Generational Dynamics World View News

[DaKardii]

Attacking others for correctly pointing out your failure to acknowledge that all major news sources are fake news does not make them Russian trolls, John.

It makes you a cunt.

All major news sources, be it pro-Ukrainian ones or pro-Russian ones, are guilty of promoting fake news at times. That's why it's important that we be critical thinkers. And John for sure is a critical thinker, even if I don't necessarily agree with all of his conclusions.

Meanwhile, do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

[Bob Butler]

How's this for the most unpopular argument ever.

Both sides have white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and radical Islamists in their ranks. And thus both sides will be committing horrific war crimes against each other. And the rest of the world will ignore these facts because they will be focused on taking sides.

I would say the action is primarily in Ukraine, there are more Ukrainian civilians there, and there are a good number or war crimes that are such because they target civilians. Calling both sides equally criminal simply is not factual.

Now I agree there are white supremacists, Neo nazis and radical Islamists. That has been a signature of this site. The Marco Polo bridge incident at the start of World War II is classic. You work up your people to hate the other side, thus your soldiers become more efficient and motivated. I can agree that understanding hate and prejudice can help you understand conflicts where these things dominate. Incidents in Africa and the Middle East recently have seen Generational Dynamics successfully predict this all too human behavior. It is more problematic to see hate and prejudice promoted in one’s own culture.

But the Ukraine conflict doesn’t seem to base around that effect. The Russian troops didn’t know they were invading until people started shooting at them. There was no propaganda building up hatred and prejudice involved. On the other side, it is not quite yet the Russian people who are the target of prejudicial feelings. The Ukrainian people just prefer a more democratic form of government. This is not apt to last, or perhaps has not lasted. If Russia is using military force against civilians some emotion and prejudice is likely to manifest.

Thus, that one race dislikes another was originally not the driving factor. This is a war of national greed.

I know I am taking the side of people who want to live more as they choose, not because I hate the Russian people. They have tolerated Putin. They do have a strange idea of Russia’s place in the world. But I would not call it hate or prejudice.

[DaKardii]

I would say the action is primarily in Ukraine, there are more Ukrainian civilians there, and there are a good number or war crimes that are such because they target civilians. Calling both sides equally criminal simply is not factual.

I never said both sides are equally criminal, I only said both sides are criminal.

Now I agree there are white supremacists, Neo nazis and radical Islamists. That has been a signature of this site.

Would you like to clarify that?

The Marco Polo bridge incident at the start of World War II is classic. You work up your people to hate the other side, thus your soldiers become more efficient and motivated. I can agree that understanding hate and prejudice can help you understand conflicts where these things dominate. Incidents in Africa and the Middle East recently have seen Generational Dynamics successfully predict this all too human behavior. It is more problematic to see hate and prejudice promoted in one’s own culture.

Would you like to clarify that?

But the Ukraine conflict doesn’t seem to base around that effect. The Russian troops didn’t know they were invading until people started shooting at them.

What do you mean the Russian troops didn't know they were invading? Did they not know they were setting foot in Ukrainian territory?

There was no propaganda building up hatred and prejudice involved. On the other side, it is not quite yet the Russian people who are the target of prejudicial feelings. The Ukrainian people just prefer a more democratic form of government. This is not apt to last, or perhaps has not lasted. If Russia is using military force against civilians some emotion and prejudice is likely to manifest.

Yeah, like I'm supposed to believe there was absolutely no anti-Russian hatred in Ukraine prior to two months ago. Even though the Holodomor has been a point of contention between Russia and Ukraine for decades, Russia took Crimea in 2014, and shortly after that an entire division of the Ukrainian military was co-opted by neo-Nazis who admire WWII-era collaborators who committed acts of genocide against not just Russians but also Jews and Poles. Give me a break.

I know I am taking the side of people who want to live more as they choose, not because I hate the Russian people. They have tolerated Putin. They do have a strange idea of Russia’s place in the world. But I would not call it hate or prejudice.

Nobody asked who you hate or don't hate, so this is a non-sequitur.

[El Cid M]

I would say the action is primarily in Ukraine, there are more Ukrainian civilians there, and there are a good number or war crimes that are such because they target civilians. Calling both sides equally criminal simply is not factual.

I never said both sides are equally criminal, I only said both sides are criminal.

I used to think you were just trolling, but now I realize you really are this idiotic.

One must differentiate between the act of individual soldiers and soldiers carrying out state policy.

You split hairs to justify letting Ukraine be massacred to death.

