- an idea touted by G8 agriculture ministers earlier this year. French Farm Minister Bruno Le Maire said on Thursday the draft declaration was insufficient and that Paris wanted firmer proposals on regulating global agricultural markets. He cited development of future markets for those commodities that do not already have one, as well as the creation of regional grain stocks, as possible measures.
aedens
Posts: 5211
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by aedens »

reviresco wrote:"A shocking crime was committed on the unscrupulous initiative of few individuals, with the blessing of more, and amid the passive acquiescence of all." Tacitus

With our stock, bond and other financial markets in the throes of algorithmic trading in pools both “dark” and clear, and behemoth positions are front run and exited in nanoseconds, we now learn that traders seek to apply these same strategies and mathematical engines to the commodities markets.

Would you agree that society has been injured by the trading programs affecting the extra market pricing of monetary instruments? What further harm may be expected as these same techniques are used to interfere in the pricing of food, fuel, and other basic goods? A world of plenty, priced injuriously via light speed manipulations? Manipulations, I might add, that have nothing to do with the efficiency of the targeted commodity market, and that will be carried out by entities that have no legitimate function whatsoever in the supply chain of the commodities whose values they will influence.
My worry is that “passive acquiescence” will ultimately yield when the basics of life are targeted for profiteering, lest private and public sector leaders “work out a mechanism to stabilize agricultural commodities prices” and the prices of other common necessary goods.
US Futures Markets:
In the Crosshairs of the Algorithmic Revolution
Executive Summary
The futures markets have a target on their backs, and a host of newer market stakeholders are taking aim. Beyond the demands of traditional futures players, electronic market makers, hedge funds, and long-only asset managers have been and will continue to forge strategies with futures woven into their core. Brokers, vendors and exchanges are meeting these accelerated demands with a spectrum of new solutions. While the outlook for overall futures volumes remains murky in the near term, the importance – and ultimately the volume – of futures trading among these non-traditional customer segments is set to grow over the longer term….
As adoption of automated futures trading increases, overall global volumes in these markets will increase as well. This growth will come in four distinct forms: expansion of strategies, user base, and products, as well as greater focus on risk management....
How quickly and to what extent this growth will occur remains to be seen, particularly in the aftermath of historic market dislocations. However, since trade automation is fast becoming a competitive necessity for all players and achieving consistent risk-adjusted returns remains a perpetual challenge, the inclusion of futures as a broader mainstream asset class is inevitable, and the use of algorithmic methods to navigate these markets is required....
http://www.tabbgroup.com/PublicationDet ... tionID=530
Source: Reuters
13/11/2009
Nov 13 - Volatility in food and agricultural commodities prices has become a permanent feature of global markets due to speculative trading, the chairman of the world's biggest food group, Nestle, said.
Food prices spiked in 2008 due to a rally in agricultural commodities, triggering riots in poor countries and panic buying in rich nations. Prices have fallen back since than but have remained volatile and are hovering well above 2006 levels. A long-term balance between supply and demand on grain markets, which had kept prices relatively stable over the past few decades, has been broken by increased consumer demand, especially in Asia, and by growing bioenergy demand, Nestle's Peter Brabeck-Letmathe said on Friday. Then speculative traders piled in and fuelled volatility, Brabeck told reporters at a private sector conference on food security ahead of a food summit in Rome next week.
"The market has become much more volatile, because you have so much speculation in it ... I think this has become a permanent shift," Brabeck said. He said it was up to politicians to work out a mechanism to stabilize agricultural commodities prices. "It would be very difficult to find a stabilizing system that can counterweigh this enormous amount of money that is coming into the market," he said referring to speculative flows.
A final draft declaration, expected to be signed at the summit next week and seen by Reuters, says world leaders will "consider non market-distorting international measures to mitigate the impact of food market volatility on the poor." It did not elaborate. The draft says the leaders will ask international organizations to examine "whether a system of stockholding can be effective" in dealing with price volatility and humanitarian emergencies -- an idea touted by G8 agriculture ministers earlier this year. French Farm Minister Bruno Le Maire said on Thursday the draft declaration was insufficient and that Paris wanted firmer proposals on regulating global agricultural markets. He cited development of future markets for those commodities that do not already have one, as well as the creation of regional grain stocks, as possible measures.
They gunned the stocks up - castrated the shorts, blow out stops, and then back to business as usual. A maximal harvest, perfectly timed, and no one in the CNBC matrix seem to notice.
Waiting since the lines are drawn. http://www.zerohedge.com/article/grayso ... ist-voters
http://generationaldynamics.com/forum/v ... 2150#p4376
I think we already know who is acountable and now the taxpayer has no excuse other than stupidity.

Let us accustom ourselves, then, to avoid judging of things by what is seen only, but to judge of them by that which is not seen.
http://mises.org/articles.aspx?AuthorId=123
"The war which we must make against socialism must be one which is compatible with the law, honor, and justice."

Dumb money list is compiled, screwing their own constituents who will, in the end, pay the biggest price for the FED's destruction of the dollar as top to bottum blood pools clot from avarice- priceless libtards.

