Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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Bob Butler
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

JCP wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:40 am
Militaries are working class institutions. Anyone who has served in a combat unit will tell you that. The leftist woke ideology is just destructive. No military can survive, yet alone fight a war effectively after it has been demoralized and gutted. There are patriotic Americans, but they are being actively villianized as I write this. CNN and the BBC will never understand that it is dangerous to put society through a cultural revolution--the Chinese openly regret it now--but to do this to your own military is to invite defeat and subjugation by your enemies. The road we are on now has only one direction.
Now I haven’t dived into what makes one ‘woke’. To me, the basic concept is not new. You treat others politely, as you would like to be treated by your own. The early Christians had one of their primary commandments to love your neighbor as yourself. They told the parable of the good Samaritan at a time most Jews did not feel well towards the people of Samar. If two cultures did not like each other and were ready to fight one another, that would be the Jews and Samaritans. Think of… xenophobia. I believe the folk here should be familiar with the subject matter.

Now JCP’s post seem to say the military and the working class need xenophobia continuing in order to function effectively as a military. I doubt it. I do not doubt that many here believe it. If many in the working class and military treat people decently, they are not social justice warriors enough to loudly proclaim themselves woke.

Do you have to hate minorities, to feel domestic xenophobia, in order to be a decent soldier? I doubt it. If folks wish to elaborate on it, kindly do.

There is also a claim that a cultural revolution is dangerous. Oh, I would agree that Mao should have listened to the experts rather than come up with red theories. Still, a core of turning theory is that the crisis will come and society becomes better by enduring the crisis. The culture is improved by embracing the solutions to the crisis problems.

Convincing conservatives? Unlikely. They are seemingly committed to the old values.

Old soldiers never die. They just fade away.

But there recently have been times when John described himself as neanderthal. It wasn’t a word I would have chosen, but I went along with it. The idea behind it, however, wasn’t a joke. He embraces an outdated mode of thinking. It is a hallmark of the crisis heart and later the high that the values will change and the old way of looking at things abandoned.

I think it was Shelby Foote who interviewed a descendant of Confederate General Bedford Forrest. He contrasted Lincoln and Forrest as the two great geniuses who best embodied the two cultures of that time. He may have waxed poetic a bit much. The response? “We don’t speak of That Man.”

One can cling to an old dead idea for a long time.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

Let's just say that after the recent murders around Atlanta, I am still not impressed by those who are centered on and promote xenophobia.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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** 17-Mar-2021 World View: Anti-Trump xenophobia
Bob Butler wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:56 pm
> Let's just say that after the recent murders around Atlanta, I am
> still not impressed by those who are centered on and promote
> xenophobia.
Yeah, it seems likely that the killer hated the 74 million Trump
supporters as much as you do, and thought that the Asian women
liked Trump.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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John wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:22 pm

Yeah, it seems likely that the killer hated the 74 million Trump
supporters as much as you do, and thought that the Asian women
liked Trump.
Now that is neanderthal thinking!

It used to be, before the Southern Strategy, that the Democrats had the racists and the Republicans had the elites. You had an unfortunate choice. Nowadays, the Republicans have both the racists and the elites. It isn’t much of a choice. The Republicans stick it to the working man as many minorities are working people, and shift the wealth to make the wealthy wealthier.

There is much in conservative thought that is worthy if you could disassociate from those two things. Unfortunately, you can’t. As Trump found his way to be xenophobic, frankly racist, against blacks, browns, asians, frankly against anyone not like him, so too the Atlanta killer. Perhaps after this crisis being accepting and conservative at the same time will be possible. You ought to embrace the shift.

But it is ever so human to cling to one’s worldview, to not learn, to not change. You are likely stuck a pariah forever.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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** 18-Mar-2021 World View: Atlanta killer's ideology

It seems most likely that the Atlanta killer was a Democrat, since if
he were a Republican then that would have been gleefully reported by
now by the mainstream media.

So the most relevant previous comparison was the June 2017 incident
when a Democrat tried to kill as many Republicans as possible at a
baseball game practice.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-his ... eball-game

First, the Democrat asked a passerby whether there were Republicans on
the baseball field. Then the Democrat started shooting at all the
Republicans, trying to kill as many as he could. The Democrat ended
up wounding Steve Scalise and four other Republicans. Presumably, the
Democrat hated Trump and his supporters.

