Most Australians believe we are already nuclear. Its just a well kept military secret.Guest wrote:Australia will probably just go nuclear and mount weapons on its submarines.
1-Dec-13 World View -- Obamacare: 500M lines of code, $500M
Re: 1-Dec-13 World View -- Obamacare: 500M lines of code, $5
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NoOneImportant
Re: 1-Dec-13 World View -- Obamacare: 500M lines of code, $5
While you can't be positive, this appears to be an instance of what has become one of the standard approaches to dealing with troubled SW development. That is: the thing doesn't work, and things are looking bleak... what do you do? Simple, if you don't understand how SW is stitched together, and designed - you just throw cash at the problem. The mentality is: if it takes one woman 9 months to create a baby, and you need a baby in one month, what do you do? You just hire 8 more women, and viola, you put 'em all to work, and out pops the baby in one month... or so the inept thinking goes. Alas, like all custom SW development, that just isn't how things work – as John noted, the bearer of bad news to those who think they can “command” the existence of software, the messenger, always gets executed (fired).
The Healtcare.gov type of SW is, in the main, custom - that is, it has to be designed; and the chance of it working increases when designed by someone who knows, and understands the boundary conditions necessary for system operation, eg. how many users will be supported at any given time; how much storage is require, and where it's to be logically, and physically located; how the storage access is to be distributed - so that users get a reasonable response time -; how is the compute load to be distributed, physically, and logically; how will the system deal with heavily loaded conditions - simply grind to a halt, or blow users off by telling them to come back later -; can what is being designed be scaled easily (made larger easily, with the expectation that the larger version will also work) - the hardware and SW necessary to handle 1500 users is not the hardware and SW necessary to handle 20k simultaneous users; how is the load to be distributed to the available hardware/SW as user demand increases; is transaction logging/archiving necessary - more storage, more time. All of these, and other requirements are unique to each system being developed. While all interactive systems have some commonality, each system in development is custom and unique, understanding, of course, that all systems use off-the-shelf Databases, and other "canned" SW.
The end result of the unique nature of individual "troubled" systems is that you can have "super" people - the A-team, if you will - and when put on a distressed project, the fact is that they are not like painters, they don't just grab a brush, and start painting. The fact is, on the front end they can't do much as they know almost nothing about the system's design. With SW development new people are a burden, and for a period of time contribute little as there is a finite period of time required for them to "come-up-to-speed" and be of any meaningful use on the troubled system's design and implementation. More people, and more cash just won't make it instantly any better – no matter what the little Red in the WH might want, or say - it's the reason that life experiences are so vital. The "education" task, when adding people to a troubled project, is in itself a problem. The difficulty is that much of detailed documentation that may exist are often almost useless as they were usually done on the front end when it was perceived that there was lots of time – and now that things have been frantic for a while most things have been altered/changed. How things are to be designed, and are supposed to work lives, in the main, in the heads of those working on the distressed project, as, because everything is behind schedule, there is no time to document or update anything except databases, file structures and data definitions - the stuff actually used by all the programs. That means that the worker-bees have to be taken away from the already distressed task to answer the questions of the newly arrived A-team who, while bright and experienced, don't know squat regarding how this particular distressed project has been designed and is supposed to function. Essentially, at least on the front end, the A-team not only doesn't help all that much, but the necessity to "educate" them detracts from the labor being directed to the distressed task. Ruffled feathers – personalities - may in fact cause some of the informed to use the opportunity exit the “pressure cooker” and up and quit, taking with them a treasure trove of undocumented information. – don't think I was ever on a project that had realistic time/delivery goals, you just worked through the issues until testing said it was functional, eg. fast enough and reliable enough for extensive testing.