U.S. international portfolio investments increased from 2 percent to 29 percent of U.S. capital stock from 1974 to 2007. Stock up and plan for Stagflation. In the last few quarters as recorded we have lost roughly 2 points Global on GDP recorded in forums on PMI. Yea all the math does not add up IMO but we already know that anyway as compared to what? Things are moving slow but it is happening. Welcome to the 70's
Prices are reflecting harvesting issues not bureacratic ice picks interfering "more overhead" with prices which always ends bad we have seen.
On his trip to England in 1979, Deng Xiaoping learned why free economies were outperforming Russia and China, and he returned to launch the Sino-Capitalist Revolution which keeps astonishing the world even as faith in capitalism fades across much of the OECD. He had learned why Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea could keep creating jobs and wealth by rejecting socialism—whether on the Maoist, Bolshevik, or Indian models.

http://mises.org/Community/blogs/dp/arc ... indow.aspx

They see only what is immediately visible to the eye.
Politics in America is what it is as the world moves on. The democrats and republicans ignore reality.
Ignore facts long enough you can run for office and destroy the middle class.
Stock up and plan for Stagflation. They have as Washington does what? piss and moan about what? Wake up people...
I must admit they need to clean up water and air as ours need to spend per capita only and not kick the can on budgetary
acountability. Looking for a pivit point is apathy to change direction since we know how this going to end to date.

Anom:
Old man Bush got talked into a yacht tax by liberals . Hey , who cares if we screw the rich ..... Rich stopped all purchases of yachts in USA and some 50 boat companies ( mostly in Florida ) went under or relocated abroad . tens of thousands of jobs went POOF ..... it was so bad they rescinded the tax .
Guess what happened? Not a single company that relocated abroad ever came back I remember this effect since my best friend lost his work...
Dubai supposedly has a replica of our markets ready to switch on if demand was there ...... let US high freq traders either go under or move and guess what happens ?
Do any of you have any sense of history ?
This transaction tax is nothing but Intentional Wealth Destruction of the middle class and poor. The cost of Wall Street's own transactions will increase the cost for them of doing business. The cost of all those transactions will be passed onto us in addition to our own transactions, so we pay twice. Stocks are practically the only way we can increase our wealth. As a result of liquidity drying up, experts say the spread that we pay for stocks will increase to $0.53 per share. That is a 2% loss upfront on a $25 dollar stock. The loss in compounding is tremendous. Expect to lose one half of your retirement because of cost side effects of the transaction tax.

by Flyingtrader on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 15:02
1 contract of January soybeans = 5000 bu
Current price of January soybeans = $10.34
Notional value of 1 contract of SF =$51,700
1/4 cent profit on 1 contract = $12.50
FTT on my 1 contract trade @ .02% = $10.34
Of course, I'll end up paying this tax on losers as well.
Bye bye liquidity...

AGI tax is bad enough since tax is theft of future consumer demand. Local bond issues fund issuance. If all politics are local see what happens when Global parasites adhere, MORE WILL STARVE. Capital is scarce and the keynesians are always happy to manage your crisis. Like we said thieves and liars pool like blood so a jury can sort it out over time. Malinvestment has consequences. Ideological conditioning is lethal to many facets like your money confiscated from inflationary rhetoric on how they "care for you"
================================================================================================
Yet this Draconian taxation has not brought revenues to keep pace with ever more reckless government spending and schemes for redistributing wealth. The result has been to bring chronic and growing government budget deficits, and therefore chronic and mounting inflation, in nearly every country in the world.

但是,严苛的税赋并没有带来足够的财政收入,去满足重分配型政府诸多开支、以及诸多计划中的开支。结果是世界各国的政府都陷入长期的预算赤字和通货膨胀,并越陷越深。
aedens
Posts: 5211
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by aedens »

Gordo » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:08 am

IMPORTANT: NEGATIVE DIVERGENCES ARE PILING UP

I do not disagree. Given the Political Economy's attributes what vigalante will provoke the trapdoor.
Also, I would not disagree on the effects of gradualism pulling it under as undertow effects.
I think more people will vote there pocketbook given the inability of the Senate to avert crisis.
I seen Timmy get verbally accosted from the same Gentleman who was part of the problem also.
If we can keep CPI lazer focused at zero this will be the balance sheet kick that can repair
the moral hazzard dilution from pollution from the Leverages which triggered in my opinion there
predicated takeover until the Voter who is complicant by percentage as the Cult status of
crisis teams to whit to save the day in abject hyprocracy. I still feel inclined this ruse will be the
stain FDR needed and endured when the Court was impelled to defend the letter and the circular logic
these pragmatic ideological mutants carry's the day on the back of the people.
Already the left limply asserts the Independant's are spurious and lacking regard to spite the
the lucid bent of mind to trade reciprocity and per capita reality. Pragamatic solution's need press no further
than the elements of quantity and quality of no gratitudes but balanced policy aborted so very long ago.
Last edited by aedens on Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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