People love to bring up the AZOV battalion (one unit which Zelensky has declared the leader to be 'A hero of Ukraine'--the highest honor to be given) and their Nazi tattoos, but they deliberately avoid talking about the Wagner Group (which numbers in the thousands, Putin's personal gang of war criminals and their leadership which sports Nazi tattoos, even going so far as to post them online. The group was named Wagner because of Hitler's love for the composer.

People like you end up doing nothing and becoming nothing.

Pick one side or the other; everyone hates people on the fence. It's an act of moral and physical cowardice.

(BTW, I like Wagner, but I am not a Nazi.)

[DaKardii]

People love to bring up the AZOV battalion (one unit which Zelensky has declared the leader to be 'A hero of Ukraine'--the highest honor to be given) and their Nazi tattoos, but they deliberately avoid talking about the Wagner Group (which numbers in the thousands, Putin's personal gang of war criminals and their leadership which sports Nazi tattoos, even going so far as to post them online. The group was named Wagner because of Hitler's love for the composer.

I'm well aware of this. That's one of the reasons why I said that there are neo-Nazis on both sides.

[DaKardii]

Putin and Zelensky, as heads of their respective states, have both a moral duty and an international legal obligation to prevent genocide from arising out of the armed conflict in Ukraine, regardless of who the perpetrators are acting on behalf of.

Both leaders are failing in that regard, either through indifference (in the case of Zelensky and possibly Putin) or through encouragement (in the case of possibly Putin). The reason I am not sure whether Putin is being indifferent or he actually wants genocide to happen is because while his media acolytes are actively encouraging genocide, to my knowledge he himself hasn't escalated his rhetoric to that degree. This is in stark contrast to Hitler, who explicitly threatened that a Second World War would result in "the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe" during a speech to the Reichstag. But I'll admit that's beside the main point.

Bottom line is, both Putin and Zelensky have blood on their hands. And in a just world, they both would pay the price. But this isn't a just world, so only the losing side will be punished.

[DaKardii]

Bottom line is, both Putin and Zelensky have blood on their hands. And in a just world, they both would pay the price. But this isn't a just world, so only the losing side will be punished.

If Generational Dynamics proves to be correct, then Russia will get away with whatever war crimes it commits during World War III. But the question is, "which Russia?" We don't know for certain if the Russian regime which allies with the US against China will be Putin's. And in the event that Putin's regime collapses prior to the outbreak of World War III, who knows whether Putin's followers will fight alongside the new regime or will collaborate with the CCP?

[El Cid M]

Putin and Zelensky, as heads of their respective states, have both a moral duty and an international legal obligation to prevent genocide from arising out of the armed conflict in Ukraine, regardless of who the perpetrators are acting on behalf of.

Both leaders are failing in that regard, either through indifference (in the case of Zelensky and possibly Putin) or through encouragement (in the case of possibly Putin). The reason I am not sure whether Putin is being indifferent or he actually wants genocide to happen is because while his media acolytes are actively encouraging genocide, to my knowledge he himself hasn't escalated his rhetoric to that degree. This is in stark contrast to Hitler, who explicitly threatened that a Second World War would result in "the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe" during a speech to the Reichstag. But I'll admit that's beside the main point.

Bottom line is, both Putin and Zelensky have blood on their hands. And in a just world, they both would pay the price. But this isn't a just world, so only the losing side will be punished.

Bottom line is that you don't know what you are talking about.

How is Zelensky committing genocide? Is he trying to invade Russia, steal its territory, and rape, torture, and murder its people?

Putin committed genocide in Chechnya. He has alsotortured and murdered a countless number of Russian opponents. Putin knows exactly what he is doing.

Putin's "media acolytes" only say what Putin wants them to say. They get lists of talking points to follow. They are Putin's mouth pieces.

Putin has already said that Ukrainians don't exist, nor does Ukraine, accept as a province of Greater Russia.

You have been spouting off for years about how the "pro-CCP" elements of America are traitors and Chinese stooges. Well, guess what, you're Russia stooge.

[Zoomer go Brr]

Putin and Zelensky, as heads of their respective states, have both a moral duty and an international legal obligation to prevent genocide from arising out of the armed conflict in Ukraine, regardless of who the perpetrators are acting on behalf of.

Both leaders are failing in that regard, either through indifference (in the case of Zelensky and possibly Putin) or through encouragement (in the case of possibly Putin). The reason I am not sure whether Putin is being indifferent or he actually wants genocide to happen is because while his media acolytes are actively encouraging genocide, to my knowledge he himself hasn't escalated his rhetoric to that degree. This is in stark contrast to Hitler, who explicitly threatened that a Second World War would result in "the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe" during a speech to the Reichstag. But I'll admit that's beside the main point.

Bottom line is, both Putin and Zelensky have blood on their hands. And in a just world, they both would pay the price. But this isn't a just world, so only the losing side will be punished.