Judging from the contract awards - http://about.bgov.com/2013-10-24/late-i ... -law-woes/ - this project didn't appear to actually get started in earnest until roughly March of 2013. (Need to be aware that this article's author was at one time a speechwriter for Geitner, and a medical adviser to HHS – not sure what that means, but it makes me question everything - could be a whistle blower, could be providing cover.) Can't be sure, but it looks as though, from the contracts, that somebody figured that they were going to throw together a system in a year or so in 2010, and 2011, then in late 2012, and when reality set in in March of 2013 it led to the standard uninitiated response to a troubled project - throw money at the problem. As John explained in the article there are problems that money just can't instantaneously fix. Given time - something Obama doesn't have -, a functional design - something that can't be reasonably assessed given the volatile political nature of the issue, and the propensity of those in this administration to simply lie, distort, and deceive - and capable people there is the prospect that this problem can be fixed - eventually. Additionally, should the design be flawed there are capable people who can re-design, and re-write the project so that it will, eventually, function – but they probably are not the buddies of Michelle Obama. What can't be fixed is that this is an illegal, un-Constitutional power grab that seeks to insert itself into the lives of 316 million Americans, less Congress, who exempted themselves, and this Administration; and while that is bad, the underlying basis of that grab - socialism - is based upon the precept that you think that you can seal what isn't yours and expect people to replace it by personal initiative so that you may steal it again over, and over again - a process that has kept sub-Saharan Africa in the third world; caused the economic crash of all of Eastern Europe; and the failure of the old Soviet Union; in addition to not working in the Plymouth Bay Colony in colonial America.
In an attempt to illustrate how bad developmental difficulties can be: I worked for a company who developed a truly revolutionary piece of computing HW - very, very, nice. They had to develop an operating system - it was an extraordinary piece of work - a master work. But the OS had 100s of thousands of lines code - not 500 million, a number that without explanation, is without credibility, as it is beyond the scope of the human capacity to fathom, much less to manage. So, as the company was in the computer biz, they told their sales force to go sell some of these new machines – as, at last the long and often delayed project was finished and ready for sale, and customer delivery. And that's what the sales force did. Then customer deliveries started to happen. With customer deliveries, the enormity of the SW mess became apparent - this project was the largest single development project, in terms of money, and people that this computer company had ever undertaken. So, visualize if you will, this company has 10 - 15 of these machines installed in customer facilities, and the customers have paid from 300k - 500k per machine - so these were relatively high profile installations, and to say that the customers were less than happy would be a gross understatement, as these premier machines couldn't be made to stay up for more than a few minutes at a time.
What to do?
The company pres. came out and visited - personally - each customer. He made no attempt to white wash the problem. He asked each customer for a purchase order for an older system that was known to be capable, and reliable. The customer didn't have to pay for the older system for 18 months. At the end of the 18 month period if the new system - the mess - didn't do everything that it was originally billed to do, the customer could keep, and pay for, the older system and return the "new" system at no cost – in the interim the customers were encouraged to use the new machines and provide feedback as fixes proceeded. Many, not all, of the customers agreed and kept the new machines... it was an 18 month period of intense development, and testing, but it wasn't long enough. Five years after the fact that new machine was the center-piece of that companies' product offering - a shining star, and it took 3-5 years to completely "fix" the OS containing hundreds of thousands of lines of code. And this was done by the very best accomplished SW development people – creative innovative people who routinely worked 10, 12, 14 hour days - those on the A-team don't work 8 hour days, and they don't play golf, and they don't play basketball, and they don't party with Beyonce, or Jay-Z. The message is that large system development, when rushed, always turns out badly - Presidents may lie, Cabinet members may lie, Project Managers may lie, Analysts may lie, Programmers may lie, but software never lies: SW is what it is, if well designed, and tested it mostly works, if not well designed, or tested it doesn't work; and no amount of lying will change that.
The Healtcare.gov type of SW is, in the main, custom - that is, it has to be designed; and the chance of it working increases when designed by someone who knows, and understands the boundary conditions necessary for system operation, eg. how many users will be supported at any given time; how much storage is require, and where it's to be logically, and physically located; how the storage access is to be distributed - so that users get a reasonable response time -; how is the compute load to be distributed, physically, and logically; how will the system deal with heavily loaded conditions - simply grind to a halt, or blow users off by telling them to come back later -; can what is being designed be scaled easily (made larger easily, with the expectation that the larger version will also work) - the hardware and SW necessary to handle 1500 users is not the hardware and SW necessary to handle 20k simultaneous users; how is the load to be distributed to the available hardware/SW as user demand increases; is transaction logging/archiving necessary - more storage, more time. All of these, and other requirements are unique to each system being developed. While all interactive systems have some commonality, each system in development is custom and unique, understanding, of course, that all systems use off-the-shelf Databases, and other "canned" SW.
