Financial topics

[John]

Streaker-Demonstrator in Athens



http://www.euronews.com/picture-of-the-day/2012/10/10/

[Reality Check]

Spain's CREDIT RATING was cut by two notches to just above Junk Status.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/ ... MM20121010

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 22647.html

[aedens]

Stalins view moving forward. 'perestroika' meant 're-shoeing' - as of a horse: that is to say, not of the regime itself, but of the system's means to consolidate its power. Mastery of human consciousness should be a paramount political objective. As Richard Pipes has pointed out [in 'Survival is Not Enough', Simon and Schuster, New York, 1984, page 80], 'such mastery is secured, in the first place, by control of the organs of information'. The objective is 'to control thought at the source - that is, in the mind that absorbs and processes the information - and the best way of accomplishing this is by shaping words and phrases in the desired manner'.
Moreover control of the Western mind is to be achieved not only by means of the dishonest use of language, but also through operations to demoralise the West - through corrosive attacks on society's institutions, the active promotion of drug abuse, and the spread of agnosticism, nihilism, permissiveness and concerted attacks on the family in order to destabilise society. Religion and the traditional cultural and moral hegemony must first be destroyed, before the revolution can be successful The still unproven assumption of the strategists is that with Western society 'deconstructed', its leaders will meekly accept and cooperate with the Soviet plan for a 'New World Social Order', or World Government. In this context, it is interesting to recall that the spy George Blake told Kenneth de Courcy in the early 1960s that 'individual choice would eventually be mastered by a central Soviet control of thought process' [cited in 'Traitors: The Labyrinths of Treason', Sidgwick & Jackson, London, 1987, page 157]. The primary objective of 'perestroika', then, is to restructure the Western mind using both deceptive language and the ideas of Gramsci so that it becomes more receptive to, and more inclined to collaborate with, the implementation of Soviet global strategic objectives. As one of the leading strategists, Georgi Arbatov, made clear in his book 'The System' [Random House, Inc., New York, 1992, page 211], the ideas of Gramsci and other Marxists, whose work seeks to 'restructure' the Western mentality and to promote decadent lifestyles, had been consciously incorporated into the 'New Thinking': Western acceptance of the new "liberalisation" as genuine would create favourable conditions for the fulfilment of Communist strategy for the United States, Western Europe, and even, perhaps, Japan... Euro-Communism could be revived. The pressure for united fronts between Communist and socialist parties and trade unions at national and international level would be intensified. This time, the socialists might finally fall into the trap. United front governments under strong Communist influence might well come to power in France, Italy, and possibly other countries. Elsewhere the fortunes and influence of Communist Parties would be much revived. The bulk of Europe might well turn to left-wing socialism, leaving only a few pockets of conservative resistance.

I ask Politically correct people to leave my home since I know who invented it, do you? You have two choices and one leads to utter darkness and no light at the end of the tunnel. You are already in hell if you do not know the difference. Triffin understood mechanisms but forgot to you all your slumber will lead to your dirt nap and all you cherish as posterity with it. This is more than read and blue kids since a stateless global archipelago of privilege will see to it. Greece is our destiny as it should be, and I say freedom to the people to decide on the division of labor since you owe your employer no gratitude but a defined quantity and quality of work as free men or things you are unwilling to read will be the end of you and your kind. Indeed greece is stripped bare John for free men to decide the means of production. pill is corrrect "The problem is not just a handful of government villains, the problem is US, the weak and complicit electorate we've become, and a pale shadow of the steel-balled patriots that made this country possible to begin with. If we want to go on a witch hunt for an evil nemesis, we should begin by looking in the mirror." Take two and call me in the morning. As we also know when the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic Franklin warned since also we know that no thought of recompense other than the goodwill of the community can sustain prosperity and freedom.

