Generational Dynamics World View News

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by John »

** 29-Oct-2019 World View: Exponential increases in computing power
Warren Dew wrote: > While I agree with the "fast enough computer" theory, I don't
> necessarily agree with the idea that we'll get computers fast
> enough and efficient enough.

> Here's the issue: for decades, Moore's law was driven by reduction
> in processor size. Unfortunately, within the past decade, that
> reduction reached a physical limit as circuits on the chips shrank
> to the point that inductance effects between adjacent "wires"
> became limiting.

> At this point, Moore's law is being driven by parallelism instead
> of more powerful processors: having larger numbers of the same old
> processors running in parallel. That can still result in ever more
> powerful computers - but they will also be ever larger and consume
> ever more energy. That limits their usefulness in certain
> applications, in particular mobile applications.

> In 2050, the best artists may well be computers which fill
> buildings. We may still be traveling around town in Uber and Lyft
> vehicles driven by human beings, however.
Nobody believes this. You're saying that progress in computer
technology, which has been proceeding exponentially for decades, is
now stone cold dead.

This reminds me of that guy in the 1880s who said that the US Patent
Office should be closed, because everything important had already been
invented.

Ray Kurzweil showed that the exponential growth of computer power
didn't start with transistors. He showed that if you start with the
machines used in the 1890 census, then consider new variations of card
processing machines over the decades, and then vacuum tubes, then
transistors were simply the next step. So computing power has been
doubling every 18 months at least since the 1890s.

I've been reading for years that the demise of Moore's law would
occur in the 2000s, and yet here it is in 2019, still going strong.

New technologies are coming along -- quantum computing, molecular
computing, nano computing. One or more of these technologies will
continue the exponential growth curve for computer power.

Here's one of my favorite graphs:

Image
  • Efficiency of illumination sources -- increases exponentially
    through multiple technologies


This graph shows that the efficiency of illumination sources increased
exponentially for many decades, through one technology after another.

Exponential technology trend forecasting is very mysterious,
because it happens all over the place, and no one understands why.

** Book I / Chapter 11 -- Trend Forecasting
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... .trend.htm

That book chapter discusses the efficiency of illumination sources and
several other examples. Another example is the development of jet
planes, which became available in WW II. Most people claim that jet
planes were invented BECAUSE OF WW II, but that isn't true. Jet
planes became available at precisely the correct time to continue the
exponential growth of maximum speed of military aircraft.

I tried to explain exponential trend forecasting in my 2005 article on
the Singularity, reposted in 2015:

** Artificial Intelligence and the Singularity by 2030
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... 151228.htm

However, the proof that I provided in that chapter has a flaw, as I
explained. So it remains mysterious.

But even though I can't always explain it, that doesn't mean it isn't
happening. Computing power will continue to grow exponentially, and
the Singularity is coming soon.

Higgenbotham
Posts: 7597
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Higgenbotham »

John wrote:** 29-Oct-2019 World View: Exponential increases in computing power

Computing power will continue to grow exponentially, and
the Singularity is coming soon.
Here's my litmus test for when we can say AI has surpassed human intelligence:
An AI team clones a human
An AI surgical team replaces the brain in the cloned human with an artificial brain the AI team has built
The cloned human then quarterbacks an NFL team to a Super Bowl victory
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.

John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by John »

** 29-Oct-2019 World View: Frankenstein's Monster and the Singularity
John wrote: > ** 29-Oct-2019 World View: Exponential
> increases in computing power


> Computing power will continue to grow exponentially, and the
> Singularity is coming soon.
Higgenbotham wrote: > Here's my litmus test for when we can say AI has surpassed human
> intelligence:

> An AI team clones a human
> An AI surgical team replaces the brain in the cloned human with an
> artificial brain the AI team has built
> The cloned human then quarterbacks an NFL team to a Super Bowl
> victory
Lol! That's a great litmus test, but it looks like a recipe for
creating a new Frankenstein's monster, and I doubt that any NFL teams
would be willing to allow Frankenstein's monster on their team (or on
their opponents' teams).

As you probably know, the Turing Test was devised by Alan Turing years
ago. You ask a computer questions and get answers, and the test is
whether you can tell whether the answers you're getting are from a
human being or computer. If you can't tell the difference, the the
computer is intelligent.

I suspect that we've already surpassed the Turing Test or, if not,
then we're very close -- and in fact it was satisfied years ago by IBM
Watson's Jeopardy challenge.

A test that I used to propose was that a computer would be intelligent
if it could drive a bus down New York's Fifth Avenue, follow all the
traffic laws, pick up and drop off passengers, make change and answer
their questions. Given the recent advances in autonomous self-driven
cars, I believe that this test could be satisfied today.

The test that you're proposing is more difficult because you want the
computer to be able to run around and play football. The "run around"
part is still a few years off. But today we have plenty of examples
of automated manufacturing. A computer could use a 3-d printer to
create a humanoid, and install motors to move the feet, hands and
fingers. Then it could install a computer into the humanoid's head,
with the appropriate software, and you've got your Frankenstein's
monster. I think that this would be possible within five years or so.

None of these tests is really enough to say that the Singularity has
occurred, since they all have narrowly defined functionality.

The Singularity will truly have been reached when your computerized
humanoid can walk around and do everything that a human can do -- walk
into a grocery store and buy groceries, walk into a clothing store and
buy clothing, go into a bowling alley and bowl, perform CPR, have sex
with a human, and so forth. If the Singularity occurs in 2030, then
this kind of functionality should be possible within a few years after
that.

