Religion / Theology

Topics related to theology.
Cool Breeze
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

I thought you knew his life, and studied Islam? The uswa hasana, or do you not know that? Or that a chapter of the Quran is the "spoils of war", that he had demonic visions (you know more than Sal Rushdie too, right?), that he had sex with girls less than 10 years of age, that he beheaded personally a high number of the qurayza jews (their story, not mine). Shall I keep going, or are you walking into another realm that you pretend to know more than someone else about, only to get smacked down on request?

Time for some humility.

Cool Breeze
Posts: 2183
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

John wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:56 pm
You're standing in judgment of God's motives? Do you really believe
that you understand God's purpose, or that you know more than God
does? Or are you displaying willful ignorance?
It's embarrassing for you to ask or suggest such things. Only cranks take on these types of silly questions, and you've done this quite a few time on this topic.

I think the worst thing, all in all, is that you don't know what the eastern orthodox church teaches. It's sad, because it is a treasure that you don't value, among other things. But that's what Boomer and older America were formed in ... relativism. Everyone is the same, right John? People with the most cursory understanding of religions wouldn't mistake anything in Islam as being remotely similar to other religions like Christianity, or even Zoroastrianism, which it wiped off the face of the planet more or less (funny again this betrays your points and shows ignorance about world religions generally speaking). Ask anyone else on this board about Islam and they'll also tell you you have no clue what you're talking about.

I'm happy to say that you get a lot of things right otherwise (politically, generally speaking), though.

Navigator
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:15 pm

Reasons for Conversion

Post by Navigator »

John wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:34 pm
Another purpose would be to try to convert someone. For the last few
days, I've been trying to think of situations where I was personally
aware of someone converting from one religion to another because the
other religion was somehow "better."

People do not select religions on the basis of which one is "best."
Almost universally, a person's religion is selected for him by his
parents and his society, and he stays with the religion for the rest
of his life.

I'm aware of a few conversions for the sake of marriage. The most
famous one that I'm aware of is when Britain's prime minister
Tony Blair stepped down, and he announced that it "felt right"
to convert from his Anglican religion to the Catholic religion
of his wife Cherie.

There are other reasons for conversion. I'm told that in the past a
Catholic evangelist might pay someone in a foreign land $5 to convert
to become a Catholic. There are also cases when someone is forced to
convert while staring down the barrel of a gun. But these are not
cases where a conversion takes place because one religion is "better"
than another.
There are a few general reasons for conversion, and one VERY specific one that I will cover momentarily.

You have covered some of the general reasons. They range from convenience to finding a faith that is more in line with a person’s personal views.

But there is one reason I would like to put forward that I believe is crucial. This has to do with the Authority to Act in God’s name.

God the Father requires of us to make specific covenants with him in this life (and live up to our part of these covenants) in order to return to him and enable our own further eternal progression. Chief among these is the covenant of Baptism.

The issue is that the covenant is only valid if it is performed by someone who has the authority to do so, meaning that God recognizes the authority of the person who does the baptizing. Christ had to go and find John the Baptist to baptize him (even Christ himself had to make this covenant with God the Father in order to return to his presence). He could have gone to someone else, but that person’s authority would not have been recognized by God.

This authority to act in God’s name is the Holy Priesthood. God has it, Christ got it from him personally, and the record is pretty clear of Christ giving it specifically to others (his Apostles and Disciples, who he gave it to by the laying on of hands).

Later on, after Christ had left his Apostles, the Apostles organized churches throughout the Roman world. As they did so, they ordained people to the priesthood. This is shown in Acts 14:23
23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

God decides who has the authority to act in his name. I do not believe that people can decide for themselves that they have this power, or that they can get it because they want it, or because they went to some specific school.

Along with much of the information that I believe was lost during the Dark Ages, I believe the authority to act in God’s name was also lost. In this case lost through unrighteousness, as the authority was revoked by God, due to sin (such as immorality or selling priesthood offices, or similar conduct).

Not only did the Information I have previously discussed in this thread require “restoration” through modern day prophecy, but God needed to restore the authority to act in his name and to perform the ordinances that lead back to him.

I believe that this was done through Joseph Smith in the 1820s. This belief is based on: reading the Book of Mormon as a touchstone (evidence) that God was working through him to restore these things; praying about that; receiving a witness that this was the truth.

Since I (and others) have decided that only the Church of Jesus Christ has the authority to act in his name, I believe that baptisms done by others WITHOUT the proper authority do not have validity in God’s eyes.

