I can only speak to the first paragraph here. I have no idea what points you are trying to make with the second and third paragraphs.Bob Butler wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:01 amFrance was not America. Germany was not America. Japan was not America. All of them still aren't, but they have picked up much of the Enlightenment values. History changes cultures. War is no longer cost effective. Hasn't been for some time. Just ask Napoleon or Hitler.Navigator wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:30 amThe Russian Army only wants the war to end at this point so that they can rebuild and refit. They are not going to go back to the original border and say "oh well". They will treat this like Finland 39/40.
You are putting American values into the minds of Russians, which is a common mistake. Other cultures are NOT Americans.
I suspect one element of the US culture might become relevant, one that Grant was famous for and that FDR and Churchill pushed. Unconditional Surrender Grant. The west when it gains an advantage pushes it. While Putin may have started the Ukraine conflict, I am doubtful that he can end it at whim save by retreating behind the old borders, especially if he tries to survive by continuing the conflict. The draft dodgers are looking for borders to cross. Those who failed to draft dodge are surrendering as soon as they contact the enemy. Putin's control of Russia is weakening.
By the way, what have Napoleon and St Bernadette of Lourdes have in common? Decades after their death, their bodies were exhumed and it was discovered that two miracles had happened. Neither body had aged, had rotted, as is usual and expected. Great wonder and amazement, save that some knew that if you died of arsenic poisoning, your body tends to kill microbes that try to invade it... St Bernadette had a major tumor, and was dying a slow painful death. Arsenic poisoning might be considered mercy, though you would not speak of it. I suspect the motivation behind Napoleon's death was less benign.
Culture change came to Germany and Japan only in the aftermath of WW2. In that conflict it became readily apparent to every single German and every single Japanese that the US/USSR was going to kill every single one of them, if that is what it took to defeat them. The point is that they changed their cultures only when it was the only option for self preservation. Then they had the US hold their hand for roughly a decade to oversee the complete change of their cultures.
Culture change in France came much more slowly, but was in large measure affected by the similar extreme losses suffered by France in the Napoleonic Wars. Namely that almost every able bodied military age male was a casualty and that the nation was impoverished for years as a result.
These things have not yet happened for Russia. Russia now seems to be playing the role of Austria-Hungary. The majority of its population were not enthusiastic about that war either. But it took the losses of that major war to actually end that power.
