1-Oct-17 World View -- Catalonia referendum poised to go ahead despite Spain's harsh repressive measures

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
FishbellykanakaDude

Re: 1-Oct-17 World View -- Catalonia referendum poised to go ahead despite Spain's harsh repressive measures

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

Guest wrote:
John wrote:
Guest wrote: > This video warms my heart.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A92B6ps-Vk
> The pure are now pushing back.
So I guess you're looking forward to blood in the streets. Maybe a
few "pure" beheadings, rapes and massacres. I guess those warm your
heart as well. You must be in heaven.
"Aren't people just awful."

-Caligula
..Gort brings Klaatu back to life, but he explains to Helen that his revival is only temporary.

Klaatu addresses Barnhardt's assembled scientists, informing them that he represents an interplanetary organisation that created a police force of invincible robots like Gort.

"In matters of aggression, we have given them absolute power over us." Klaatu concludes, "Your choice is simple: join us and live in peace, or pursue your present course and face obliteration." Klaatu and Gort re-enter the spaceship and depart.
Unity does feel good. There is no denying that.

Unity does not imply fascism. Fascism is governmental institutionalization of master/slave relationships.

See the behavior, not the superficial symbol. While it is foolish to "pollute" your message with old prejudicial symbols, it is also nearly always simply an equivalent of flipping the finger at the oldsters.

When the young do it it is defiance. When the oldsters themselves do it, then those are the ones to monitor for master/slave promotion behavior, and when their actual behavior is truly "locally criminal" (criminal to the locals who they CLAIM as "their people"), which they eventually will be, they need to be tried to the fullest and "made pariahs to the locals".

All "games of chicken" (brinkmanship) in "devolution disputes" are tests to determine the relative strengths of the "single partyers" vs. the "local rights" LEADERSHIP PERSONNEL. The local population is the "measuring stick", and not "the players".

The Spanish "Single Partyers" (SPs) ["globalists"] are the anti-independence leaders, while the "Local Rights" (LRs) ["localists"] leaders are the independence seekers.

The LRs win, even if they lose, if they're martyred for the cause. Local identity is mightily hardened, which is the real goal. The LR LEADERS will have greater bargaining power with their "evil overlords", and the power of their local opponent, the SPs, is highly diminished as the "evil overlords" will not want to piss off the locals by supporting the SPs.

The masses, though FUELING the "desire for resource independence", will live with whatever the actual result of the pissing contest is.

Since there is no Gort, the SPvsLR tension will increase until the next contest.

Personally, I think a worthy Gort in the Spanish Government™ should have given Catalonia full and complete independence, MUCH more than they asked for, then given Catalonia great incentives to make money for Spain.

Would that promote "local rights" groups separating from their "mother" nations? Yes,.. which is the reason for the panic of the "mother" nations leaders (both Spain's SPs being motivated to "hold power centrally" and Spain's other LRs being motivated by jealousy of their now privileged "winner" LRs status).

But the point is that it's a game played out on the masses using the masses energy. It's a horse race! It's part of the cycle. There's nothing odd or unusual about it at all. It portends nothing, other than as a sign of the present point of the cycle. It's result is indicative of only that the cycle is not understood by anyone with any understanding as to what to do with that sign.

I laugh at California initiatives that want to break up the state. Attempts to do so are always on the wrong fault lines. I don't laugh at Catalonia, because the fault lines are ripe.

The result of the game is always some mixture of humor and blood. With no Gort, welcome to the game of Blood and Chuckles!
FishbellykanakaDude

Re: 1-Oct-17 World View -- Catalonia referendum poised to go ahead despite Spain's harsh repressive measures

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

Guest wrote:It looks like the two dueling parliaments have passed their two
dueling resolutions. Next week, the two "pure" sides will be at each
other's throat.


Do you think violent civil war is possible?
No. But "National Police on Local Police" violence is possible.

It's a party at this point. if the local population doesn't MIND being slaughtered, and the national police don't MIND slaughtering them, THEN there is a possibility of civil war (rather more by definition, than anything else), but "party time" tends to end when you find you don't have a bed to go home to to sleep it off.

The "existential anxiety" simply isn't there.
Evora

Re: 1-Oct-17 World View -- Catalonia referendum poised to go ahead despite Spain's harsh repressive measures

Post by Evora »

VIVA FRANCO wrote:It's all over except for a few doses of humiliation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8MWXTSh74M
Dear Spanish brothers and sisters, my deepest respects go to Francisco Franco, Emilio Mola, Jose Antonio and all of the other heroes of Spain. If you need any help to stop the rag-waving Catalan riff-raff, just give a shout and legions of men will join you.
Guest

Re: 1-Oct-17 World View -- Catalonia referendum poised to go ahead despite Spain's harsh repressive measures

Post by Guest »

I admire the Catalan movement's tactics: be patient.

Make a dictator act like a dictator. For the world to see.

Good job.
John
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Re: 1-Oct-17 World View -- Catalonia referendum poised to go ahead despite Spain's harsh repressive measures

Post by John »

Guest wrote: > It looks like the two dueling parliaments have passed their two
> dueling resolutions. Next week, the two "pure" sides will be at
> each other's throat.


> Do you think violent civil war is possible?
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
> No. But "National Police on Local Police" violence is possible.

> It's a party at this point. if the local population doesn't MIND
> being slaughtered, and the national police don't MIND slaughtering
> them, THEN there is a possibility of civil war (rather more by
> definition, than anything else), but "party time" tends to end
> when you find you don't have a bed to go home to to sleep it off.

> The "existential anxiety" simply isn't there.
I'm not so sure you're right about that. On referendum day, there was
a lot of unnecessary physical violence by the national police directed
at the Catalans. Video showed people being kicked and thrown and
women pulled by their hair away from the polling stations, followed by
reports of a general feeling in Madrid that "They deserve it."