I believe that those that want to make valid covenants with God, such as baptism, must have this done by those who have the proper authority. For this reason, those that convert to the Church of Jesus Christ are baptized, even though they may have been previously been baptized by another denomination.

I should also point out that Baptism in the Church of Jesus Christ is done by immersion, and is only required of those who can tell the difference between right and wrong.

Cool Breeze
Posts: 2183
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Re: Reasons for Conversion

Post by Cool Breeze »

Navigator wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:45 pm
Along with much of the information that I believe was lost during the Dark Ages, I believe the authority to act in God’s name was also lost. In this case lost through unrighteousness, as the authority was revoked by God, due to sin (such as immorality or selling priesthood offices, or similar conduct).
Good post, until the insertion of something that isn't true, doesn't need to be true, and is essentially pulled out of a cereal box. You're interacting with someone whose forefathers literally practice exactly the same things, decorate their holy places, and have the same doctrine since Christ and his Apostles walked the earth. That's what apostolic succession is. What I'm saying is that truth. I don't have to invent some random thing I can't possibly prove (some rando from New York declares all others in a lost conspiracy fable) in the face of it already being known that it's not true. We know we never lost anything because you can go back in time and identify the temples, the writings, the practice, the language of the gospels. All the same, and all what is now called orthodox.

Muhammad did the same thing, as I've pointed out. Everyone before me made stuff up, corrupted it, and I have the new revealed truth. Just believe me, though I'm a middle eastern tribal warlord. Interesting how that repeats itself. Why would I believe any of this when I know for a fact what you are saying is wrong AND I can verify it?

I'm not posting to make you feel bad, or to do anything other than bear witness to what we know is true. And (most importantly) can be verified. You don't have to trust me, just follow the evidence. It's all there. I just think you don't know it, and it seems that you are only aware of another schismatic church, now called the Roman Catholic church (that did and still does some bad things, like all can, but are really quite obvious and detrimental for the past few hundred years).

John
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Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Religion / Theology

Post by John »

** 1-Feb-2022 World View: Myths and Misinterpretations
Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:46 pm
> I thought you knew his life, and studied Islam? The uswa hasana,
> or do you not know that? Or that a chapter of the Quran is the
> "spoils of war", that he had demonic visions (you know more than
> Sal Rushdie too, right?), that he had sex with girls less than 10
> years of age, that he beheaded personally a high number of the
> qurayza jews (their story, not mine). Shall I keep going, or are
> you walking into another realm that you pretend to know more than
> someone else about, only to get smacked down on request?
Unfortunately, I've boxed myself into the position where I have to
be the one to defend Islam and Mohammed. But given this list of myths
and misinterpretations, I really have no choice.

Here's a web page that you might enjoy:

*** False Charges Against Christ
https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... nst-christ

That page shows that it's as easy to come up with a list of myths and
misinterpretations about Christ's life as you have done for Mohammed's
life.

One reason that I wrote my book on Iran is to educate people like you
who know nothing about Islam and the life of Mohammed. I'm sure you
can come up with new myths faster than I can educate you about them,
but I'll try here to respond to a couple of items in your list.

* The Qurayza Jews: This refers to the Battle of the Trench in 627,
during the middle of the massive ethnic crisis war between Mecca and
Medina. In 627, a huge army of 10,000 Arabs attacked the 3,000
Muslims in Medina. The Qurayza tribe had previously agreed with
Mohammed to remain neutral, but at the last moment, they betrayed the
Muslims and joined the attack on Mohammed and the Muslims. The
Muslims won through superior fighting (including building a trench).
I don't know if the Qurayzas were beheaded or killed in some other
way, but if they hadn't been killed, they would have killed the
Muslims.

It's worth pointing out that Mohammed liked Jews ("people of the
Book"). The Qurayza Jews were not killed because they were Jews,
which is what you claim, but because they had betrayed the Muslims and
joined with Arab tribes in attacking the Muslims in the middle of a
bloody war.

* Demonic Verses: Like many religious prophets, Mohammed had visions,
and many prophets say that there were sometimes fooled by Satan.
Early in his ministry, he had a vision about three goddesses, a vision
that was condemned by his peers. Later, he recanted the vision,
saying that he had been fooled by Satan. Here's a web page that
discusses the Satanic verses:

*** What were the original Satanic Verses, alluded to in the title of
*** Salman Rushdie's novel?
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandque ... 30,00.html


* Sex with young girls: This is the favorite of people like you who
know nothing about Islam or Mohammed, but grab onto something to
ridicule them. Mohammed was monogamously married to his first wife
Khadijah (555-619) for 25 years, but when she died in 619, he married
Aisha. I'll just quote the text from my book:
> "Now let's turn to another issue, that many people
> consider even more contentious. Apparently, after the death of
> Mohammed's first wife Khadijah, Mohammed married Aisha bint Abi
> Bakr (605-678 or 614-678) when she was six years old, but they did
> not consummate the marriage ("have sex") until she was nine years
> old, at which time she was considered to be old enough. Mohammed
> is accused of being a pedophile because of this.