Guest

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Guest »

Higgenbotham wrote:
John wrote:** 29-Oct-2019 World View: Exponential increases in computing power

Computing power will continue to grow exponentially, and
the Singularity is coming soon.
Here's my litmus test for when we can say AI has surpassed human intelligence:
An AI team clones a human
An AI surgical team replaces the brain in the cloned human with an artificial brain the AI team has built
The cloned human then quarterbacks an NFL team to a Super Bowl victory
Will the clone take a knee to protest white racism before the game? :lol:

Guest

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Guest »

Islam is right about women.

Higgenbotham
Posts: 7597
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Higgenbotham »

John wrote:** 29-Oct-2019 World View: Frankenstein's Monster and the Singularity

The Singularity will truly have been reached when your computerized
humanoid can walk around and do everything that a human can do -- walk
into a grocery store and buy groceries, walk into a clothing store and
buy clothing, go into a bowling alley and bowl, perform CPR, have sex
with a human, and so forth.
Basically I agree with that. At that point, there might be some debate as to whether the humanoid is more adept or less adept at these human tasks. If you picked a few things that humans would have great difficulty doing and only certain humans could do even one of those things (like perform surgery or compete in professional sports), then I think that debate would be put to rest.

The last objection might be that the humanoid is great by itself, but can it function as part of a team? And when it can function as part of a scientific or sports team, then I think all final objections would be put to rest.
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.

Guest

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Guest »

The Singularity will truly have been reached when your computerized
humanoid can walk around and do everything that a human can do -- walk
into a grocery store and buy groceries, walk into a clothing store and
buy clothing, go into a bowling alley and bowl, perform CPR, have sex
with a human, and so forth. If the Singularity occurs in 2030, then
this kind of functionality should be possible within a few years after
that.
What good will people be then? We won't be needed.

Gild

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Gild »

George Gilder had a good quote on AI: it's not so much an intelligence as it is an idiot savant, capable only of doing a specific task it's been trained for over and over again with a high degree of capability.

utahbob
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:10 am

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by utahbob »

John,

Good graph!


by Higgenbotham » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:39 pm

Here's my litmus test for when we can say AI has surpassed human intelligence:
An AI team clones a human
An AI surgical team replaces the brain in the cloned human with an artificial brain the AI team has built
The cloned human then quarterbacks an NFL team to a Super Bowl victory


The New England Patriots under Coach Belichick will take the next super Tom Brady in a heartbeat to win the 8th and 9th Super bowls. The Pats have a history of reclamation projects. :lol:

John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by John »

** 31-Oct-2019 World View: Global protests

The BBC has done an interesting story on the spread of global
protests.

Image
  • Top row (L-R): Barcelona/ClimateChange/Russia; Middle row:
    Bolivia/HongKong/Iraq; Bottom row: Ecuador/Chile/Lebanon
    (BBC)


The BBC noted that the number of countries with large protests has
grown dramatically in the last few months.

This is of course true. In this generational Crisis era, where
xenophobia and nationalism are occurring around the world, the growth
in the number of crises is not a surprise. Using Winston Churchill's
words, this is all "The Gathering Storm" that's leading to World War
III.

The story on global protests was triggered by the protests in Chile,
which have forced Chile to cancel plans to hold two international
conferences. One was an economic conference where Donald Trump and Xi
Jinping were supposed to attend and sign a trade deal, and the other
was a climate change conference.

The BBC report provided a one or two sentence summary for each
country. Here they are (my transcription):
  • In Lebanon, it started with the introduction of new charges
    for phone calls on WhatsApp. On Tuesday after two weeks of protests,
    prime minister Saad Hariri stood down.
  • In Chile, a 4% rise in subway fares brought a million people there
    out into the street.
  • Ecuador's government has been forced to repeal a bill that would
    have ended fuel subsidies.
  • In Bolivia, they've been fighting street battles since the
    election on October 20. President Morales is trying to hang on for a
    fourth term.
  • In Hong Kong, the unrest has moved well beyond the Extradition
    Bill that sparked the protests, and is now being driven by a much
    wider set of grievances.
  • In Iraq, thousands have defied a curfew to demand more jobs,
    better public services and an end to corruption. Some 200 people have
    died there so far.
  • In Russia, it was the exclusion of opposition candidates from
    council elections.
  • In Barcelona Spain, the jailing of separatist leaders from
    Catalonia.
  • And across the world in recent week,s we've had recent climate
    change protests in more than 200 countries.
While I was typing this, I hear UK labor leader Jeremy Corbyn describe
Brexit as the greatest crisis the UK has ever face. And just a few
minutes ago the American House of Representatives just voted to take
the impeachment carnival another step further. So we can add the US
and US to the BBC list of countries in crisis.

We should also add Syria and Yemen to the list because they're
at war. Egypt is also in crisis.

And we should also add Iran to the list, because the protests in
Iraq and Lebanon are really not Sunni vs Shia, but are actually
directed against the influence of Iran.

All of the protests are based on worsening economies, and that's
happening because the growing debt bubble days have largely ended, and
so there is much less money in the world than there used to be,
meaning that there are many more people who cannot get money to buy
food with.

The world is being held together with duct tape and rubber bands, and
at some point a rubber band will snap, and that will lead to the first
declaration of war, and an escalating cycle of wars.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests