Religion / Theology

Topics related to theology.
John
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Location: Cambridge, MA USA
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by John »

** 24-Jan-2022 World View: Social Etiquette
Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:38 am
> I understand what you are saying, but should one not call things
> for what they are? If we can do genetic tests that disprove claims
> of various aspects of Mormonism, beyond all the other dubious
> claims, should we not do that?
If you believe in a Virgin Birth, which is impossible from genetic
science, then what right have you to question genetic tests on
Mormons?

If you believe that someone can walk on water, or if you believe that
someone can rise after being dead for three days, which should be
impossible, then what right have you to question anyone else's
religion?

If you are honest and earnest, though it might be hard hitting, the
truth is put out plainly on media like this.
Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:38 am
> Should we not point out that Muhammad is not a good example to
> live by (the opposite of the claim of islam), if you examine his
> life?
If you believe in a religion that has, throughout history, committed
various forms of genocide and ethnic cleansing, then what right have
you to question the lives of people of other religions?

If you are honest and earnest, though it might be hard hitting, the
truth is put out plainly on media like this.
Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:38 am
> That's what I'm getting at. If you can't do it on the internet,
> you surely aren't going to do it in many places. That's the value,
> social etiquette is removed and if you are honest and earnest,
> though it might be hard hitting, the truth is put out plainly on
> media like this. Is there a lot of garbage to sift through on the
> internet at the same time? Yes, that's a cost that's fairly large
> to the benefit, since anyone can post anything, indeed.
The problem with the internet is that there are too many people like
yourself who don't know shit but who think that they're so smart that
they have the right to offend anyone at will.

"Social etiquette" means not making a jackass of yourself every day.

Cool Breeze
Posts: 2935
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

John wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:51 pm
** 24-Jan-2022 World View: Social Etiquette
Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:38 am
> I understand what you are saying, but should one not call things
> for what they are? If we can do genetic tests that disprove claims
> of various aspects of Mormonism, beyond all the other dubious
> claims, should we not do that?
If you believe in a Virgin Birth, which is impossible from genetic
science, then what right have you to question genetic tests on
Mormons?

If you believe that someone can walk on water, or if you believe that
someone can rise after being dead for three days, which should be
impossible, then what right have you to question anyone else's
religion?
Do you really lack this much knowledge and critical thinking, John? This is embarrassing on multiple levels. You think you just "got me" but in fact you went full retard. I can explain but unless you want to be shown to be as dumb as these questions, let's just let it go.
The problem with the internet is that there are too many people like
yourself who don't know shit but who think that they're so smart that
they have the right to offend anyone at will.
Go back to the reason why people might be "offended" (always insecure people). If the truth offends you, that's not my issue. Do I go around telling people that they are ugly? No. But on a forum about cycles, generations, nations, history, people and religion among other things, telling the truth about these large concepts is a requirement for understanding the realities of the world.

Your feelings don't help others understand things. Rather, they actually inhibit and short circuit proper analysis.

You should know this by now.

John
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by John »

** 24-Jan-2022 World View: Full Retard
Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:31 pm
> Do you really lack this much knowledge and critical thinking,
> John? This is embarrassing on multiple levels. You think you just
> "got me" but in fact you went full retard. I can explain but
> unless you want to be shown to be as dumb as these questions,
> let's just let it go. ...

> Go back to the reason why people might be "offended" (always
> insecure people). If the truth offends you, that's not my
> issue. Do I go around telling people that they are ugly? No. But
> on a world forum about nations, history, people and religion among
> other things, telling the truth about these large concepts is a
> requirement for understanding the realities of the world.

> Your feelings don't help others understand things. Rather, they
> actually inhibit and short circuit proper analysis.

> You should know this by now.
Actually, I did "get you," and got you good. My post raised several
specific issues to prove you're full of crap, and what was your
response? You didn't respond to a single one of the issues. You
simply posted a four paragraph rant of name-calling, without even
attempting to answer anything specific.

And don't flatter yourself into thinking that I'm the one that's
offended by your nonsense. I've been online since the 1970s, and I've
participated in many flame wars, and I've run into people who are a
million times more intelligent and intellectually honest than you.
You're nothing but hot air. When I talk about you being offensive,
I'm referring to the people you hate -- Jews, blacks, Indios, Mormons,
Muslims, and a whole host of others who have been targets of your
revulsion and vitriol.

So, go ahead. Take a shot at me, and explain in detail why my
previous post is in "full retard." I'll be waiting.

Navigator
Posts: 901
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:15 pm

Faith and Choice

Post by Navigator »

My objective on this thread has been to explain my personal beliefs. If others wish to accept them or reject them, that is their individual choice. I am not trying to denigrate anyone else's beliefs. What they chose to believe is their own choice. I have made mine based on what I have studied, read, and prayed about. I would encourage people to go back and read my posts in this thread from the beginning, as well as to explore the links I have provided.

I am not offended when others chose not to. It is your individual choice to chose what you want to believe (or not) and have faith in (or not). In fact, Freedom of Religion is one of the core principles upon which America was founded.

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, I believe that the Constitution of the United States was divinely inspired, and that God the Father arranged things so that the selfless individuals who comprised the vast majority of the founding fathers would be together at the right time to work on this utterly incredible document and its implementation. Given the story of human history, the US Constitution is frankly a miracle.