Bottom line is that you don't know what you are talking about.

How is Zelensky committing genocide? Is he trying to invade Russia, steal its territory, and rape, torture, and murder its people?

Putin committed genocide in Chechnya. He has alsotortured and murdered a countless number of Russian opponents. Putin knows exactly what he is doing.

Putin's "media acolytes" only say what Putin wants them to say. They get lists of talking points to follow. They are Putin's mouth pieces.

Putin has already said that Ukrainians don't exist, nor does Ukraine, accept as a province of Greater Russia.

You have been spouting off for years about how the "pro-CCP" elements of America are traitors and Chinese stooges. Well, guess what, you're Russia stooge.

Agree that Ukraine isn’t committing genocide.

Agree that Russia is worse.

However, Zelensky has done nothing to stop the crimes being committed by the Ukrainian forces against the Ukrainian civilians. I’ve seen videos and pictures of people duct taped to poker being caned and left attached to the poles, their asses bare, videos of people being beaten for alleged Russian sympathy or refusal/inability to fight - no trial or evidence just some soldier’s anger, videos of Ukrainian soldiers killing their own civilians for “pro-Russian sympathy,” video of Ukrainians killing captured and injured Russian soldiers in the road, and last but not least a video of a Ukrainian soldier mining a playground in a city supposedly under their control.

I truly believe this breakdown of order into this anarchic martial law chaos is because Zelensky is likely not in Kyiv and possibly the country.

[Bob Butler]

I would say the action is primarily in Ukraine, there are more Ukrainian civilians there, and there are a good number or war crimes that are such because they target civilians. Calling both sides equally criminal simply is not factual.

I never said both sides are equally criminal, I only said both sides are criminal.

Sizeing another country's land is criminal. Defending one's country is not. It is true that war ought to be criminal, and in fact any war will run afoul of one or another attempt to outlaw war in the past, but the burden would go to the side that initiated the conflict. That much is clear in this case.

Now I agree there are white supremacists, Neo nazis and radical Islamists. That has been a signature of this site.

Would you like to clarify that?

It is a major emphasis of Generational Dynamics that hate and prejudice increase the effectiveness of one's army and that you can predict nations in many parts of the world engaging in this process, including but hardly limited to those groups mentioned above.

The Marco Polo bridge incident at the start of World War II is classic. You work up your people to hate the other side, thus your soldiers become more efficient and motivated. I can agree that understanding hate and prejudice can help you understand conflicts where these things dominate. Incidents in Africa and the Middle East recently have seen Generational Dynamics successfully predict this all too human behavior. It is more problematic to see hate and prejudice promoted in one’s own culture.

Would you like to clarify that?

To those who value "all men are created equal", promoting hatred of minorities is anathema. Among other things, negros have been lynched, Native American lands stolen, Asian women denied entry and Irish denied jobs. This sort of behavior and it's hopefully lesser modern equivalents are considered objectionable by many. The tendency of many rural populations to cling to such prejudice and hate and by some political parties to seek votes by implying a policy of prejudice and hate would thus be objectionable.

But the Ukraine conflict doesn’t seem to base around that effect. The Russian troops didn’t know they were invading until people started shooting at them.

What do you mean the Russian troops didn't know they were invading? Did they not know they were setting foot in Ukrainian territory?

Some were told to get into trucks which became parts of convoys. They were told they were heading to training exercises, not crossing into another country uninvited. Clearly, some higher ranking officers knew this. This has been reported on extensively, at least by the main stream news.

There was no propaganda building up hatred and prejudice involved. On the other side, it is not quite yet the Russian people who are the target of prejudicial feelings. The Ukrainian people just prefer a more democratic form of government. This is not apt to last, or perhaps has not lasted. If Russia is using military force against civilians some emotion and prejudice is likely to manifest.

Yeah, like I'm supposed to believe there was absolutely no anti-Russian hatred in Ukraine prior to two months ago. Even though the Holodomor has been a point of contention between Russia and Ukraine for decades, Russia took Crimea in 2014, and shortly after that an entire division of the Ukrainian military was co-opted by neo-Nazis who admire WWII-era collaborators who committed acts of genocide against not just Russians but also Jews and Poles. Give me a break.

Probably true there.

I know I am taking the side of people who want to live more as they choose, not because I hate the Russian people. They have tolerated Putin. They do have a strange idea of Russia’s place in the world. But I would not call it hate or prejudice.

Nobody asked who you hate or don't hate, so this is a non-sequitur.

A major point of Generational Dynamics is discussion of when nations exercise prejudice and hate. I want it known where I stand.

(If this is to be continued, it might to go to another thread.)