The end result of the unique nature of individual "troubled" systems is that you can have "super" people - the A-team, if you will - and when put on a distressed project, the fact is that they are not like painters, they don't just grab a brush, and start painting. The fact is, on the front end they can't do much as they know almost nothing about the system's design. With SW development new people are a burden, and for a period of time contribute little as there is a finite period of time required for them to "come-up-to-speed" and be of any meaningful use on the troubled system's design and implementation. More people, and more cash just won't make it instantly any better – no matter what the little Red in the WH might want, or say - it's the reason that life experiences are so vital. The "education" task, when adding people to a troubled project, is in itself a problem. The difficulty is that much of detailed documentation that may exist are often almost useless as they were usually done on the front end when it was perceived that there was lots of time – and now that things have been frantic for a while most things have been altered/changed. How things are to be designed, and are supposed to work lives, in the main, in the heads of those working on the distressed project, as, because everything is behind schedule, there is no time to document or update anything except databases, file structures and data definitions - the stuff actually used by all the programs. That means that the worker-bees have to be taken away from the already distressed task to answer the questions of the newly arrived A-team who, while bright and experienced, don't know squat regarding how this particular distressed project has been designed and is supposed to function. Essentially, at least on the front end, the A-team not only doesn't help all that much, but the necessity to "educate" them detracts from the labor being directed to the distressed task. Ruffled feathers – personalities - may in fact cause some of the informed to use the opportunity exit the “pressure cooker” and up and quit, taking with them a treasure trove of undocumented information. – don't think I was ever on a project that had realistic time/delivery goals, you just worked through the issues until testing said it was functional, eg. fast enough and reliable enough for extensive testing.
Judging from the contract awards - http://about.bgov.com/2013-10-24/late-i ... -law-woes/ - this project didn't appear to actually get started in earnest until roughly March of 2013. (Need to be aware that this article's author was at one time a speechwriter for Geitner, and a medical adviser to HHS – not sure what that means, but it makes me question everything - could be a whistle blower, could be providing cover.) Can't be sure, but it looks as though, from the contracts, that somebody figured that they were going to throw together a system in a year or so in 2010, and 2011, then in late 2012, and when reality set in in March of 2013 it led to the standard uninitiated response to a troubled project - throw money at the problem. As John explained in the article there are problems that money just can't instantaneously fix. Given time - something Obama doesn't have -, a functional design - something that can't be reasonably assessed given the volatile political nature of the issue, and the propensity of those in this administration to simply lie, distort, and deceive - and capable people there is the prospect that this problem can be fixed - eventually. Additionally, should the design be flawed there are capable people who can re-design, and re-write the project so that it will, eventually, function – but they probably are not the buddies of Michelle Obama. What can't be fixed is that this is an illegal, un-Constitutional power grab that seeks to insert itself into the lives of 316 million Americans, less Congress, who exempted themselves, and this Administration; and while that is bad, the underlying basis of that grab - socialism - is based upon the precept that you think that you can seal what isn't yours and expect people to replace it by personal initiative so that you may steal it again over, and over again - a process that has kept sub-Saharan Africa in the third world; caused the economic crash of all of Eastern Europe; and the failure of the old Soviet Union; in addition to not working in the Plymouth Bay Colony in colonial America.
In an attempt to illustrate how bad developmental difficulties can be: I worked for a company who developed a truly revolutionary piece of computing HW - very, very, nice. They had to develop an operating system - it was an extraordinary piece of work - a master work. But the OS had 100s of thousands of lines code - not 500 million, a number that without explanation, is without credibility, as it is beyond the scope of the human capacity to fathom, much less to manage. So, as the company was in the computer biz, they told their sales force to go sell some of these new machines – as, at last the long and often delayed project was finished and ready for sale, and customer delivery. And that's what the sales force did. Then customer deliveries started to happen. With customer deliveries, the enormity of the SW mess became apparent - this project was the largest single development project, in terms of money, and people that this computer company had ever undertaken. So, visualize if you will, this company has 10 - 15 of these machines installed in customer facilities, and the customers have paid from 300k - 500k per machine - so these were relatively high profile installations, and to say that the customers were less than happy would be a gross understatement, as these premier machines couldn't be made to stay up for more than a few minutes at a time.