> Aisha was the daughter of Abu Bakr (573-634), one of Mohammed's
> closest companions during his lifetime, and selected as the first
> Caliph following Mohammed's death. According to contemporary
> narratives, Mohammed married Aisha at the request of her father.

> Today, marriage for a girl under age 15 is illegal in most
> countries, including Muslim countries, and having sex with a 9
> year old girl is shocking to almost everyone. On the other hand,
> there are often news stories about very young girls being forced
> into marriage with an older man by their parents, especially if
> the parents do not have the money or means to provide for their
> daughters, and want protection for their daughters.

> But is it just a cultural issue? Defenders of Mohammed claim that
> it clearly is. There were no restrictions on marriage by young
> girls at Mohammed's time, and there weren't until recent times.
> There were probably many such marriages at the time, and they may
> well have been justified in the same way that polygamy is
> justified -- the best protection for a girl is to be married, and
> the best way to keep a society stable is to make sure that there
> are not many unattached girls and women walking around. Defenders
> of Mohammed say that today's cultural standards should not be
> applied to marriages that were common practice at the time of
> Mohammed.

> The government web site girlshealth.gov says that puberty in girls
> can begin as early as age 8. (It's usually two or three years
> later for boys.) That indicates that a girl at age 9 is
> biologically able to have sex, and even get pregnant.

> Let me try to explain this another way. As I'm writing this
> chapter, there are news stories of a BBC investigation in the town
> of Diepsloot, near Johannesburg, South Africa. According to the
> report, "This is one of the most dangerous places in Johannesburg.
> If you are found to be walking at night, you risk your life
> 100%. Rape is something that is very common, and it can often end
> in murder too." The 43 minute BBC documentary interviewed not
> only victims of rape, but also self-confessed rapists who were
> willing to admit their activities, including rape with total
> impunity.

> There's little doubt that such cultures exist in many places in
> the world today. Rape with impunity of girls and women is
> commonplace today wherever there is war or any kind of breakdown
> in civil control. It's very likely that such a culture also
> existed at Mohammed's time, in the chaos of war.

> So you can ask yourself whether it's plausible that a father like
> Abu Bakr would ask his close companion Mohammed, whose wife
> Khadijah had recently died, to marry his very young daughter
> Aisha, and the answer is that from the father's point of view,
> there are likely only two choices: let her walk around unattached
> and risk the almost certain probability of being raped, or marry a
> man who will love her and take care of her. And it's worth
> pointing out that a man who rapes a single young girl is
> committing a crime against someone with little standing, while a
> man raping a married young girl is committing a crime against the
> husband, a man who may very well murder the rapist.

> The question that is raised is whether a girl at that age is
> emotionally able to marry and have sex. That judgment is way
> beyond my skill set, but I take note of the fact that Mohammed
> always referred to Aisha as his favorite wife and, after he died
> in 632, Aisha had a long life where she was extremely powerful and
> respected, dying in 678. As far as I can tell, for Aisha at
> least, marriage at age 9 resulted in a good life for her.

> I've included this discussion of polygamy and pedophilia in this
> book because I've promised to deal with controversies within Islam
> in a respectful, balanced and non-ideological way. I hope readers
> will find this information useful."
John Xenakis is author of: "World View: Iran's Struggle for Supremacy
-- Tehran's Obsession to Redraw the Map of the Middle East"
(Generational Theory Book Series, Book 1) Paperback: 153 pages, over
100 source references, $7.00
http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... s.irbk.htm
https://www.amazon.com/World-View-Supre ... 732738610/

What's clear is that you know absolutely nothing about the history
of Islam and Mohammed. I'm sure you can come up with more myths
and misinterpretations faster than I can research and respond to them.
But that's the key -- do your own research, and figure out for
yourself why you're wrong. Reading my book would be a good start.
Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:46 pm
> Time for some humility.
This is laughable. You have no self-awareness at all. You know
nothing about Islam, Mohammed, or Mormonism, and yet you have so
little humility that you think you can sit in judgment and condemn
those entire religions and all the people who follow them, and you
imagine that your judgments are credible, as if anyone cares what you
think.

