Religion / End Times

[JDav]

As an Anglican, I can tell you that you are trapped in the Vatican tunnel. God does not have mortal gate keepers (Catholic priests). Man need only pray to be heard by God. No bishops or Pope necessary.

The end.

So, why are you an Anglican? Is it because you truly believe to the depths of your being that it is the one true church on earth created by Jesus Christ? Or is it because it aligns with your personal political, social, and moral beliefs? Is it easy being Anglican? Being Catholic is hard, not because of any "rules", but because doing the things that it takes to get to heaven go against our sinful human natures, yet with Jesus' example He showed us the way through this narrowest of gates.

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

The RC church's own pope refuses to follow the rules; is it because he has reasoned his way out of it? The Catholic church is littered with evil popes. Francis is not the first pope to go off the reservation. The Catholic church has too many holes in it now for anyone inside it to judge others and declare their church unfit. (Insert vomiting smiley face here)

Every organization run by men is littered with evil men. On that basis, what other group can you belong to? Hell, you probably can't even be a member of your own family - I know I couldn't. If that's your criteria then you must be living as a hermit in a hovel somewhere. Obviously you are not. I'm not judging anyone - your reply has nothing to do with what I said. I just asked the Anglican how he came to have his Anglican beliefs, and stated how I came to have mine.

[JDav]

Cultures and morality evolve faster than religions. If God is perfect, how can he change? If God approved an old doctrine, how can he keep up with humanity? In my youth I had an argument with God, even if he chose not to participate. In the end I came to describe myself as a devout agnostic. Does one cleave to old and once honorable thought, or adopt to what man has found best? Lots of earnest and devoted people and organizations have positioned themselves at either extreme, and all points between.

Your point makes sense if you believe that we created God to serve us, rather than God creating us to serve Him. God could have created us and forced us to love and serve him, but where would the merit be in that? He gave us free will with the desire that we would use it to choose to love and serve him. Given our sinful nature, few do. Many say, "I talked to God but he didn't listen, or didn't do what I wanted." How many say, "I listened to God, and did what He wanted?"

[Guest]

Or do you have faith at all?

I have faith in God, not popes and churches. I am Christian, albeit Anglican, but the true spirit Protestantism places faith in God before human institutions.

[GUEST]

I don't understand why Francis says what he does, but I'm only obligated to agree with and obey him when he's acting as the head of the teaching Magisterium of the Church. That is where my faith lies. He has never spoken with his Magisterial authority against any Church doctrine, though I am terribly dismayed by the confusion he causes by his public statements. I personally believe that he does it because of his (natural) tendency as a man to be liked and admired by other men.

So when the current hyena pope jumps through burning hoops backwards to protect a convicted pedophile rapist bishop in his homeland of Argentina, how does that square with Roman Catholic church doctrine?

No wonder my father walked away from the Catholic church and never looked back. (And never so much as bothered to tell me he was born and raised Catholic.)

[John]

** 12-Aug-2023 World View: The Sands of Time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxYUEmWetYw

Princes come, princes go,
An hour of pomp and show, they know.
Princes come, and over the sands of time they go

Wise men come, ever promising the riddle of life to know
Wise men come,
Ah, but over the sands, the silent sands of time, they go

Lovers come, lovers go,
And all that there is to know, lovers know,
Only lovers know.

-- From Kismet, 1951

[Bob Butler]

Cultures and morality evolve faster than religions. If God is perfect, how can he change? If God approved an old doctrine, how can he keep up with humanity? In my youth I had an argument with God, even if he chose not to participate. In the end I came to describe myself as a devout agnostic. Does one cleave to old and once honorable thought, or adopt to what man has found best? Lots of earnest and devoted people and organizations have positioned themselves at either extreme, and all points between.

Your point makes sense if you believe that we created God to serve us, rather than God creating us to serve Him. God could have created us and forced us to love and serve him, but where would the merit be in that? He gave us free will with the desire that we would use it to choose to love and serve him. Given our sinful nature, few do. Many say, "I talked to God but he didn't listen, or didn't do what I wanted." How many say, "I listened to God, and did what He wanted?"

Thing is, if you try to listen to God, you hear silence. Most end up doing as they think best and hope they end up guessing close to what God admires. Love all men. Encourage and welcome minorities in particular and one’s fellow man in general. Favor sanctuary cities and other help of those in need. Encourage fighting global warming, working for all rather than for one’s own advantage. Favor containment over conquest.