Matters of faith are just that. A matter of faith. Not of "scientific proof". Science is constantly finding "new" answers and rejecting old theorems. God is never going to "prove" himself to man, because one of the main things we are tested on in this life is whether or not we will chose to exercise faith in God or not.

I believe that there is a plethora of additional information and guidance God has made available to Christians, and much of this has to do with the "end times". Having explained the core of my beliefs in this thread, I will now start to explain more in the "end times" thread, using that additional information.

Cool Breeze
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: Faith and Choice

Post by Cool Breeze »

Navigator wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:35 pm
I am not offended when others chose not to. It is your individual choice to chose what you want to believe (or not) and have faith in (or not). In fact, Freedom of Religion is one of the core principles upon which America was founded.

Matters of faith are just that. A matter of faith. Not of "scientific proof". Science is constantly finding "new" answers and rejecting old theorems. God is never going to "prove" himself to man, because one of the main things we are tested on in this life is whether or not we will chose to exercise faith in God or not.
I agree with Navi here and that's why I like him. Notice, he is not offended when others choose to do something else, or say something - I applaud that.

Now I will show (for others) why the former post by my friend JX is lacking.

Guest

Re: Faith and Choice

Post by Guest »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:38 am
If we can do genetic tests that disprove claims of various aspects of Mormonism, beyond all the other dubious claims, should we not do that?
Navigator wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:35 pm
Matters of faith are just that. A matter of faith. Not of "scientific proof".
Cool Breeze wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:40 pm
I agree with Navi here and that's why I like him. Notice, he is not offended when others choose to do something else, or say something - I applaud that.

Good grief.

Cool Breeze
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

Here are the objections that John has put forth. I will explain why they are inherently meaningless and lack a complete understanding, of what's going on, what religion is, and what it claims to be (and doesn't).
John wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:51 pm
If you believe in a Virgin Birth, which is impossible from genetic
science, then what right have you to question genetic tests on
Mormons?

If you believe that someone can walk on water, or if you believe that
someone can rise after being dead for three days, which should be
impossible, then what right have you to question anyone else's
religion?

If you believe in a religion that has, throughout history, committed
various forms of genocide and ethnic cleansing, then what right have
you to question the lives of people of other religions?
I shouldn't have to bother with this level of willful ignorance, but since he asked I will. The concept of God is that He is beyond existence. Forensic science does not apply to Him in a way that it constricts Him, His plan, or His providence. As such (and don't get mad at me for the literal definition of God), a Virgin Birth cannot possibly contradict "genetic science" anymore than science can explain the coming into being (origin) of real creatures, especially sentient ones (it can't). The issue at hand was that if the claim is that the native americans are from the Middle East originally, of course they should have middle eastern DNA, or we should doubt their position (they aren't God, no claims were made regarding something supernatural, etc). This is basic logic that someone who is smart should never ignore and it is embarrassing.

Regarding walking on water over having power or created things, this is also the definition of God - so go complain about that one again to someone else if you don't like it. Again, God created the universe, then you ask about someone's "rights"? More estrogen coming out here, total nonsense.

The final paragraph shows to the utmost Mr. Xenakis's lack of understanding and critical thinking about religion, whether it may be false religion or true religion, and consistency. I have said this before and will say it again, and sadly most modern people fall into this category of (non)thinking. No, all religions aren't the same. They teach different things. This is why they are called different things. Some are violent as backed and supported by their violent leaders and teachings. Others are pacifist. Some are in between. Anyone can claim that he is entity X, Y or Z in life but all that matters actually is if he is in accordance with the teachings of lifestyle/religion/belief system. Why would you call someone something if he doesn't care to practice or ignores the teachings of religion X, if that's what he says he is? A real, honest person would know that's a bunch of hooey - you have to practice what is taught or you're just a charlatan like the rest. But I'm showing why and how you call BS for what it is, and that's the point of critical thinking. John doesn't take godly things seriously, so as a materialist he doesn't even try to discern obviously different aspects. It's childlike thinking of "all the religions are the same" which is foolishness on its face and easily proven to be false. Perhaps "all humans are the same" - at best, on a population level - but that is irrelevant to the teachings of any given religion, which promotes particular things as is its modus operandi, propensity for peace, enlightenment, or other characteristics such as violence.

There is one judge, and that judge will judge all men when they die. As for me, I'm just pointing out honest, true and obvious things about the world: observing, using logic, and discernment. I find that these things are uncommon, and here we have yet another example, even from an otherwise intelligent person.

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Tom Mazanec
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Tom Mazanec »

The US Constitution is a masterpiece. For the 1700s it is a marvel.
But it is not Divine. No document which gives African Americans three fifths of a human soul can be Divine.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

Cool Breeze
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Cool Breeze »

Tom Mazanec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:13 pm
The US Constitution is a masterpiece. For the 1700s it is a marvel.
But it is not Divine. No document which gives African Americans three fifths of a human soul can be Divine.
I'm not calling it divine, it clearly isn't, but it doesn't ever mention anything about a soul.

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Tom Mazanec
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Re: Religion / Theology

Post by Tom Mazanec »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:58 pm
Tom Mazanec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:13 pm
The US Constitution is a masterpiece. For the 1700s it is a marvel.
But it is not Divine. No document which gives African Americans three fifths of a human soul can be Divine.
I'm not calling it divine, it clearly isn't, but it doesn't ever mention anything about a soul.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/three- ... compromise
To put it more bluntly, any document supporting slavery for African Americans (brought here against their will) ain't divine.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

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