Financial topics

[vincecate]

Not a chance.

Just to clarify, I did not exactly mean "never goes down", I just mean we might never get 20% lower than the current S&P or Dow Jones numbers. I expect the market to crash, but I think there is a chance that they could print money so fast that it never goes much lower than the current level in nominal terms. In real terms I am much more confident of a crash.

[aedens]

Just wait and see.

[gerald]

Did any body see this?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/ ... 0T20120810

Are these two comments valid?

From http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/20 ... arning-fed


comment #1 not in order on posting site

Your money isn't yours anyway. Once it leaves your possession it belongs to the brokerage house!

More from Ann Barnhardt who has been warning about this for months.


Do you remember how I told you about the Ponzi scheme that imploded in 2007 called "Sentinel Management Group" that stole over $500 million in customer funds? The NFA was the auditing regulator of Sentinel, and the NFA admitted after the Sentinel Ponzi imploded that they signed off on their audits even though the NFA claimed not fully understanding Sentinel's books or accounting methods. In other words, the NFA didn't really audit Sentinel at all - they just PRETENDED to audit them, drew up some forms, had some robosigners sign off, and then just hoped that when the shit hit the fan, everyone in the industry would be so terrified of the NFA that no one would hold the NFA accountable for their criminal malfeasance - or even talk about it.

Sentinel took customer segregated money and fraudulently used it as the collateral on a loan from Bank of New York Mellon for $312 million to fund their own in-house proprietary trading operations. When the Sentinel Ponzi collapsed, BNYM sued to go to the front of the line of creditors - ahead of the customers of Sentinel whose money was fraudulently used as collateral, which has now been "linguistically sanitized" into the word "hypothecated".

The federal appeals court ruled yesterday that not only does BNYM stay at the front of the line, but that using customer segregated funds as collateral is NOT a crime, and that co-mingling customer segregated funds with proprietary funds is NOT fraud.

Here is the Reuters piece.

Read this quote from the ruling, which is, in essence, the entire financial market paradigm being guillotined:



That Sentinel failed to keep client funds properly segregated is not, on its own, sufficient to rule as a matter of law that Sentinel acted ‘with actual intent to hinder, delay, or defraud' its customers.
U.S. Circuit Judge John D. Tinder
What this means is that even if Jon Corzine is somehow dragged into court by private citizens, because you know damn good and well that the Justice Department will never, ever touch him, Corzine now has a legal precedent, likely from a bribed or otherwise coerced Federal Appeals Court, explicitly stating that an FCM can use customer deposits to pay its debts, and that the customers themselves are subjugated and have basically no legal right to their own monies, no matter what the law says, or what legal assurances, claims or guarantees are made to that customer about their funds held with an FCM or any other brokerage or depository institution. The "secured" party at the front of the line will always be the mega-bank who made the fraudulent loan using the stolen customer funds as collateral.

In other words, all customer funds in the United States are now the legal property of JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, BNYM, or whichever megabank is the counterparty on the loans the FCM or depository institution takes out in order to fund its mega-levered proprietary in-house trading desks.

For the love of God, I don't know what more there could possibly be to say to snap you people out of your normalcy bias trance. You have GOT to get ALL MONIES out of the financial system NOW. This ruling sets precedence for every depository institution, not just futures brokerages. It is now legal in the United States for any financial institution to steal customer funds, borrow money against those funds for the uber-levered proprietary trading use of the financial institution, and the customers have ZERO CLAIM TO THEIR OWN FUNDS once they are in the custody of the financial institution.

The court has ruled that once your money passes out of your PHYSICAL POSSESSION, and I mean PHYSICAL possession, it is no longer yours, and you have no legal claim or legal recourse to it when it is stolen. This includes BANK ACCOUNTS. Money in a bank is in the possession of the BANK, not you. Do you comprehend this? The entire system is utterly devoid of any integrity or genuine security and is breaking down catastophically before our very eyes. You HAVE to comprehend that your money sitting in an account is no longer legally yours. You have to force your brain to process and comprehend this, no matter how incomprehensible it may seem. IT IS OVER. This is Marxist hell. We have arrived.

This ruling and precedent will be used by every brokerage, every bank, every insurance company and every pension fund to deny you your money when the financial system finally collapses, be it on Monday, or be it two years from now.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

You have GOT to GET OUT.

#2 posted after the above comment

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Sat, 08/11/2012 - 16:52 | 2697796OldE_Ant

I want to add to the above comment. Having traded KCG (KNIGHT) for some profit I received an e-mail pointing me to the following:

https://materials.proxyvote.com/Approve ... 138173.PDF

This document basically tells KCG longs that due to the emergency nature of the situation that KCG bypassed existing law, got the SEC to go along with a rules change and voila - longs are completely screwed out of any rights to vote down the 'deal' managment made. The SEC is even complicit in helping KNIGHT out in the whole thing. You want to screw your shareholders - sure - as long as you cover that $400M in trading costs.

Consider if KNIGHT didn't have squat for capital and went BK. What do you think would have happened to all of the trades it did? (i.e. the real stock, and money they supposively paid). The money and stock associated with all of the trades would have be locked up in court for a few years while everyone tried to figure out what happened. I think this was the sole reason NYSE backed out a certian number of trades (simply because KNIGHT could not have come up with ALL the money and would have went BK).

