Religion / Theology

Topics related to theology.
Cool Breeze
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

John wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:32 pm
** 21-Jan-2022 World View: Stuff like this
John wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:17 pm
> There seems to be no limit to your hatred of and contempt for
> people of other religions and races.
Cool Breeze wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:08 pm
> Why do you say stuff like this? Not only is it false, it is
> foolish - you don't know the first thing about what I have done in
> my life, or what the state of my heart and mind are.
All I know about you is the words that you post. Look at the words in
your post that I quoted, and see why I "say stuff like this." You're
intelligent enough to figure it out.

You could do better if you wanted to.
You play truth in 90% of your posts, and are very intelligent. But 10% of your stuff is acculturated political correctness and egalitarianism, with a dash of kumbaya and relativism, which is a lie.

This is the internet, and it is written word, and the truth comes off even harsher in written word when people call things for what they are.

That's what I do. Telling the truth is not hatred. That's what the main position of the left is. I have told you this before and I will tell you again; I recommend ceasing that because it is actually more harmful to people.

John
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by John »

** 22-Jan-2022 World View: The One True Religion
Cool Breeze wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:28 am
> You play truth in 90% of your posts, and are very intelligent. But
> 10% of your stuff is acculturated political correctness and
> egalitarianism, with a dash of kumbaya and relativism, which is a
> lie.

> This is the internet, and it is written word, and the truth comes
> off even harsher in written word when people call things for what
> they are.

> That's what I do. Telling the truth is not hatred. That's what the
> main position of the left is. I have told you this before and I
> will tell you again; I recommend ceasing that because it is
> actually more harmful to people.
You don't know the truth. There are hundreds of religions, and they
all contradict each other in one way or another, so AT MOST one of
them can be "truth," and the rest are "false," or at best "partial
truth." It's possible that ALL of them are false. The probability
that your religion (whatever it is) is the ONE TRUE religion is
extremely slim to none. It is almost certain that your religion is a
"lying religion," to use your own terminology.

Assuming that a "true" religion even exists, if I had to pick it based
on purely historical evidence, I would consider the most likely choice
to be Judaism, because it's survived for many millennia and it's
spawned other major religions. My second choice would be Hinduism,
for similar reasons. I would not expect a spawned religion to be the
one true religion, assuming that such a religion even exists.

Your comments about Mormonism give the impression that you feel
threatened by Mormonism. And you seem to have an endless supply of
snarky remarks about Jews. These remarks give the impression of envy,
jealousy and resentfulness, just as you might call a woman a whore
when she dumps you for a better man. Perhaps in your heart you're
afraid that Judaism is the one true religion, and you're exhibiting
cognitive dissonance.

I don't know whom you expect to convince by your anti-Semitic remarks
about Jews, but I doubt that you're convincing anyone in this forum of
anything.

However, there's always the possibiility that someone may hear you and
respond in an unxpected way. Malik Faisal Akram may have been
listening to someone exactly like you when he attacked the Texas
synagogue last weekend.

In fact, Jews are the most frequent targets of hate crimes, and it's
partially due to the encouragement of statements like the ones that
you make. You may think that your hatred of Jews is somehow more
virtuous than Akram's hatred of Jews, but it's the same hatred.
> "OPINION: Rise in antisemitism reveals left's double
> standard

> The statements, “Happy Holocaust” and “Peace be upon Hitler,"
> sound like Nazi propaganda from 1940s Germany. But they’re not.

> These are comments posted in 2021 on the TikTok page of
> 97-year-old Holocaust survivor, Lily Ebert. According to the
> U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, antisemitic hate crimes have
> doubled since 2020.

> The commission reported:

> “In Salt Lake City, a man scratched a swastika into the front door
> of an Orthodox synagogue, and in Alaska, Nazi imagery was posted
> on a synagogue. In Bal Harbour, Florida four men yelled ‘Die Jew’
> at a man wearing a yarmulke, then threatened to rape his wife and
> daughter. In Midtown Manhattan, a group of people attacked a
> Jewish man in the middle of the street in broad daylight. The man,
> wearing a yarmulke and walking to a pro-Israel protest, was called
> ‘dirty Jew,’ and was told, ‘F--- Israel, we’re going to kill you."