What to do?
The company pres. came out and visited - personally - each customer. He made no attempt to white wash the problem. He asked each customer for a purchase order for an older system that was known to be capable, and reliable. The customer didn't have to pay for the older system for 18 months. At the end of the 18 month period if the new system - the mess - didn't do everything that it was originally billed to do, the customer could keep, and pay for, the older system and return the "new" system at no cost – in the interim the customers were encouraged to use the new machines and provide feedback as fixes proceeded. Many, not all, of the customers agreed and kept the new machines... it was an 18 month period of intense development, and testing, but it wasn't long enough. Five years after the fact that new machine was the center-piece of that companies' product offering - a shining star, and it took 3-5 years to completely "fix" the OS containing hundreds of thousands of lines of code. And this was done by the very best accomplished SW development people – creative innovative people who routinely worked 10, 12, 14 hour days - those on the A-team don't work 8 hour days, and they don't play golf, and they don't play basketball, and they don't party with Beyonce, or Jay-Z. The message is that large system development, when rushed, always turns out badly - Presidents may lie, Cabinet members may lie, Project Managers may lie, Analysts may lie, Programmers may lie, but software never lies: SW is what it is, if well designed, and tested it mostly works, if not well designed, or tested it doesn't work; and no amount of lying will change that.
Re: 1-Dec-13 World View -- Obamacare: 500M lines of code, $5
to -- No-OneImportant
Having worked in an engineering/development department. Your example is the best I have yet to hear of this kind of management thinking.
"The mentality is: if it takes one woman 9 months to create a baby, and you need a baby in one month, what do you do? You just hire 8 more women, and viola, you put 'em all to work, and out pops the baby in one month... or so the inept thinking goes."
cheers
Having worked in an engineering/development department. Your example is the best I have yet to hear of this kind of management thinking.
"The mentality is: if it takes one woman 9 months to create a baby, and you need a baby in one month, what do you do? You just hire 8 more women, and viola, you put 'em all to work, and out pops the baby in one month... or so the inept thinking goes."
cheers
Re: 1-Dec-13 World View -- Obamacare: 500M lines of code, $5
And it just gets better
Healthcare.gov's Latest Glitch: Unusable Medicaid Data
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-0 ... icaid-data
Healthcare.gov's Latest Glitch: Unusable Medicaid Data
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-0 ... icaid-data
-
NoOneImportant
Re: 1-Dec-13 World View -- Obamacare: 500M lines of code, $5
Gerald wrote:
The real issue is do we want to live under fiat government - a government that believes that there is nothing that you can't be made to do, if a majority of 536 morons in Washington decide that you must do what they decide you shall do; or an authoritarian chief executive who decides that there is something that be believes you simply must do by dictate - law is the preview of Congress, and the President, not one, or the other. Obama has made numerous - 16 - distinct changes to the Obamacare law via dictate, no return to Congress for legislative approval, but by dictate without Constitutional due process, via dictate, via fiat - "... do it because I say so," changes. In this context none are safe. This law Obamacare brings us to where there is nothing beyond their preview, nothing beyond their reach, nothing that they cannot command, nothing that you cannot be made to do. Any law that contains thousands of pages can, essentially, mean whatever anyone desires to say it to means. In that context the logical extension of that type of thinking means at some point you will be forced to execute anyone whom you might be told to do so to - legally, without your having any recourse... this is the path that led Germany to the kamps. Absurd? The HHS mandate requires 500+ operating Catholic hospitals to provide abortion services, despite abortion services being widely available from other sources - regardless of the Christian moral conviction that abortion is just that: murder; this isn't about the web site, the isn't even about Obamacare, the law, this is about command and subordination; can you be commanded to do virtually anything, can your moral impediment be quashed by dictate? Abortion is no less murder because we can't hear the victim's screams, no less murder because there are no surviving victims to file suit in court, no less murder because somebody tells you that it's ok to kill the vulnerable, and defenseless - that would be the mother. It is an imperceptible hop from killing the mute, and vulnerable to the disabled, from the disabled, to the demented, from the demented to the destitute, from the destitute to the politically irritable/undesirable, from the undesirable to the "useless," whatever that might be dictated to be. You, under this "law", regardless of what you believe, are forced under penalty of seizure or imprisonment to pay for this monstrosity; if you attempt to withhold payment on moral grounds, a federal lien is placed against your home, or you are subject to an endless stream of persecution by that wonderful impartial non-political organization: the IRS - that selfsame IRS that has hired 16,000 agents to "administer" this cluster f***, that very same IRS that has been perverted by Obama into a weapon of American political persecution by those same people dictating, via fiat, what American Law shall be. Resist, and continue to resist enough, and do you really believe that they will not come to get you? In this context what moralities are you permitted to enjoy, shall we be given a list or will a bureaucrat let you know based upon your "need-to-know" when they get around to it, and when will those moralities be changed, and who will dictate what they are to be, and how will you be notified of the "new" list of the "blessed" moralities?