So that seems to be the most likely antecedent to the Atlanta
situation.

There's a lot of hatred directed at Trump supporters these days. I
always think of Maxine Waters shrieking like the Wicked Witch of the
West that Republicans should be confronted and threatened. More
recently, Biden provoked anti-Republican hatred by suggesting that
they're Neanderthals. Democrats spew hatred at Republicans by
censoring and attacking them just for expressing an opinion that male
and female are different genders. And you personally have spewed a
great deal of anti-Republican hatred.

With all this hatred by Democrats directed at Republicans, it's not at
all surprising that any Republican, especially any Trump supporter,
could be the target of an angry gun-toting Democrat, just as Steve
Scalise was. It's dangerous to be a Republican today, with all the
crazy Democrats walking around. That's doubly true with violent
antifa-blm fascists running around, and being actively supported by
Democrats. The families of Fox News reporters are particularly being
targeted.

Right now it seems that the Atlanta shooter's motive was that he is
obsessed with Asian women, and that the shooting has nothing to do
with ideology. I can believe that, since I've known a couple of guys
who were super-obsessed with Asian women (not wanting to kill them,
just date them). But if the Atlanta shooter's motive turns out to be
ideological, then it's most likely that he's a crazed Democrat who
hates Trump.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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2017? You had to go back that far to find an incident? They mention 3,000 incidents of Asian xenophobia in last night’s MSNBC coverage. By far most of the victims had nothing to do with the CCP’s poor decisions in the early part of the pandemic. When you encourage bunches of people en mass, there will be a nut among them that acts with no respect to the reality.

The Atlanta shooting has much to do with xenophobia, less with ideology. Unfortunately, Trump embraced xenophobic white supremacy organizations, racists, such as the Proud Boys. Racism has been part of the Republican ideology since the Southern Strategy. You have to be very careful to support the respectable aspects of conservative thought without being tainted by the racist and elitist allegiance. Not all conservatives are.

There are times when the progressive mentality of the Democrats goes too far. In theory I can sympathize with the independent fix it yourself attitude of the rural population as a balance against the specialization more commonly found in cities. Government can get too big and too corrupt.

But a lot of the Republican thing these days is domestic xenophobia. Those that push that idea deserve to be on the losing side of a crisis. I can respect certain aspects of conservatism. Respect racism and elitism? No way.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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** 18-Mar-2021 World View: Anti-Asian hatred
Bob Butler wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:45 am
> Unfortunately, Trump embraced xenophobic white supremacy
> organizations, racists, such as the Proud Boys. Racism has been
> part of the Republican ideology since the Southern Strategy. You
> have to be very careful to support the respectable aspects of
> conservative thought without being tainted by the racist and
> elitist allegiance. Not all conservatives are.
This paragraph is a total piece of garbage, typical of you, and
typical of the vitriolic hate spewed by you and other leftists. You
can't cope with facts, so you're reduced to this kind of bigotry.

The 3,000 incidents you're talking about were not mass shootings.
That's why I had to go back to 2017, to another mass shooting.

-- There were 3,800 anti-Asian racist incidents, mostly against women,
in past year
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-amer ... t-n1261257
(NBCNews, 17-Mar-2021)

I saw Kimmy Yam on MSNBC this morning, and she said that these
incidents have been going on since the 1800s, and they're rooted in
fetishes about Asian women. As I said, I believe that's true since,
as I said last time, I've known two guys who were obsessed with Asian
women.

People like you blame these incidents on Trump with no evidence
whatsoever. You people just make up facts as you go along, and never
apologize when you're proven wrong, but just go on to the next lie.
Almost nothing you say is worth listening to.

So there's been an increase in these incidents because people blame
the virus on the Chinese. But that's not Trump's fault. People blame
the virus on the Chinese because the Chinese are to blame. It's that
simple. People blame the Chinese because the Chinese were responsible
for infecting the world with the virus, while protecting themselves.
The Wuhan Coronavirus didn't come from a flying saucer. It came from
Wuhan China, possibly from the Wuhan Virology Lab.

American attitudes toward the Chinese have been getting more negative
for decades, especially since the Tiananmen Square massacre, but
including many incidents since then, such as annexing the South China
Sea and cracking down on Hong Kong. I wrote an article about this:

** 30-Jun-19 World View -- MIT criticizes 'toxic atmosphere' targeting Chinese students
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e190630



The Wuhan Coronavirus was just one of the most recent acts by the
Chinese Communist Party that have provoked anti-Chinese hatred. And
incidentally, it's even worse in Australia.

