Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

Contrarianoutlook wrote:

JULLIEN1 wrote:

You can be a Nazi and a Christian: Goering and the conservative Nazis were. A religion as Christianity is very flexible, you can use it in every cultural context including Nazism. For example Himmler believed in the Aryan Christ theory (i.e Jesus as a blue-eyed blond Aryan who for some mysterious reason lived among the murderous Jews).

Then you need to read some history, Himmler stated himself that the goal of national socialism was to destroy the poisonous cancer the jewish religion of christianity had infected the previously pure Aryan People. The National Socialists used christianity for propaganda reasons, but the ultimate goal of the nazis was the eradication of christianity. this is also shown in the Movie "Das Boot" as the nazi youth bully the ONLY christian boy serving on the submarine.

Himmler speculated a lot of bullshit, but his view on christianity is Clear if you take the time to actually read history, more specifically the writing by the nazis themselves and not books by historians With obvious political agendas. Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile" you would have us believe the nazis embraced christianity? Ludicrous as is it preposterous.

It is funny how you People don't seem to understand that movements and political parties can lie in order to achieve political goals, the nazis stated themselves that they were not christian in their internal writings and documents even though they pushed that relationship between christianity and national socialism publically, and I know there were a few officers that actually bought the bullshit, but Himmler, the example you yourself used was not that stupid and he knew where he wanted to take the New Reich which was elimination of jewish christianity and revival of thule/ostara theology.

from --- http://wilsonquarterly.com/stories/the- ... -crescent/ --- The Swastika and the Crescent

The most intimate insights into Himmler’s attitude toward Islam are given by his doctor, Felix Kersten, whose notorious memoirs devote an entire chapter to Himmler’s “Enthusiasm for Islam.”.

According to Kersten, Himmler saw Islam as a masculine, soldierly religion, telling him in late 1942:

Mohammed knew that most people are terribly cowardly and stupid. That is why he promised every warrior who fights courageously and falls in battle two [sic] beautiful women. … This is the kind of language a soldier understands. When he believes that he will be welcomed in this manner in the afterlife, he will be willing to give his life; he will be enthusiastic about going to battle and not fear death. You may call this primitive and laugh about it … but it is based on deeper wisdom. A religion must speak a man’s language.

Tehran’s ambassador demanded a clear statement that Iranians were considered racially related to the Germans. A year earlier, Riza Shah had ordered that his country be called “Iran” instead of “Persia” in international affairs — the name “Iran” is a cognate of “Aryan” and refers to the “Land of the Aryans” — and Iranian officials made no secret that they believed this term useful given that “some countries pride themselves on being Aryan.

Well it was a lot easier to pretend that Nazis were not Christians until George Bush came along. Then Christian America embraced Nazi techniques and didn't even blush. George Bush had no problem at all leading people in prayer at the same moment he was causing thousands of innocents (Islam innocents) to die in bombing raids that had a few percent chance of killing a guy he wanted to die (I am thinking of the "shock and awe" campaign where whole blocks of residential neighborhoods were destroyed on the off chance that Sadam might be there. That's Christian! Or when he prayed with grieving war mothers in the white house at at the same time men were screaming in his torture chambers. That's Christian though and through. Calvin isn't called "man burner" without cause! Americas prisons aren't packed with hundreds of thousands of innocent people because Christians don't need to demonize the innocent.

I got a good piece of advice when I was a young man. "If you are ever homeless, what ever you do, don't seek shelter in a church---because that will get you beat up the worst." And I believe it.

Frankly, now that we have the George Bush experience under our belts, you know--- genuine Christian leadership, with our own torture chambers, our own concentration camps, our own Gestapo, and whatever other horrors (thankfully, no known death camps yet--except in Iraq and Afghanistan), it might be that we should stop demonizing the Nazis since the two things are so similar!

outraged wrote:Well it was a lot easier to pretend that Nazis were not Christians until George Bush came along. Then Christian America embraced Nazi techniques and didn't even blush. George Bush had no problem at all leading people in prayer at the same moment he was causing thousands of innocents (Islam innocents) to die in bombing raids that had a few percent chance of killing a guy he wanted to die (I am thinking of the "shock and awe" campaign where whole blocks of residential neighborhoods were destroyed on the off chance that Sadam might be there. That's Christian! Or when he prayed with grieving war mothers in the white house at at the same time men were screaming in his torture chambers. That's Christian though and through. Calvin isn't called "man burner" without cause! Americas prisons aren't packed with hundreds of thousands of innocent people because Christians don't need to demonize the innocent.

