Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

My other thought was it will be promptly be parked in a ditch.
And we can only depend on those who can see. As we sense
we can only forgive what they ignored.

Plague of locusts if you keep score on whats left that can define economy in the true classical sense.
More may understand only the wicked walk in circles from St. Augustine if they survive.
The brand today cannot see. On way to see it also is how many live on dirt floors that is now impossible
to survive as free men. I have a few very deep in the science of our time
and now they understand what hope defered means.

aedens wrote:My other thought was it will be promptly parked in a ditch.

I don't think there's a lot of time left. I think it is on the order of months now, maybe 3 years at the very best before the lights go off in Washington and never come back on. We're likely getting to the "all at once" stage you talked about. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. These are not smart people. Temporarily powerful yes, smart no.

aedens wrote:Plague of locusts if you keep score on whats left that can define economy in the true classical sense.

They only know how to milk it, not fix it. There is a difference between clever and smart. When clever becomes a positively viewed attribute, it's game over.

Higgenbotham wrote:

aedens wrote:Tainter was right ...

You guys have connected something up in my brain that I hadn't thought of.

I remember seeing a documentary a long time ago that showed a primitive tribe that was living in the jungle. Part of the discussion was about where this tribe came from. Well, it turned out that the tribe was descended from the people who were part of the Mayan civilization, the people who were prescient enough to see that the Mayan civilization was going to collapse and escaped into the jungle before it did. It was said that those were believed to be the only survivors of the Mayan collapse.

As we look at the recent news, we can see that the crisis is not going to be precipitated by the authorities this time around. We're too deep into it and the authorities around the world are working together against their enemy, which is not a rival country, etc., as it has been in the recent past. It is the elite of the world against the common people of the world.

What will cause the collapse this time, as it did in the distant past, is when the people of the world "Go Galt" as the survivors of the Mayans collapse did. When the oppression gets to the breaking point, first a trickle as we are seeing now, then enough to break it down, which would probably take around 2% of the most prescient and productive citizens (that would be approximately enough to take GDP growth down to zero and then it's game over).

jcsok wrote:Of interest for those that don't read The Market Ticker by Karl Denninger, he has posted that he will no longer feed the pig; he intends to generate no economic activity to pay taxes. Somewhat of a John Galt move, although he won't be disappearing.

This is likely the only thing that will stop the pig from eating you. As I've stated previously, "You cannot reason with psychopaths period." Red or blue, makes no difference.

from my Oct. 2nd post ---

Re: Financial topics
Postby gerald » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:35 am

Economist Karl Denninger has gone John Galt. http://www.silverdoctors.com/karl-denni ... john-galt/

"I refuse to continue to silently accede to, and actively fund through my drive to acquire that measured in and rewarded by “wealth”, the rampant theft and fraud that has and continues to take place in the economic sector, especially in the banking and health care areas of our economy. None of this could ever exist except through the insertion of the guns of government up the noses of the American people.
I can no longer live with being one of the better sources of funding for these abuses. This decision did not come lightly, easily or quickly. But I’m convinced it’s the right choice as things stand today.
In short, if you want it in two words, it’s this: I’m done."

"I therefore choose to reduce the ability of our government to tax my income to as close to an effective zero as I can reasonably achieve in keeping with what I enjoy doing,


The whole post is an interesting read
from the comment section ------------

AGXIIK says:
October 1, 2013 at 10:00 AM
On a small note, I know exactly what Karl is talking about. Recent actions speak to what Karl’s made abundantly clear.
My business footprint is down well over 80%, largely by intention with taxable income reduced by same; now at the SCREW YOU UNCLE SAM LEVEL OR LOWER. Zero income taxes paid in 2013.

hmm --- how much of this kind of action has impacted the general economy?
Pump priming by the government has accomplished what? How many commentators have asked the question, Why has the economy been so anemic and for so long? -------- Is the above a major contributor? hmmmmmm?
gerald
--------------------------------------------------------------
Higgenbotham : I think you have a very valid point regarding going Galt, A very small percent of the population in the world makes things happen ( that is being productive and creative in a positive way ) when they quit, most of the masses will not know what to do, they are lost, and the leaders in positions of power do not fully understand the importance of these few, who many times are treated like dirt. Also there is another important issue which is very difficult to measure and very difficult to force out of the producers, and that is, ideas which are never expressed or implemented. -------------------- This all leads to a collapse.