In what context is that considered freedom? In this context it is simply a matter of time before you, or any for that matter, are called upon to do, and execute, and pay for the repugnant, unimaginable, and patently immoral - by any standards - actions, and you are dictated to perform those actions without recourse.
Obama, in his interview with Chris Matthews, had the audacity to blame the Obamacare difficulties on a government that was just too big, and too unwieldly - I guess that I missed his presser where he announced becoming a Republican. I am just flummoxed by this idiot, there is nothing he won't say, no one he won't blame, no cause he won't find to avoid accepting responsibility for his own ineptitude, his own malice laid bare - IRS - this is a man who belongs in prison, not the White House. The evil and damage done by this one man is almost beyond measure - nationally, and internationally. The mess of this man will live long after him. Gerald, Obamacare is a problem, the web site is a problem, but the problem lies in an electorate who refuses to abandon the something-for-nothing mentality and desire - regarding Obamacare you can't cover 20 million more people with the same asset, and reduce its cost; anyone who tells you anything other than that is to be avoided, as he is either stupid, or has chosen to lie, distort, and deceive you. Why would anyone believe: that someone who would use the administrative power of government to persecute and steal the resources of one group, would not steal what you have when he so desired? Why would you believe that he will just steal the other guys stuff, but he won't steal my stuff, cause it's mine, and I don't want him to, and were both from the same party?
All of these things about the web site are true... but they are a distraction, they can and will be fixed eventually, and it'll take years to get this mess fully functional; but that is a time to be feared, as when fully functional then they will indeed have something to protect as the lies about 500 million lines of code will become a billion, or more... sure, yeah, why not if a billion is good, then why not two billion - no lie is too big, too grand, too absurd.And it just gets better
Healthcare.gov's Latest Glitch: Unusable Medicaid Data
The real issue is do we want to live under fiat government - a government that believes that there is nothing that you can't be made to do, if a majority of 536 morons in Washington decide that you must do what they decide you shall do; or an authoritarian chief executive who decides that there is something that be believes you simply must do by dictate - law is the preview of Congress, and the President, not one, or the other. Obama has made numerous - 16 - distinct changes to the Obamacare law via dictate, no return to Congress for legislative approval, but by dictate without Constitutional due process, via dictate, via fiat - "... do it because I say so," changes. In this context none are safe. This law Obamacare brings us to where there is nothing beyond their preview, nothing beyond their reach, nothing that they cannot command, nothing that you cannot be made to do. Any law that contains thousands of pages can, essentially, mean whatever anyone desires to say it to means. In that context the logical extension of that type of thinking means at some point you will be forced to execute anyone whom you might be told to do so to - legally, without your having any recourse... this is the path that led Germany to the kamps. Absurd? The HHS mandate requires 500+ operating Catholic hospitals to provide abortion services, despite abortion services being widely available from other sources - regardless of the Christian moral conviction that abortion is just that: murder; this isn't about the web site, the isn't even about Obamacare, the law, this is about command and subordination; can you be commanded to do virtually anything, can your moral impediment be quashed by dictate? Abortion is no less murder because we can't hear the victim's screams, no less murder because there are no surviving victims to file suit in court, no less murder because somebody tells you that it's ok to kill the vulnerable, and defenseless - that would be the mother. It is an imperceptible hop from killing the mute, and vulnerable to the disabled, from the disabled, to the demented, from the