I got a good piece of advice when I was a young man. "If you are ever homeless, what ever you do, don't seek shelter in a church---because that will get you beat up the worst." And I believe it.

Frankly, now that we have the George Bush experience under our belts, you know--- genuine Christian leadership, with our own torture chambers, our own concentration camps, our own Gestapo, and whatever other horrors (thankfully, no known death camps yet--except in Iraq and Afghanistan), it might be that we should stop demonizing the Nazis since the two things are so similar!

same old same old -- organized religion is a mind prison for the benefit of the few -- for example --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Tibet

Pre-1950 Tibet has been described as a society in which the concept of human rights was unknown:[9][10] it was ruled by a theocracy,[11][12] beset by serfdorm and a form of slavery,[13][14] had a caste-like social hierarchy,[15] lacked a proper judicial system[16] and enforced penal mutilations.[17] However, it is claimed that capital punishment and mutilation decreased considerably with the increased influence of Buddhism.
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Isn't humanity just grand --- try to find any society that at one time were not butchers
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The Iroquois, ( North American Indians ) for example, are well known for their incessant warfare and their training of males to be immune to pain. They are also well known for their merciless treatment of prisoners of war. Captives were forced to run a gauntlet, their fingernails were pulled out and their limbs hacked off, and they were finally decapitated or roasted alive at the stake – after which their remains were consumed in cannibalistic feasts.

Marvin Harris, Cannibals and Kings: The Origin of Cultures, Glasgow, 1978, p. 69

By the way, suppose you were King of Europe. What would you do? Deport all the Muslims? Lock them up in camps? Close the borders to Syrian women and children fleeing starvation and bloody massacres? Sink their boats and let them drown in the Mediterranean? What would you do, and why would what you would do be better than what the neo-Nazis would do?

If i were king of Europe, end programs and incentives which draw people to Europa, and focus instead on growing our own population over many generations through subsidies. I'd use forced repatriation of the alien populations to any nation that would take them.

John wrote: Islam is just as much a religion as Christianity is. Or, if you like, Christianity is also just an ideology, in view of Christian Nazis who killed Jews and other Christians, or Irish Protestants who killed Catholics.
[...]
Why would such temporal differences exist?

John, like others I highly value your work and insights but I think you are missing something about Islam.

Islam is both a religion and a political system. Other religions are just religions. The other religions to not include a form of government or political ideology, at least not now. There is a clear separation of church and state, except in the case of Islam. Political systems mean laws, courts, force, and punishment. Political systems control all people in some terrotory, not just believers. In most religions the most serious punishment they would do is excomunication or shunning and that only to followers. Islam's Sharia law specifies death for all sorts of things for both followers and non followers. About the most agressive thing we outsiders ever see from other religions is a friendly Mormon or Jahova's Witness knocking on the door. There is a non-zero chance that some Muslim sees something I post on facebook and decides to kill me. This is very different, at least to the current versions of other religions.

I think the reason there is a temporal change in the Christians and not in the Muslims is that while the Bible is older and written in a language that few people today can read, the Koran is in Arabic which a high fraction of the followers can read today. So while it is easy for people reading the Bible to think, "something got twisted in the translation" and not take it literally with the Koran there is no such out. So it is much easier for Christians to adapt over time to modern views.

I recommend this video that is available by torrent:
Islam - What the West Needs to Know

The ideology in the Koran is a plan to conquer the whole world. The goal is complete control by Sharia law of the whole planet. Making lots of babies and harassing non-muslims in an area with lots of muslims is a method of taking over territory gradually. It works. Intimidating people so they don't critisize Islam is part of the system.

It has grown to over 1 billion people and it is growing fast compared to the West. Long term there is a chance that it does take over the world (I don't really think so, but the trend is there). If so, it would not be as nice a world for free thinkers or women.

We used to talk of a "Cold War" that did not have as many deaths most years as Islam inflicts on the West or the West inflicts on Islam.

My one big hope comes from the Internet and the Streisand Effect. My hope is that the Islamic method of silencing critics by killing some of them no longer works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

while it is easy for people reading the Bible to think, "something got twisted in the translation" and not take it literally with the Koran there is no such out.

It is also true that there are fewer words in Arabic and that many words that spell and sound alike have different meaning depending on the context of how they are used, so a simple Koranic phrase can be translated to mean more than one thing depending on if the context is omitted or not. This is one of of the things ex-Christian Shia author Reza Aslan discusses in his book "No god but God".