Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

Guest from the UK wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:14 pm I have been a faithful reader for about 20 years, and although I once commented (on a ID I forgot); I would like to record my displeasure with Bob Butler’s dominating the discussions over the past few days. A little self restraint on his part would be appreciated as I miss the wiser discourse that takes place when the forum is not interacting with him.

King regards,

Guest from the UK

Understood. A few less people addressing me by name would be welcome.

People have different worldviews. There is a temptation to assume that one's own way of looking at things is the only way that can be backed up by logic and fact. Well, no. There seems to be a refusal here to stretch out to other perspectives. When they can't grasp another way of looking at things, they will repeat endlessly their own perspective, insult or otherwise go crazy.

This can certainly be overdone.

Bob Butler wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:51 am
I see you found nothing in the Bill of Rights. There is no guarantee that you will never be on the loosing side of an issue?

There is nothing in the Bill of Rights about having to pay for illegal immigrants (or for any other governmental social program).

Bob Butler wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:51 am The steady state handling of the problem is being unbalanced lately by the Texas governor bussing the problem rather than trying to solve it. Yes, the victim cities need help. The federal government will have to bus resources from somewhere. Perhaps Texas?

I fully agree with spottybrowncow in that Abbot has found a great way to put the financial burden on the cities whose policies are a major factor in creating this mess.

The problem is that we are out of resources. We are already almost $30 Trillion in debt. The only way to get more resources is to borrow more. You and other liberals seem to think that this can just go on forever. Well, it can't. And as interest rates go up and governments cannot pay even the interest on their debt, we are all going to go through an economic depression that will make 1929/30 seem like the "good old days".

Bob Butler wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:04 am Navigator has been one of the few that has been regularly contributing ideas and focusing on the problem. Even Navigator did not respond to any of the points i made in the prior post. The ridiculous comment seems more typical, addressed to me and like the above comment contributing nothing to the issues being discussed. It should cease. Answering comments on an issues with insults and attacks is all some people seem capable of.

I can respond as long as you make an actual point or case. I cannot respond to vagaries or incomprehensible muddles.

John wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:30 am Monday September 12th, 2022

analysts from multiple media sources are expressing shock and surprise with how successful lightning strikes by Ukrainian forces over the weekend have recovered so much territory in Northeast donbas. as hundreds of Russian troops are being withdrawn, some analysts are even suggesting that Russia's army is collapsing.

it appears that Russia is moving its troops South, to defend Mariupol and other Southern cities in case Ukrainian forces attack there.

whatever happens next, it now appears that the Ukraine war has taken a decisive turn in Ukraine's favor, at least for the time being.

The only way out for the Russians after the immediate debacle months ago was to mobilize reservist infantry to fill out the Russian units. This was necessary as the Russian forces that went in were basically just the operators of the vehicles. There was no infantry to put protective "screens" around the armored vehicles, and the Ukrainians had a field day with modern anti-tank weapons.

Putin seems completely unwilling to mobilize. Sure, they have shanghaied lots of unwilling young men from the breakaway republics, and then given them outdated weapons and no training, but this obviously didn't do it.

As this goes on, the Russians are getting more and more demoralized. At this point, the Russian Army does need to disengage to reorganize and recover.

Putin may be thinking he can turn the tide by imposing economic pain on Germany, but this isn't going to provide his forces with the infantry they need.

The longer this goes on, the higher the likelihood that the military is able to work out some kind of coup to take Putin out. Then we will probably have a competent military leader in charge of Russia, someone who will mobilize and refit/reorganize the Army to punish Ukraine and those that aided them. Yes, an even more nationalistic leader than Putin.

Meanwhile, NATO is moving towards serious infighting. The Poles recently told the Germans they want at least a Trillion$ as compensation for WW2. So now the Poles and Germans are going to have another argument, while neither has the wherewithal to heat homes as it gets cold.

Then there is the distinct possibility of Turkey starting an actual war with the Greeks.

To top things off in Europe, the Italians could actually return to Fascism, while Sweden may become embroiled in domestic political turmoil even before they can join NATO.

As a "I told you so", I am seeing more and more articles about the US and NATO being desperately short of ammunition, and without the ability to replace the shortage for years, as everything is being sent to the Ukraine.

Cool Breeze wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:52 am

Guest No 3 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:46 am This coming from someone who believes that vaccines are part of a global conspiracy and that the Russians are the good guys.

If you don't know that the so-called covid vaccines are bad for people and don't work, you don't pay any attention to data, or facts.

I don't say the Russians are good guys, but I do say the Russians are acting in self defense after years of belligerence from other governments who are much worse.

The years of belligerence are on the Russians: Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine

Don't forget Taiwan and Iran-Israel, Navigator!

Tom Mazanec wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:24 pm Don't forget Taiwan and Iran-Israel, Navigator!

Nor the Chinese economic implosion nor third world famines.

Navigator wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:18 pm As a "I told you so", I am seeing more and more articles about the US and NATO being desperately short of ammunition, and without the ability to replace the shortage for years, as everything is being sent to the Ukraine.

Meanwhile, the IRS is allegedly stockpiled with ammunition.

Navigator wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:15 pm

Tom Mazanec wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:24 pm Don't forget Taiwan and Iran-Israel, Navigator!

Nor the Chinese economic implosion nor third world famines.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAD684eczq8[/youtube]

Navigator wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:00 pm

Bob Butler wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:51 am
I see you found nothing in the Bill of Rights. There is no guarantee that you will never be on the loosing side of an issue?

There is nothing in the Bill of Rights about having to pay for illegal immigrants (or for any other governmental social program).

The short form for democracy goes something like “the will of the majority checked by the rights of the people”. The Bill of Rights focuses on the rights of the people. The will of the majority is covered more by the bulk of the original constitution where the powers of government and ability to pay for it are enumerated. States and cities run much the same.

Over the years, what government can pay for has expanded. There is an interpretation that since you can collect funds you can spend them. As a result the power to spend money has expanded to cover more than the enumerated powers. You can spend on anything. Less than optimal. A problem even. The original founders for some reason did not mention a word about building airports, regulating flights, or going to the moon, yet we do those things. States and cities have even less enumerated powers. They are sovereign. There are no lists of what they can do generally.

I have thought of going back to the enumerated powers list, but the difference between the modern day and what the founding fathers thought of is a bit big. It would seem to require a constitutional convention, and we seem too divided for that.

But the basics is that the “will of the people” is determined by the majority. If you are in the minority on this, you cannot override the majority’s will. That just would not work.

Now some service provided by government are self funding. It is common to pay for town water by the gallon, and to pay for drivers licenses. You could set up a branch of government, similar to the Red Cross, which provides food and shelter for those in need. You could pay to fund this organization by volunteering funds. This could be done, but for the most part the sanctuary cities have not set it up that way.