demented to the destitute, from the destitute to the politically irritable/undesirable, from the undesirable to the "useless," whatever that might be dictated to be. You, under this "law", regardless of what you believe, are forced under penalty of seizure or imprisonment to pay for this monstrosity; if you attempt to withhold payment on moral grounds, a federal lien is placed against your home, or you are subject to an endless stream of persecution by that wonderful impartial non-political organization: the IRS - that selfsame IRS that has hired 16,000 agents to "administer" this cluster f***, that very same IRS that has been perverted by Obama into a weapon of American political persecution by those same people dictating, via fiat, what American Law shall be. Resist, and continue to resist enough, and do you really believe that they will not come to get you? In this context what moralities are you permitted to enjoy, shall we be given a list or will a bureaucrat let you know based upon your "need-to-know" when they get around to it, and when will those moralities be changed, and who will dictate what they are to be, and how will you be notified of the "new" list of the "blessed" moralities?
In what context is that considered freedom? In this context it is simply a matter of time before you, or any for that matter, are called upon to do, and execute, and pay for the repugnant, unimaginable, and patently immoral - by any standards - actions, and you are dictated to perform those actions without recourse.
Obama, in his interview with Chris Matthews, had the audacity to blame the Obamacare difficulties on a government that was just too big, and too unwieldly - I guess that I missed his presser where he announced becoming a Republican. I am just flummoxed by this idiot, there is nothing he won't say, no one he won't blame, no cause he won't find to avoid accepting responsibility for his own ineptitude, his own malice laid bare - IRS - this is a man who belongs in prison, not the White House. The evil and damage done by this one man is almost beyond measure - nationally, and internationally. The mess of this man will live long after him. Gerald, Obamacare is a problem, the web site is a problem, but the problem lies in an electorate who refuses to abandon the something-for-nothing mentality and desire - regarding Obamacare you can't cover 20 million more people with the same asset, and reduce its cost; anyone who tells you anything other than that is to be avoided, as he is either stupid, or has chosen to lie, distort, and deceive you. Why would anyone believe: that someone who would use the administrative power of government to persecute and steal the resources of one group, would not steal what you have when he so desired? Why would you believe that he will just steal the other guys stuff, but he won't steal my stuff, cause it's mine, and I don't want him to, and were both from the same party?
Re: 1-Dec-13 World View -- Obamacare: 500M lines of code, $5
to;
NoOneImportant --- and it just gets better ----70% Of Calfornia's Doctors Expected To Boycott Obamacare ( costs not covered?)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-0 ... -obamacare
The problem with much of humanity today is they have been programmed to want something for nothing. (I want it, why should I pay for it, make him pay for it, I am entitled)
In an agrarian society, for example, YOU planted , YOU harvested, and YOU had the results, if YOU did not plan, YOU STARVED to death. Today you can be a total fu*k up and still live fairly well ( what ever that is )
So why worry? --- However, Nature has a way of evening things up. --- It could get very interesting.
NoOneImportant --- and it just gets better ----70% Of Calfornia's Doctors Expected To Boycott Obamacare ( costs not covered?)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-0 ... -obamacare
The problem with much of humanity today is they have been programmed to want something for nothing. (I want it, why should I pay for it, make him pay for it, I am entitled)
In an agrarian society, for example, YOU planted , YOU harvested, and YOU had the results, if YOU did not plan, YOU STARVED to death. Today you can be a total fu*k up and still live fairly well ( what ever that is )
So why worry? --- However, Nature has a way of evening things up. --- It could get very interesting.