[aedens]

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/10/10 ... in-ankara/

Rope burn from old hands

[Trevor]

They might have been downgraded, but I don't see any major spikes in the bond yields. Of course, the IMF is now saying that Spain is going to contract far more than was previously estimated.

http://www.eitb.com/en/news/detail/9670 ... -forecast/

[Reality Check]

They might have been downgraded, but I don't see any major spikes in the bond yields. Of course, the IMF is now saying that Spain is going to contract far more than was previously estimated.

Yeah. I noticed the same.

Of course, rates were already between 5% and 7% before the credit rating deduction on Wednesday.

They say anything over 5% is unsustainable for Spain.

Euro Zone leaders have made several promises of doing "whatever it takes" to save Spain and Italy. The "magic bailout" promises.

Maybe the bond buyers still believe in the tooth fairy as well.

Credit Rating agencies obviously do not, if Spain's rating just dropped two notches to the last notch before receiving a junk bond rating,
and Spain is on a negative watch to actually go to junk bond status within the next 3 months.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/ ... MM20121010

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 22647.html

[OLD1953]

It's not the site's fault, but about half my postings die before getting here. ExPat life can just suck. Networks here have constant faults.

It seems to me that discussions of trade have always centered on some ideal form of trade where everyone wins. That would only be possible in a perfect world with no graft or corruption and where natural resources are infinite.

In the real world, I can't think of any long term trade relationship in the modern world where some party or parties didn't wind up beggared in the process. This is because the real world can't manufacture a ton of cars with a ton of steel, there are losses. When the cars are shipped, not as many arrive as were put on the boat. When they get to the destination, there are protectionist inspection fees and similar barriers, and then bribes and graft and venial officials come into play. The people supplying iron ore eventually run out of iron mines. Real world trade requires a loser or losers as we see in the US now, as we see in Greece and the other PIIGS, as we will see in any such relationship over time. It isn't always the same countries, and the results are different in every case, but there's always a winner and a loser. It seems as if a major sign of losers is rapid growth in social programs to mask the fact that trade relationships have turned so that the country in question is the goat. The social programs would not be needed if the country was truly prosperous and would not be much used. I don't see social programs as a cause of negative economic numbers, but a result.

If the US is to avoid the abyss we've been circling for the last five years, we need moderate tax increases coupled with moderate budget cuts, to push the deficit downwards. Moderate is the key word here, the great tendency is to run amok hacking and slashing and raising taxes hugely, making no sense, Congress is infamous for this. But the matter can't be put off any longer or we go down that drain hard.

[Reality Check]

we need moderate tax increases coupled with moderate budget cuts

That is not quite correct.

Moderate government revenue increases coupled with moderate budget cuts might make what ever is going to happen slightly less bad.

Tax rate increases and real tax revenue increases are not the same thing. Income tax revenue are the product of the income being taxed and the tax rate. Unless income rises and rates also stay the same or rise, there is no guarantee tax revenue will increase at all. Of course if the government starts using confiscation of assets as a "tax revenue source" this would increase revenue until the assets were either removed from the country or forfeited to the government to the point "tax revenues" decreased.

But the problem that has often been identified here is that the U.S. private debt bubble, the U.S. government debt, and the U.S. government annual deficit spending are all so extreme, moderate anything is simply not going to avoid the big, bad thing that is going to happen.

We are, in fact, far beyond moderate, which is why the Central Banks of the U.S., England and Great Britain, are printing money out of thin air at a frantic rate and the Euro Zone portion of Europe is promising to do the same.

The main disagreement on this forum is when is the big bad economic crisis going to happen, and will it be a great depression, hyperinflation or both. Or will a war, that kills Billions of people make the economic problems irrelevant before the big bad economic disaster lasts long.

[Reality Check]

we need moderate tax increases coupled with moderate budget cuts

Moderate budget cuts. As in the government spends slightly less dollars this year, than last year. Would in fact be massive, draconian budget cuts if hyperinflation was taking place.

[Reality Check]

we need moderate tax increases coupled with moderate budget cuts

Moderate income tax rate increases. Would in fact be massive cuts in tax revenue to the government if they occurred during a great depression where everyone's income was drastically cut and a super majority of the citizens did not even make enough income to pay any income tax at all.