If KNIGHT went BK and a whole slew of transactions went into court land this would have caused major market havoc as people would then realize a simple fact. There are certian players in the market who can not just create 'virtual shares - naked shorting' but can also create 'naked cash'. KNIGHT did just that. They had 3 days to fill this gaping hole or face a serious threat to the system, hence players came out of the woodwork to 'save KNIGHT'. Actually they saved their own asses - probably because a lot of the trades KNIGHT executed were with those same players algos.

In short while you may think when you execute a trade that someone actually has stock or cash, (like buying a car) they don't. They have NOTHING, zero, ZIP, NADA and for 3 days you have zip, ZERO, NADA but HOPE. What is worse is when push comes to shove according to the above court ruling anyone with money in these things will find they have nothing left, or it will be tied up in court until worthless.

This means not that are markets are broken, they are fricking DANGEROUS and HAZARDOUS to your wealth. I feel more confidant sitting down at a poker table in a casino than putting my money in a brokerage account, 401-K etc. these days.

End of Line

[aedens]

page 624 pine away
also H covered this to our overall common man status again clarified.
http://generationaldynamics.com/forum/v ... tus#p10661

[John]

From August 2007:

** Sentinel Management files for bankruptcy
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 20#e070820


** Redemptions of money market funds now fully in doubt
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 15#e070815


On the day that Sentinel announced that it would stop redemptions,
I posted a number of quotes from experts on CNBC that day:

• "You just have to ride it out."
• "Investors are nervous and irrational."
• "The Fed has to cool things down -- relax all the animal spirits
  out there."
• "The underlying economy is one of the strongest in history."
• "Everyone's waiting for fundamentals to come back in
  line."
• "There's still plenty of money sitting on the sidelines waiting
  to come back into the market."
• "Things will be back to normal in the fall."
• "It's just like 1998 or 1987 - it will pass quickly."

I don't know about all of you, but it makes me want to vomit.

[aedens]

That would consume to much energy to them. They simply are not worth it. Noted was just disconnect.

Civilization cannot be put back into order by seizing political power or by attacking it, but by moving away from it, by diverting
our focus from marbled temples and legislative halls to the conduct of our daily lives.
And so, we are not to live as those who have no hope.

Voters are to stupid to save themselves in and of percentages.

[aedens]

The mouth is still closing. As the report indicated the leverages are just plain insanity.
One hell of an over bite as they walk away on our dime as taxpayers and IT acounts.
http://cybercemetery.unt.edu/archive/fc ... t_full.pdf

[Higgenbotham]

The court has ruled that once your money passes out of your PHYSICAL POSSESSION, and I mean PHYSICAL possession, it is no longer yours, and you have no legal claim or legal recourse to it when it is stolen.

Collateral held against Federal Reserve notes 1,074,524
Gold certificate account 11,037
Special drawing rights certificate account 5,200
U.S. Treasury, agency debt, and mortgage-backed securities pledged (1,2) 1,058,287
Other assets pledged 0
1. Includes face value of U.S. Treasury, agency debt, and mortgage-backed securities held outright, compensation to adjust for the effect of inflation on the original face value of inflation-indexed securities, and cash value of repurchase agreements.
2. Includes securities lent to dealers under the overnight securities lending facility; refer to table 1A.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/Current/

When the money gets into your physical possession, this is what you have. Note the use of the phrase "face value".

I don't know about all of you, but it makes me want to vomit.

Looking at what I just posted, I'm feeling a little queasy myself.

I'll leave this post up.

[Reality Check]

...

I don't know about all of you, but it makes me want to vomit.

Looking at what I just posted, I'm feeling a little queasy myself.

I'll leave this post up.

I am not sure what everyone is so worried about.

The Obama administration, using the authority granted to the administration by the Dodd-Franks legislation, has taken decisive action to ensure that a banking disaster never happens.

Article describing these, until now, apparently secret plans, are revealed in this news service report: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/ ... 5N20120810

Now both the ongoing banking crisis, and the ongoing health care crisis, have been solved during Obama's first term

So nothing to worry about.

[aedens]

Fighting the last war are we padawan. Study the period when viatical fraud was negated on OTC and the period.
I guess you missed the memo that treasury and the banks are the same terminal now and you are not.
http://www.secreceiver.com/advancedfina ... epartners/#
He just may be getting out of prison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja3LGFY1 ... re=related
The point was his attitude and conditions of the book we open. The broker who was working for us in this instance
and us would of carried our own contract forward but he had another idea which as you can see was a poor choice.
We got our capital back and warrants. The Feds had another idea on how they wanted to handle it. We did have
a recourse but would not submit our position. In the end the Judge agreed with our specific view of the contract.
Would I construct another OTC contract as a CDO or similar? Since, did they redefine equity, doubtfull, but we
already had that discussion on terms of House and Equity.

The basis of the ruling is this.

Earlier surety for the enforcement was free man becoming no man, of "whatever estate or condition he may be"
and introduced the phrase "due process of law" for "lawful judgement of his peers or the law of the land"
So what rights do investors have since they are which class in true contextual reality.
So called unique allures and variety of strategies.

Caveat emptor was first laid down as a principle in United States law in 1817, in a decision written by Chief Justice John Marshall for Laidlaw v. Organ.

OTOH : As far as I've seen the actual plan they came up with has never been published. Let me be the first: The Fed prints a whole lot of money and gives it to the big banks so they don't collapse. See the banks have it all worked out. They forgot to put in a plan for a drought but you can't get everything right. A question I've not seen addressed so far, what happens if the rains don't return next year? It may have been a tactical mistake for them to take on the unofficial title of 'Master of the Universe', it may have provoked a response. ty d/f Best comment all week I seen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkAfl2Rm ... re=related