Financial topics

[Higgenbotham]

To say that BTC doesn't have underlying value is to fundamentally not understand bitcoin. If you don't understand it (I've listed these reasons for months now, it's a waste of time repeating them all again though I did some above) then you are STILL are left to explain why billionaire investors are buying it. Wanna get laughed at? Go tell someone that Saylor, Musk, Tudor Jones, O'Leary, Druckenmiller - you name him - bought BTC for the hell of it. Yeah, they did it just for fun. WTF are you guys serious?

I've already covered this.

I've answered the value question many times, but surely you can't think that myself, Elon Musk, Michael Saylor are idiots.

As far as Musk and Saylor go, it's impossible to know why they are gambling on bitcoin. But let me offer a possible reason.

“You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out.” — Warren Buffett

Shortly after March 20, 2000, the worst day of Michael Saylor's life, one of his blue-chip Washington lawyers, Brendan Sullivan, promised him that everything was about to get worse.

This was just after MicroStrategy Inc., the company Saylor led, had been forced to issue a "restatement" of its recent financial records, effectively turning two years of profits into two years of losses; it was after the company's stock price fell from $226.75 to $86.75 a share in a single day of trading.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... 9b993a226/

Say, like Trump, you've been in the real estate business, and you recognize it's a bubble and has been for a long time. It's logical to say, well, it's been a bubble for a long time and the way to address it has been to buy the dip and then wait for some excesses, trim holdings, wait for the next dip, etc. The practical way to be successful in navigating the bubble has been to take on debt and assume the general trajectory is onward and upward to bigger and bigger bubbles with speed bumps along the road. People who have the constitution to operate in that manner are the only ones who have amassed fortunes since the 1987 crash (Hendricks Holdings, for example) and among that class of people a certain groupthink has developed and a level of genius is inappropriately attributed to that kind of thinking (another more widely known example, the cult of Warren Buffet which would never have existed absent the bubble environment since 1987).

So Saylor hit a speed bump about the time the Internet bubble burst. Now he's borrowed to buy bitcoin.

A friend of mine dug this up. I hadn't seen it. The question is when does just another speed bump turn into a brick wall for these gamblers.

Troubled MicroStrategy Dumps Cruises, Other Lavish Worker Perks to Cut Costs
By Julia AngwinStaff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
Aug. 29, 2000 4:18 am ET


The party is over at MicroStrategy Inc., literally.

As part of a cost-cutting move, the struggling Vienna, Va., software firm will no longer take all 2,300 employees on annual Caribbean cruises or fly workers' friends and family to Virginia for annual company visits.

Also, the company announced it will lay off 10% of its work force in a move the company says will save $25 million annually.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB967502678567820619

So when you see the billionaires and family offices like Tudor Jones and Druckenmiller getting involved in this, these are the guys who operated solely in the post 1971 bubble environment. They understand bubbles and they know what they are doing with regard to bubbles, but in my opinion that is all they know and they became billionaires solely because they are able to latch onto that kind of thinking (up or down). My view is that we have been in this bubble environment for a long time and it seems normal but is in fact quite abnormal and when it reverses, it will do so with an absolute vengeance. This is a multi-century extreme in my opinion. Few will survive the financial fallout and even fewer will survive at all. It's for that reason that I don't want to spend a lot of time debating this (I think full moon and tim are right, and it doesn't matter much whether they are right on the details or not - a bomb shelter in a remote location is good for many things besides surviving a nuclear war). I believe we are in the last days of the current paradigm, as many other posters do.

[Higgenbotham]

For the 20th time, no one who knows anything about BTC, or posts on this board, ever has stated that the reason to believe in or buy BTC even, is due to its price going up. The reason you buy and hold are because it has properties that are important and valuable, particularly for this time in history. And that its portability and network effect are phenomenal, the greatest of all time (portability), in fact.

Nothing so animates a speculative herd as a parabolic price advance in an asset detached from any standard of value. Price convinces.

Once the herd has been taken in by a bubble and gets animated by price, the herd searches for reasons to justify and explain price. In a real estate bubble, the tout might be that population only goes up, or they're not making any more land. Similarly, with bitcoin, it might be that there is a cap on supply. I like your most recent justification - "its portability and network effect are phenomenal" - that's a good one.

The opposite effect is often seen at price lows. For example, when gold was at $400 or so, someone asked my advice on investments. I recommended that she look at gold. Several days later, she told me that she wouldn't be buying any gold because her mother didn't think it was a good investment. Around that time, message boards were justifying the low price by saying that the ocean was full of gold, that gold would be mined from the oceans, and the price would fall to double digits. Price won again, and convinced the herd.

[aeden]

When the economic body hit the pavement H they will understand.
As we know never fight the tape. It will adapt just like the
recent SVU that had 25 in and 15 did not make it. Bitch about unsalted crackers
and even the smart ones who escaped the eat the zoo socialist's do figure it out
if they survive.
Biden demsheviks are true believers just like the other dialectally
deceived. The best analogy is American History X and when he fully understood
the concepts. As we seen segments will not be repaired as they hired one half to kill
the other. As we seen real time no side is on our side from the Frankfurt and Italian files.