In short, be a Democrat. Older thought patterns which served well enough in the Agricultural Age don’t fit so well. From my perspective, those who proclaim themselves conservative, who favor the older thought patterns, end up opposing my best guess at His will, but He is so silent in his 'proclamations' that we have only ancient echoes of that which He desires. I find myself asking if we are loving our fellow men. Would he want us oppressing minorities, launching conquests, and putting ourselves above future generations.

But everyone seems to be able to justify what they want to be.

[JDav]

Or do you have faith at all?

I have faith in God, not popes and churches. I am Christian, albeit Anglican, but the true spirit Protestantism places faith in God before human institutions.

That's well and good. I'll ask again - why are you Anglican? What do Anglicans believe about Jesus and why do they believe it? Is adultery a sin in the Anglican Church? If it is, why are you in a church that was founded by an adulterer? Do you think that Jesus intended his church to be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic? If so, why do you believe the Anglicans are that one church? If not, how can you explain all the different teaching of all the different denominations? Some are OK with homosexuality, some not. Some are OK with abortion, some not. Most believe in contraception, except the Catholic Church. Why is contraception not the preventing of God's will to be done when he said, "Go forth, and multiply" - the preventing of God's participation in the creation of new life? They can't all be right, so which are acceptable and which aren't - and why?

Do you believe that Jesus and the Apostles and their followers got it wrong until Henry VIII came along and set everyone straight? Do you revere Henry as the father of the Anglicans? Saying bad things about the Catholic faith doesn't do anything to explain or solidify your own. The founder of the Catholic Church was Jesus Christ (the only one so founded); the Anglicans - Henry VIII. It's in the encyclopedia so it must be true, right?

These seem to be legitimate questions to ask of anyone who calls himself Christian. They're not meant as insults or attacks. I've only ever been Catholic, albeit for a while not a practicing Catholic. I know little about what other Christians believe and why. I also know that most who call themselves Catholic don't follow Church teaching. That doesn't make the Church wrong, it makes the people (and priests, bishops, and pope, where applicable) wrong.

Unfortunately, whenever I try to engage people on this I am almost always met with insults of my faith but nothing substantive in the defense of their own.

[guest]

Or do you have faith at all?

I have faith in God, not popes and churches. I am Christian, albeit Anglican, but the true spirit Protestantism places faith in God before human institutions.

That's well and good. I'll ask again - why are you Anglican? What do Anglicans believe about Jesus and why do they believe it? Is adultery a sin in the Anglican Church? If it is, why are you in a church that was founded by an adulterer? Do you think that Jesus intended his church to be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic? If so, why do you believe the Anglicans are that one church? If not, how can you explain all the different teaching of all the different denominations? Some are OK with homosexuality, some not. Some are OK with abortion, some not. Most believe in contraception, except the Catholic Church. Why is contraception not the preventing of God's will to be done when he said, "Go forth, and multiply" - the preventing of God's participation in the creation of new life? They can't all be right, so which are acceptable and which aren't - and why?

Do you believe that Jesus and the Apostles and their followers got it wrong until Henry VIII came along and set everyone straight? Do you revere Henry as the father of the Anglicans? Saying bad things about the Catholic faith doesn't do anything to explain or solidify your own. The founder of the Catholic Church was Jesus Christ (the only one so founded); the Anglicans - Henry VIII. It's in the encyclopedia so it must be true, right?

These seem to be legitimate questions to ask of anyone who calls himself Christian. They're not meant as insults or attacks. I've only ever been Catholic, albeit for a while not a practicing Catholic. I know little about what other Christians believe and why. I also know that most who call themselves Catholic don't follow Church teaching. That doesn't make the Church wrong, it makes the people (and priests, bishops, and pope, where applicable) wrong.

Unfortunately, whenever I try to engage people on this I am almost always met with insults of my faith but nothing substantive in the defense of their own.

They're not meant as insults or attacks.

You are trying very hard to insult people. It is insulting to pretend otherwise. You come across as obnoxious and deranged. If you are trying to covert the other "guests" to your faith, I doubt this is a winning strategy.

But...

Let's play your game...

I have never read about a Pope in the Bible. Maybe I missed it. Also, I don't recall Confession booths and asking a human being to absolve other human beings of their sins. And what is up with nuns? Who set that up?

Did you send your sons to Catholic schools?

I also know that most who call themselves Catholic don't follow Church teaching.

Send me a list, I volunteer to restart the Inquisition and ferret this faux-Catholics out. Now, where are my matches...

[Hey]

INow where are my matches?

Mic drop.

[Tom Mazanec]

I have never read about a Pope in the Bible. Maybe I missed it. Also, I don't recall Confession booths and asking a human being to absolve other human beings of their sins.

I don't know about nuns, but...
Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
John 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.