> Each of these incidents occurred in the United States of America
> over the past year. Why has there not been more outrage and media
> coverage? Where are the Instagram posts saying #JewishLivesMatter?
> Where are the world-famous celebrities on social media with their
> vitriolic mantras about stopping racism and hate?

> The answer is: nowhere and none. And it's not because these
> incidents did not happen or are not serious. It is because the
> mainstream liberal mindset in 2021 picks and chooses which groups
> they deem as being oppressed or being worthy of support."

> https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/opi ... 050784002/
If you're going to post in this forum, I expect you to be avoid
bigotry, racism, xenophobia and anti-Semitism. All the other members
seem to be able to do it, so you can too. If you can't control
yourself, then just confine yourself to bitcoin and inflation.

spottybrowncow
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:06 am

Re: Religion / Theology

Post by spottybrowncow »

I believe that Christianity is the true religion, but I think people make it a lot harder than it has to be.

It never made sense to me that people could "work" their way to heaven, because we're all mortal dust. The concept of God taking on human form, experiencing human suffering and death, and then offering it as full payment for humans' sins IF ONLY THEY WILL ACCEPT HIS GIFT OF GRACE is about as complicated as it needs to get. What message could be more beautiful, or exciting? Nothing.

What about the people who lived and died before Christ, or were never exposed to his word? Pondering such questions may be an interesting intellectual exercise, but I'm quite content that God is able to sort this all out and do the right thing.

But I fully understand that not everyone thinks like me, and, like it or not, we have to (or should) try to get along. My personal experiences with Jews and Mormons (since that's who we're talking about currently) has almost always been that they share my values of family, industry, honesty, etc. While I'm always happy to discuss theology if asked, I don't see how anything productive can come from trying to offend people for no reason.

Navigator
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Navigator »

spottybrowncow wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:26 pm
I believe that Christianity is the true religion, but I think people make it a lot harder than it has to be.

It never made sense to me that people could "work" their way to heaven, because we're all mortal dust. The concept of God taking on human form, experiencing human suffering and death, and then offering it as full payment for humans' sins IF ONLY THEY WILL ACCEPT HIS GIFT OF GRACE is about as complicated as it needs to get. What message could be more beautiful, or exciting? Nothing.

What about the people who lived and died before Christ, or were never exposed to his word? Pondering such questions may be an interesting intellectual exercise, but I'm quite content that God is able to sort this all out and do the right thing.

But I fully understand that not everyone thinks like me, and, like it or not, we have to (or should) try to get along. My personal experiences with Jews and Mormons (since that's who we're talking about currently) has almost always been that they share my values of family, industry, honesty, etc. While I'm always happy to discuss theology if asked, I don't see how anything productive can come from trying to offend people for no reason.
A view Christianity as the foundation, as you mention above. But there is a lot of additional gospel information that is available. Much of it has to do with the "end times". I felt I needed to expound on some of the missing information first (nature of God/Christ, our personal existence before birth, and so on) so that I could lay a foundation for what I am about to go into.

BTW, your comments point to yet something else that was lost, that is what about those who lived/died without ever hearing about Christ. The answer is alluded to in 1 Cor 15:29
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

The original Church Christ set up during his mortal ministry practiced baptism for the dead. This is how those who had not heard of Christ during their mortal lives have the opportunity to accept him prior to the final judgement.

There is a bit more to it that, but that is the basic principle. It is yet another example of knowledge that was lost from the primitive Church, and had to be restored.

The Church of Jesus Christ builds temples. A main purpose of those temples is to allow people to perform proxy ordinances, like baptism, for those that died without the opportunity to accept Christ or to make those covenants with him that he and his Father require of us (baptism). It is then up to that person, who still exists, to accept this ordinance or not, as they still have their agency.

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Tom Mazanec
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Tom Mazanec »

Mormonism has conflicts with science on various issues, specially the ancestry of native Americans. This may be its equivalent of Geocentrism/Heliocentrism in my Church's history.
Of course, most people are 'wrong'. The best case would be if the Sunni Islam were the true religion, since that one has the largest membership (85% of 1.6 billion out of 7.6 billion as of 2019 ie 1.36 billion). I am convinced by historical evidence that Jesus rose from the dead and was therefore what he claimed to be, the Son of God. I am also convinced that the RCC is the Church he founded that would last till the end of the world. That one is in a photo finish (1.34 billion). YMMV.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

Cool Breeze
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

John wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:12 pm
If you're going to post in this forum, I expect you to be avoid
bigotry, racism, xenophobia and anti-Semitism. All the other members
seem to be able to do it, so you can too. If you can't control
yourself, then just confine yourself to bitcoin and inflation.
Ok, but at least change your last name to Psaki, since you have all the leftist garbage language lies included in these type of posts. You sound like an old woman complaining about historical things, not a man. Men don't label others "bigots", "racists", "xenophobes", "anti-semites", etc when they can't even define the terms. That's the Saul Alinsky playbook, and it's weak - full of lies and deception.