I blame the CCP for all of this hatred. And it's going to get a lot
worse, just as it got a lot worse for the Japanese during WW II.

If the Asian community wanted to reduce anti-Asian hatred they would
launch an educational advertising campaign with the following message:
"We Asian-Americans are just as appalled as other Americans by the
vicious actions by the CCP in Xinjiang and Hong Kong, and expecially
in infecting the whole world with Wuhan Coronavirus. But please don't
blame us. We're as much victims of the CCP as all Americans are."

But of course they won't do that. Like all leftists, instead of
criticizing the CCP, they'd rather criticize Americans. And they
wonder why Americans don't like them.

In the meantime we have hate-filled bigots like you who take every
opportunity to spread racist garbage against the people you hate most,
the 74 million innocent Tea Partiers and Trump supporters. Your
xenophobia is the worst of all. Your attitude is just as bad as the
attitude of the person who shot Steve Scalise.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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One phase of the prejudice against Asians was banning women immigrating from China. The Chinese builders of the railroads were kinda frustrated. This was not originating from an obsession with Asian women. It grew out of xenophobia. You seem to believe Xenophobia grows under your bed much of the time, except when it comes to yourself.

Trump and the CCP both did poorly in the early days of the virus. Both used the same tactic, directing attention away from their own failings by blaming the other. That this drove up xenophobia did not concern either of them. Me, regardless of where the virus might have originated, follow the science rather than encouraging hate. Encouraging hate is just counter productive.

There is absolutely no evidence of the Wuhan Virology Lab being involved. Your tendency for bat-logic without evidence reflects horribly on your supposed judgement.

I do disagree firmly with racists and elitist tendency in the Republican Party. No apology. Again, since you are lacking the ability to comprehend motivations of those you disagree with, it is not conservative thought I dislike. For example, VoteVets and the Lincoln Project seem to be doing much good work these days. However, the establishment wing of the party is with the elites, cutting taxes to the rich, sending jobs abroad, and in general working against the working class. Trump collected the racist vote. Those two can be spoken against with a clear conscience.

Hatred? It is a little colder than that. I dislike racism and the division of wealth. I see the crisis as going a long way towards making racism a losing tactic for collecting votes, though the division of wealth is not a primary issue at this time. Note how desperate the Republicans are to suppress minority votes, to cling to power a little longer. The clock is ticking on the division of wealth too, but not yet. Perhaps next awakening or crisis.

But it is more the triad perspectives of culture / turning / age with the tribal thought vs WEIRD, Roundhead vs Cavalier, and nature of the human mind to defend and justify the way it has chosen to perceive the world. I focus on many things while you are into tribal thought. History is going in a certain direction. You seem to be determined to go over the cliff.

My dislike of the division of wealth and racism is as bad as someone who goes around randomly shooting Republicans? Bat logic. Neanderthal thinking.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

** 19-Mar-2021 World View: Violence against Asian Americans

As usual, everything you've written as a lie. I don't expect you to
apologize since Democrats lie constantly and never apologize, but just
go on to another lie. So you'll have to find something else to lie
about.

In January, the National Institutes of Health used data from the
Department of Justice to "examine the nature and characteristics of
hate crimes against Asian Americans." The report compared hate crimes
against Asian Americans, African Americans, and Hispanics.

The most important finding of the report is that perpetrators of hate
crimes against Asians are most likely to be blacks. This is something
that's been known anecdotally for a long time, but the NIH report
confirms it. It's also clear that the writers of the NIH report don't
want you to easily find this result, probably for fear that if they
expose the truth, they'll get fired or canceled by the Stalinist
Democrat Party regime.

You have to go far into the report to find the results (search for
"Table 3" or "Findings of this study, however, also provide support to
the minority-specific model"), but the findings are clear:
  • Hate crimes against Asians are overwhelmingly done by blacks.

    "Hate crimes against Asian Americans are more likely than hate crimes
    against either African Americans or Hispanics to be committed by
    non-White offenders."
  • Blacks may be motivated by their resentment of the success of
    Asians.