In another thread, richard5za said he was curious to know why you're a
member of this forum. I'm curious about the same thing. Why do you
keep posting this stuff? You have no idea what you're talking about,
but you do it anyway.
John wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:56 pm
> You're standing in judgment of God's motives? Do you really
> believe that you understand God's purpose, or that you know more
> than God does? Or are you displaying willful ignorance?
Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:48 pm
> It's embarrassing for you to ask or suggest such things. Only
> cranks take on these types of silly questions, and you've done
> this quite a few time on this topic.
The reason that you're embarrassed is because it's true. You know
that it's true because you're evading it by calling it a crank
question. You're completely full of crap on so many subjects, but
nothing astounds me more than seeing you sit in judgment on entire
religions that you know absolutely nothing about.

You should heed Isaiah 55:8-9:
> "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are
> your ways My ways," declares the LORD. "For as the heavens are
> higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My
> thoughts than your thoughts."
Instead of making up false accusations and myths about Mohammed, you
should show some humility and ask yourself why God sent Mohammed to
the Arabs to create a new religion with billions of adherents today.
Isaiah says that you have no idea what God's purpose is, and you
should heed that warning, instead of sitting in judgment on God and
his motives.

Cool Breeze
Posts: 2183
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

John wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:28 pm
Unfortunately, I've boxed myself into the position where I have to
be the one to defend Islam and Mohammed. But given this list of myths
and misinterpretations, I really have no choice.
Oh really? Why is that unfortunate?
One reason that I wrote my book on Iran is to educate people like you
who know nothing about Islam and the life of Mohammed.
Oh, I know nothing? I just cite the quran and hadith. My "myths"? I didn't write those.
It's worth pointing out that Mohammed liked Jews ("people of the
Book"). The Qurayza Jews were not killed because they were Jews,
which is what you claim,
You just went full retard again. Mo liked the jews? Unreal. You know more than me about Islam? I'm losing respect minute by minute.
* Demonic Verses: Like many religious prophets, Mohammed had visions,
and many prophets say that there were sometimes fooled by Satan.
Early in his ministry, he had a vision about three goddesses, a vision
that was condemned by his peers. Later, he recanted the vision,
saying that he had been fooled by Satan. Here's a web page that
discusses the Satanic verses:
Yes, thanks for agreeing with me. Demon inspired, fooled. Again, what's your point except to say, yes, you were correct in actuality, CB.
* Sex with young girls: This is the favorite of people like you who
know nothing about Islam or Mohammed, but grab onto something to
ridicule them. Mohammed was monogamously married to his first wife
Khadijah (555-619) for 25 years, but when she died in 619, he married
Aisha.
Who was 6 and he consummated it at age 9.

I didn't think you could go further retard, but thanks for that.
What's clear is that you know absolutely nothing about the history
of Islam and Mohammed. I'm sure you can come up with more myths
and misinterpretations faster than I can research and respond to them.
But that's the key -- do your own research, and figure out for
yourself why you're wrong. Reading my book would be a good start.
I just proved you don't, yet keep saying you do. You don't.

You don't even know the basic tenets of Islam, or the quran, or the doctrine of abrogation, or taqiyya.

When it comes to world religions, you're a cultural marxist.
Sad shit. But feel free to keep embarrassing yourself.

I bet the next thing you'll say is that there is no difference if I call Christ lord, or someone like Muhammad holy. Yup, no difference at all.

I don't listen to demons, or demonic inspired reasoning, thus - I don't and I won't.

John
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Location: Cambridge, MA USA
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by John »

** 01-Feb-2022 World View: The end

Babble, babble, babble.

I guess that settles it. You're sitting in judgment of God, and I'm
in full retard.

There's nothing more to say.

Cool Breeze
Posts: 2183
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

John wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:23 pm
** 01-Feb-2022 World View: The end

Babble, babble, babble.

I guess that settles it. You're sitting in judgment of God, and I'm
in full retard.

There's nothing more to say.
Right about a few things, but how am I sitting in judgment of God? Do you even believe in God?

Navigator
Posts: 769
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:15 pm

Cool Breeze Denomination

Post by Navigator »

I am curious as to Cool Breeze's denomination. Please let us know which you personally belong to.

Navigator
Posts: 769
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:15 pm

Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Navigator »

At this point I am guessing "Russian Orthodox".

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