For the record, I do not and have never promoted violence in any way against any human being (except as a response of self defense to a violent attacker). For you to suggest that I have a part in promoting violence against any group of people indiscriminately is disgusting and is unbecoming of a guy as smart as you are. Stop it.

Cool Breeze
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

Tom Mazanec wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:37 am
Mormonism has conflicts with science on various issues, specially the ancestry of native Americans. This may be its equivalent of Geocentrism/Heliocentrism in my Church's history.
Of course, most people are 'wrong'. The best case would be if the Sunni Islam were the true religion, since that one has the largest membership (85% of 1.6 billion out of 7.6 billion as of 2019 ie 1.36 billion). I am convinced by historical evidence that Jesus rose from the dead and was therefore what he claimed to be, the Son of God. I am also convinced that the RCC is the Church he founded that would last till the end of the world. That one is in a photo finish (1.34 billion). YMMV.
John doesn't even know Christianity well enough to understand what "judaism" is - rabbinical judaism now. The Christians are the real "jews", always were. They are the people that follow the one true God. Sometimes well, sometimes not well at all and in rebellion. A sad thing, but true.

Cool Breeze
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

spottybrowncow wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:26 pm
While I'm always happy to discuss theology if asked, I don't see how anything productive can come from trying to offend people for no reason.
Spotty, I love you man, but just have to clarify this. The point of this forum is to seek the truth about the world and best describe it. The point of "religion" is a human trying to best understand the world and his meaning in it, and this includes revelation from God who is the Creator of all. Secure people can and should debate GenDynamics, and they can and should debate what is true in the world and why they believe so - or show why one should exclude a trap, a lie, something that might set them off the path to further discovering what is true. Only insecure people get "offended". People who love the truth are ok with being corrected and changing their views - this is the very essence of seeking the truth. I know this is a rare characteristic, but it is true. It used to be also how science worked, as you know.

spottybrowncow
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by spottybrowncow »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:52 am
Spotty, I love you man, but just have to clarify this.
This thread is not about science and proof and reaching an objective universal reality for all, wherein you can say, "See, I told you man, 2+2=4, just look!" Every true religious believer has made his or her own Kierkegaardian "leap of faith," for his or her own personal reasons. Therefore, no one's belief can be objectively proven or disproven.

That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with trying to persuade others, by trying to present your belief system as more attractive (for whatever reason) than theirs, and if there's value to this thread, that's where it lies. It's just counterproductive to what we're presumably trying to achieve here to simply tell people their religious beliefs are wrong.

Cool Breeze
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

spottybrowncow wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:01 pm
Cool Breeze wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:52 am
Spotty, I love you man, but just have to clarify this.
This thread is not about science and proof and reaching an objective universal reality for all, wherein you can say, "See, I told you man, 2+2=4, just look!" Every true religious believer has made his or her own Kierkegaardian "leap of faith," for his or her own personal reasons. Therefore, no one's belief can be objectively proven or disproven.

That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with trying to persuade others, by trying to present your belief system as more attractive (for whatever reason) than theirs, and if there's value to this thread, that's where it lies. It's just counterproductive to what we're presumably trying to achieve here to simply tell people their religious beliefs are wrong.
I understand what you are saying, but should one not call things for what they are? If we can do genetic tests that disprove claims of various aspects of Mormonism, beyond all the other dubious claims, should we not do that? Should we not point out that Muhammad is not a good example to live by (the opposite of the claim of islam), if you examine his life?

That's what I'm getting at. If you can't do it on the internet, you surely aren't going to do it in many places. That's the value, social etiquette is removed and if you are honest and earnest, though it might be hard hitting, the truth is put out plainly on media like this. Is there a lot of garbage to sift through on the internet at the same time? Yes, that's a cost that's fairly large to the benefit, since anyone can post anything, indeed.

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