However, there may be a joker in this game, and that is a secret advanced hidden technology where the "elite" push for a collapse, to cull the herd.

gerald wrote:However, there may be a joker in this game, and that is a secret advanced hidden technology where the "elite" push for a collapse, to cull the herd.

I think it would be virtually impossible to both cull the herd and keep the current system intact enough to hold power. The population has to grow in order to hold the current structure in place, as it as designed that way, to be consumption based. Stupid as these people are, they do know this much, as we see the RINOs push for immigration and Pelosi talk about how food stamps are keeping this economy going. They are right about that.

I was thinking about this general problem earlier today. Centuries ago, repressive elites could force lower consumption on people and not get hurt too much. Today, the Dow 30 corporations who sell to the man on the street (that I posted charts of last weekend) would probably go under if the population were culled even 10% and the whole debt based money scheme would collapse. The elites derive their power from the existence and use of token money that they can tap into as needed. Just having a monopoly on violence isn't enough.

Push a socialist hard to the true answer and let me know since we do.
Survive has many definitions so lets focus on currency for now
since the taxpayer will understand the rest soon enough.

As for the margin level and nominal growth the consumer will decide not washington.
They can beat, fine and what ever three letter department all they wish, stupid passes
in the dust bin of history as will they. No reason to think badly of them since pity should suffice
in the postion they garner and words. Day one on fundemental change was only the sealed
cannot see this. Markers are everywhere since Carter was in office and deficits do not matter
maniacs we knew the boat was leaking badly.

Higgenbotham wrote:

gerald wrote:However, there may be a joker in this game, and that is a secret advanced hidden technology where the "elite" push for a collapse, to cull the herd.

I think it would be virtually impossible to both cull the herd and keep the current system intact enough to hold power. The population has to grow in order to hold the current structure in place, as it as designed that way, to be consumption based. Stupid as these people are, they do know this much, as we see the RINOs push for immigration and Pelosi talk about how food stamps are keeping this economy going. They are right about that.

I was thinking about this general problem earlier today. Centuries ago, repressive elites could force lower consumption on people and not get hurt too much. Today, the Dow 30 corporations who sell to the man on the street (that I posted charts of last weekend) would probably go under if the population were culled even 10% and the whole debt based money scheme would collapse. The elites derive their power from the existence and use of token money that they can tap into as needed. Just having a monopoly on violence isn't enough.

True -- but one way is to have a plague that the "elite" are immunized for, that way they kill off the "useless eaters", can restructure the world, and keep all of the assets. Yes, I know that is twisted, but then so are the "elites"

aedens wrote:Survive has many definitions so lets focus on currency for now
since the taxpayer will understand the rest soon enough.

Whoever could get a hold of enough gold and issue gold based money when the token money goes away might have some chance of retaining power. I kind of doubt it could happen for some years after the collapse because the scale of collapse that would lose the token money system would be large enough that surpluses will disappear and there will be no use for money in most places, only barter. In a barter system, the political system would become local. All politics is local when all economics is barter.

democide is the number one killer in the four layers.
gold, silver, barter, debt serfs as we already are

gerald wrote:True -- but one way is to have a plague that the "elite" are immunized for, that way they kill off the "useless eaters", can restructure the world, and keep all of the assets. Yes, I know that is twisted, but then so are the "elites".

Basically for the first time in history the elites have figured out how to use token money to profit from having a lot of "useless eaters" without having the work of turning them into slaves. As I've heard it stated recently, "We've grown on the backs of each other; there was slavery everywhere until recently." True, and I think what changed that was an energy supply that could be pumped out of the ground that substitutes for human energy that was formerly slavery. And now instead of having slaves, the elites can keep the nonproductive population as pets and cycle the token money from the QE machine to the various welfare programs and back into their pockets.

The bigger and more complex the system is, the more the elites can skim and the less they have to work, which is what they like.

aedens wrote:They can beat, fine and what ever three letter department all they wish, stupid passes in the dust bin of history as will they.

This is all they know. They don't know much about barter and breaking kneecaps when necessary to keep the locals in line. In addition, we could be reverting back to a time when nobody lives much past the age of 40 or 50. That's happened in parts of Russia, where the average lifespan has fallen to 47 years (in the most depressed areas, not the country as a whole).