Re: 1-Dec-13 World View -- Obamacare: 500M lines of code, $5
Actually, I don't think it's ever going to work in its current form.NoOneImportant wrote: > All of these things about the web site are true... but they are a
> distraction, they can and will be fixed eventually, and it'll take
> years to get this mess fully functional; but that is a time to be
> feared, as when fully functional then they will indeed have
> something to protect as the lies about 500 million lines of code
> will become a billion, or more... sure, yeah, why not if a billion
> is good, then why not two billion - no lie is too big, too grand,
> too absurd.
It would have to be thrown out and be rewritten from scratch.
Actually, I don't think anything was different in agrarian societies.gerald wrote: > In an agrarian society, for example, YOU planted , YOU harvested,
> and YOU had the results, if YOU did not plan, YOU STARVED to
> death.
You had the serfs, and you had the landlords. People are people at
any time and place in history. As in the case of Tulipomania, bubbles
can occur in any society at any time, because it's always possible to
find a way to securitize debt.
Re: 1-Dec-13 World View -- Obamacare: 500M lines of code, $5
Sorry, I should have been a little more specific, a simple agrarian as in a simple hunter gather society, yes there was cooperation but they did not feed the "totally non productive". The more complex a society the more niches for the nonproductive and manias. What I think you are mentioning ( serfs and landlords )is a feudal society, and it was fairly complex.John wrote:Actually, I don't think it's ever going to work in its current form.NoOneImportant wrote: > All of these things about the web site are true... but they are a
> distraction, they can and will be fixed eventually, and it'll take
> years to get this mess fully functional; but that is a time to be
> feared, as when fully functional then they will indeed have
> something to protect as the lies about 500 million lines of code
> will become a billion, or more... sure, yeah, why not if a billion
> is good, then why not two billion - no lie is too big, too grand,
> too absurd.
It would have to be thrown out and be rewritten from scratch.
Actually, I don't think anything was different in agrarian societies.gerald wrote: > In an agrarian society, for example, YOU planted , YOU harvested,
> and YOU had the results, if YOU did not plan, YOU STARVED to
> death.
You had the serfs, and you had the landlords. People are people at
any time and place in history. As in the case of Tulipomania, bubbles
can occur in any society at any time, because it's always possible to
find a way to securitize debt.
Re: 1-Dec-13 World View -- Obamacare: 500M lines of code, $5
from Guest Post: The State Causes The Poverty It Later Claims To Solve
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-0 ... aims-solve
The economist Roland Baader observed:
"The political caste must prove its right to exist, by doing something. However, because everything it does, it does much worse, it has to constantly carry out reforms, i.e., it has to do something, because it did something already. It would not have to do something, had it not already done something. If only one knew what one could do to stop it from doing things."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-0 ... aims-solve
The economist Roland Baader observed:
"The political caste must prove its right to exist, by doing something. However, because everything it does, it does much worse, it has to constantly carry out reforms, i.e., it has to do something, because it did something already. It would not have to do something, had it not already done something. If only one knew what one could do to stop it from doing things."
Re: 1-Dec-13 World View -- Obamacare: 500M lines of code, $5
What I'm saying is that I believe that people are people at all placesGerald wrote: > Sorry, I should have been a little more specific, a simple
> agrarian as in a simple hunter gather society, yes there was
> cooperation but they did not feed the "totally non
> productive". The more complex a society the more niches for the
> nonproductive and manias. What I think you are mentioning ( serfs
> and landlords )is a feudal society, and it was fairly complex.
and times. You can plant a few people on an island, where they'll set
up a commune (from each according to his ability, to each according to
his need). But within a couple of generations, there'll be families
fighting each other for resources. So your society has to have
warriors, and they don't do any planting. And they have to have
commanders who don't do any planting. And you have to have government
people who respond to Awakening era riots, and they don't do any
planting. Soon people set up some kind of monetary system, so they
can trade with each other, and so they can trade with the society next
door. Then during the Unraveling era you start getting debts, then
during the Crisis era you get securitization of debt, then a bubble,
then a major financial crisis. It doesn't take more than a few dozen
people for all of this to happen, especially if there's a competing
society next door, and when the financial crisis leads to a crisis
war, then the resolution will be to set up rules and infrastructure to
prevent such a war from ever happening again. So your simple agrarian
society would become, within four generations or so, a full-fledged
complex society.
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