[Cool Breeze]

For the 20th time, no one who knows anything about BTC, or posts on this board, ever has stated that the reason to believe in or buy BTC even, is due to its price going up. The reason you buy and hold are because it has properties that are important and valuable, particularly for this time in history. And that its portability and network effect are phenomenal, the greatest of all time (portability), in fact.

Nothing so animates a speculative herd as a parabolic price advance in an asset detached from any standard of value. Price convinces.

Proving again that you don't know how to read, and you don't treat intelligent arguments because you have nothing to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tt9vn2F8NQ

Learn something from Mr. Antonopoulos, or don't. Open minded people will hear it and understand how important this technology is. Never in human history could you send value (and do much more) without having to trust anyone, or have a centralized authority to monitor or legitimize that for you. Now we do.

But that's nothing. There's no value in that. Are you aware of how stupid that (non) thinking is?

[Higgenbotham]

For the 20th time, no one who knows anything about BTC, or posts on this board, ever has stated that the reason to believe in or buy BTC even, is due to its price going up. The reason you buy and hold are because it has properties that are important and valuable, particularly for this time in history. And that its portability and network effect are phenomenal, the greatest of all time (portability), in fact.

Nothing so animates a speculative herd as a parabolic price advance in an asset detached from any standard of value. Price convinces.

Proving again that you don't know how to read, and you don't treat intelligent arguments because you have nothing to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tt9vn2F8NQ

Learn something from Mr. Antonopoulos, or don't. Open minded people will hear it and understand how important this technology is. Never in human history could you send value (and do much more) without having to trust anyone, or have a centralized authority to monitor or legitimize that for you. Now we do.

But that's nothing. There's no value in that. Are you aware of how stupid that (non) thinking is?

I've already given the reasons why bitcoin won't work and your latest grasping at straws doesn't address them. The issues aren't scalability and trust, they are that bitcoin has fundamental flaws that haven't been addressed and can't be rectified.

I never said scalability and trust were issues. Other people did, including some top economists that I think are wrong in saying that, but I haven't.

I would add one thing I haven't said before. The more bitcoin is used, mined and so on, the worse things will get. Yes, Bitcoin is making things worse, not better.

[aeden]

As we said H.
At the end of the day do not leave it on the table.
As we know it is based on issues they cannot fathom.
Elegant and yet unknown.
Based on a major prophet coded to assist a dying friend.
If you escapes a system to get to another system
can we gauge utility.
As He noted, yea we read the white papers.
I wait the answer since a 1937 Book from brighter minds than myself.


thread: isa55

[aeden]

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/cdc- ... ors-orders
The cheese has slipped off the cracker.

epitranscriptome - no cure unleashed unto you

[tim]

I've been watching an excellent channel on YouTube called Fall of Civilizations: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT6Y5J ... MivpKgVXew

High quality documentaries that remind me of what the Discovery Channel and History Channel used to have decades ago.

The Sumerians - Fall of the First Cities, I found to be particularly interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2lJUOv0hLA

Imagine the people living in these great cities in their heyday. Nobody would have thought in the future that they would completely collapse to the point where future humans knew almost nothing about their civilization and where there would be nothing in written history about their way of life.

The rise and fall of civilization is a part of human nature and is probably cyclical in a way that isn't understandable by humans.

Civilization completely collapsing when viewed from the perspective of human history since agriculture isn't that rare of an event.

Towards the end of these ancient civilizations, were normal facts that used to be easily observable and understood suddenly become under question as is the case today?

[aeden]

Yes we cover segments and patterns.
search.php?keywords=cotteral&t=2&sf=msgonly
search.php?keywords=tammuz&t=2&sf=msgonly
We checked here to circa 3320 bc to confirm one item that then they knew and to 1986
computer systems to understand today.
Our opinion from recheck is the elam file underway.

Anyways,
https://www.newsfilecorp.com/release/75917

Sadly, when things get really bad in this nation, no part of the country will be fully immune.

We healed our soil and added production and witnessed things not understood.
We call it the Smithsonian educational problem.

The scalable energy platform can be increased 400 percent per location.
Texas we see and understand. The coming phase witnessed for Bob Bish is clear
and has eternal consequences.

[vincecate]

When the tide goes out the frauds will show early on. NKLA is a fraud stock. Like they rolled a truck down a hill to make investors think they had a working truck type fraud. They have admitted as much and still their company is worth many billions. However, recent price drops make me think it might finally be starting down. I take this as one clue that investors are starting to wise up. Maybe the crash is getting close.

https://in.tradingview.com/symbols/NASDAQ-NKLA/

Bitcoin is a very strange thing. If it is destined to become the world dominant money, then it is currently a good buy. I think it will. The dollar is too flawed to last and I see nothing else that can replace it. It is sort of like buying something that will become money before it is fully money, so you get a good discount.

With lightning network on top of the core Bitcoin, I don't think there are any "flaws that can not be fixed". My new Bitcoin ATM can handle Lightning.
http://bitcoin.ai/TwoATMs.jpg

Higgie, what do you think are the unfixable flaws in Bitcoin/Lightning?