And then we have a couple of comments in this thread seemingly
expressing the same attitude.

It's been 78 years since the Spanish Civil War ended. It's time for
the next round. And to those people hoping to see the Catalans
violently subdued, always remember the old saying:

Be careful what you wish for, because you may get it.
Guest

Re: 1-Oct-17 World View -- Catalonia referendum poised to go ahead despite Spain's harsh repressive measures

Post by Guest »

Evora wrote:
VIVA FRANCO wrote:It's all over except for a few doses of humiliation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8MWXTSh74M
Dear Spanish brothers and sisters, my deepest respects go to Francisco Franco, Emilio Mola, Jose Antonio and all of the other heroes of Spain. If you need any help to stop the rag-waving Catalan riff-raff, just give a shout and legions of men will join you.



You've got a couple ripe ones here...
FishbellykanakaDude

Re: 1-Oct-17 World View -- Catalonia referendum poised to go ahead despite Spain's harsh repressive measures

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

John wrote:
Guest wrote: > It looks like the two dueling parliaments have passed their two
> dueling resolutions. Next week, the two "pure" sides will be at
> each other's throat.


> Do you think violent civil war is possible?
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
> No. But "National Police on Local Police" violence is possible.

> ... if the local population doesn't MIND
> being slaughtered, and the national police don't MIND slaughtering
> them, THEN there is a possibility of civil war (rather more by
> definition, than anything else), but "party time" tends to end
> when you find you don't have a bed to go home to to sleep it off.

> The "existential anxiety" simply isn't there.
I'm not so sure you're right about that. ... Video showed people being kicked and thrown and
women pulled by their hair away from the polling stations, followed by
reports of a general feeling in Madrid that "They deserve it."

And then we have a couple of comments in this thread seemingly
expressing the same attitude.

It's been 78 years since the Spanish Civil War ended. It's time for
the next round. ...
I could easily be wrong, of course, as I have no good "existential anxiety" meter on the Spanish "sides".

My question is what will keep the resistance fires burning when the national authorities turn off EVERYTHING (power, water, finance, food, etc) within the rebel state?

Will it come from outside Spain? Will Catalonia go completely guerrilla rogue and mount an underground insurgency? Will the "youth" REALLY forego their "soft life" to live as post-apocalyptic zombie killers and Negan Army Unit (National Police) hunters, while their "buds" across the French border are instagraming them from the cafe?

Let's hear from some actual Catalans. I'll believe "it", whatever "it" is, when I see it.
Not a Catalan

Re: 1-Oct-17 World View -- Catalonia referendum poised to go ahead despite Spain's harsh repressive measures

Post by Not a Catalan »

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:My question is what will keep the resistance fires burning when the national authorities turn off EVERYTHING (power, water, finance, food, etc) within the rebel state?

Will it come from outside Spain? Will Catalonia go completely guerrilla rogue and mount an underground insurgency? Will the "youth" REALLY forego their "soft life" to live as post-apocalyptic zombie killers and Negan Army Unit (National Police) hunters, while their "buds" across the French border are instagraming them from the cafe?
If-IF-- Spain cuts off everything the Catalans will freeze, starve with children, and die because the medical system will collapse this winter; that will be tantamount to genocide. It will be impossible for the Catalans to ever live side by side with the Spanish again. Not even the crap eating and spewing EU will get away with supporting that because the European people will rebel against it. Let the Spaniards show their true colors.

The Catalans might be on to something here. I think time is on their side. And they know it.

Western Europe isn't Serbia or Russia. The common man in the west doesn't want the EU, and they certainly won't support genocide in Catalonia to maintain it (or for any other reason).
FishbellykanakaDude

Re: 1-Oct-17 World View -- Catalonia referendum poised to go ahead despite Spain's harsh repressive measures

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

Not a Catalan wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:My question is what will keep the resistance fires burning when the national authorities turn off EVERYTHING (power, water, finance, food, etc) within the rebel state?

Will it come from outside Spain? Will Catalonia go completely guerrilla rogue and mount an underground insurgency? Will the "youth" REALLY forego their "soft life" to live as post-apocalyptic zombie killers and Negan Army Unit (National Police) hunters, while their "buds" across the French border are instagraming them from the cafe?
If-IF-- Spain cuts off everything the Catalans will freeze, starve with children, and die because the medical system will collapse this winter; that will be tantamount to genocide. It will be impossible for the Catalans to ever live side by side with the Spanish again. Not even the crap eating and spewing EU will get away with supporting that because the European people will rebel against it. Let the Spaniards show their true colors.

The Catalans might be on to something here. I think time is on their side. And they know it.

Western Europe isn't Serbia or Russia. The common man in the west doesn't want the EU, and they certainly won't support genocide in Catalonia to maintain it (or for any other reason).
I, personally, am (nearly always) on the Local Control side of things, which is why, if I was "Spain", I'd grant Catalonia their "chosen devolved status" and do everything I could possibly do to help make Catalonia make as much money for Spain, and themselves of course, as possible.

But,.. since it's doubtful that Spain is "as smart" as I am <cough!>, we shall have to see what happens.

We'll also see what the "youth" and the "oldsters" have to say, respectively, about EU unity, as I get the distinct impression that most of the "youth" are die hard unity supporters, whilst about half the "oldsters" are unity supporters.

I could be wrong, again, though.
Guest

Re: 1-Oct-17 World View -- Catalonia referendum poised to go ahead despite Spain's harsh repressive measures

Post by Guest »

The President of the Republic has fled the country and is hiding out in Belgium with most of his cabinet. So much for the revolution..
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