    "This finding may be attributed to animosity toward the “model
    minority” from other minority groups. As aforementioned, the “model
    minority” stereotype assuming Asian Americans’ success in economics,
    education, and other opportunities generates potential competition or
    threats by members of other racial groups, which in turn may lead to
    resentment to be further acted upon through hate crimes."
  • Blacks may be motivated by fears that they'll lose their special
    privileges and financial welfare and other benefits because Asians
    will get the same benefits during downturns.

    "Offenders of other minorities of color targeting Asian Americans
    might fit the category of “reactionists." ... Instead of acting
    impulsively, the “reactionists” are motivated by protecting their
    resources from competitors.... This finding might also lend indirect
    support to the perspective of racial competition motivating hate
    crimes, which argues that when members of a racial group perceive that
    their access and privileges to material resources are threatened by
    other racial groups during economic downturns, racial conflict and
    hate crimes may occur."
Although all three of these reasons apply to Black Lives Matter (blm),
the third reason seems to me the most relevant of all:
  • The increase in hate crimes against Asians in 2020 was not
    caused by Trump, but was caused by blacks fearing that they'll
    get less welfare payments, and Asians will get more.
  • The attacks by antifa-blm fascists, burning down and trashing
    small businesses, may have been specifically an attack on Asian
    owned businesses.
So you're right that the attacks were caused by xenophobia and racism,
but it's the xenophobia and racism of you and the other Democrats,
especially blacks, especially the antifa-blm fascists.

The article by Michelle Malkin referenced below provides multiple
examples of hate crimes against Asians by blacks, probably all
Democrats.

Reading through the news stories of that Atlanta shooting, you can
almost see the frustration of the writers that they can't find an
angle to blame Republicans. By this time it's almost certain that the
Atlanta shooter was a Democrat, probably a supporter of Black Lives
Matter.

The Democrats wanted slavery to continue, they formed the KKK to
lynch, torture, beat and rape blacks for a century, they continued the
enslavement of blacks by making sure that black families have no
fathers, they formed hate groups to target Tea Partiers and Trump
supporters, they're packing thousands of children crossing the
southern border into packing crates, and forbidding reporters to see
the insides, and now it's clear that the Democrats are forming hate
groups to target Asians. It's good that you dislike xenophobia and
racism, because it's you and the Democrats who are the worst examples.


---- Sources:

-- Hate Crimes against Asian Americans
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7790522/
(National Institutes of Health, 7-Jan-2021)

-- Asians: Stop blaming Whitey
https://norfolkdailynews.com/commentary ... 12012.html
(Michelle Malkin, 10-Mar-2021)

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

I acknowledge that some xenophobia against Asians comes from the ghetto mindset. I will oppose that much as I oppose other forms of xenophobia. Thing is, the Atlanta shooter was not black. Yet as you admit, it was xenophobia and racism. If it was not due to jealousy of the Asian status as a model minority, it must be of some other source.

Trump’s references to the Wuhan Virus or the China Virus are one obvious yet unproven source.

I see the ghetto mindset as a flaw in the culture, a problem to be solved, not as another excuse to develop one’s xenophobia. I realize that as a tribal thinker it is your habit to hate and misunderstand those that are different from you. You seem to be stuck with neanderthal thinking. But as usual I am for fixing the problem rather that embracing hate.

***

I trace the two cultures as cavalier, confederate, Jim Crow, red - the rural racist faction - as opposed to roundhead, union, blue - the urban equality faction. When LBJ and MLK allied during the last civil rights movement, and when Nixon and the Republican responded with the Southern Strategy, the two major race relationships with their respective parties switched. This was natural for a progressive party, to side with equality. The Republican response seems inevitable with hindsight. I will say much positive of the Republicans and abolitionists of the Civil War period, less so today.

Pretending to be an expert on history, you ought to be aware of this. Perhaps you should stop pretending, and admit you are just another partisan hack?

I will note that those who shoot up bars, drive cars into crowds, shoot paintballs into protesters, plan to kidnap a governor or invade the capitol are not your average conservatives. They are willing to go beyond talk and dedicating their lives to an obscure website. You can call them nuts if you like. Anyway, the Atlanta shooter has the option to join them.

If you are obsessed with and an advocate of tribal thinking, you can count on your message reaching a nut. If you are into hatred of those who are different, if you refuse to listen to and misrepresent those whose opinions differer from yours, you are in part responsible for what the nuts pick up and act upon.

Fine. Advocate for the Atlanta shooter. The blood is on your hands too.
Last edited by Bob Butler on Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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