Abortion

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Re: Abortion

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Guest wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:40 am
I'm an Infantry veteran and a Freemason and to me the message of this story is that while we are gods among men as a highly trained special forces element, when we leave the military we are nothing but undesirables no matter what we have sacrificed!! In the end we veterans die poor on the streets going insane from the horror's we have endured!!
Welcome to the club...

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Re: Abortion

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Cool Breeze wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:07 pm
Bob Butler wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:04 pm
I agree that was too far. I also think if you expect the government to stop such efforts, defunding the DoJ and FBI wouldn't be bright.
Classic example of how bought and sold this bish is. One of his own actively calls for the murder of peaceful people, and he says "it's too far".

They downplay their own murderers then complain about others without any evidence that the others are even doing anything wrong. Amazing.
Mind blowing how hypocritical and distrubing the line of thinking is coming out of Leftists.

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Re: Abortion

Post by Cool Breeze »

Guest wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2023 2:03 pm
Cool Breeze wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:07 pm
Bob Butler wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:04 pm
I agree that was too far. I also think if you expect the government to stop such efforts, defunding the DoJ and FBI wouldn't be bright.
Classic example of how bought and sold this bish is. One of his own actively calls for the murder of peaceful people, and he says "it's too far".

They downplay their own murderers then complain about others without any evidence that the others are even doing anything wrong. Amazing.
Mind blowing how hypocritical and distrubing the line of thinking is coming out of Leftists.
Sick isn't even the right word. It's like the people that want to give the government actors the benefit of the doubt by calling them incompetent. After incompetent policy 167, it's pretty obvious they are in fact evil, or equivalent to those telling them what to do (the real case), prostitutes that can later take the blame as stooges, for the higher IQ plans that are laid out. It's amazing that people don't recognize this obvious fact. But then again, most people who think their opinion and vote matters also choose to be paid off as opposed to care about anything regarding virtue or principle.

guest

Re: Abortion

Post by guest »

Pope Francis Softens Vatican’s Ban on Blessing Gay Couples

https://www.wsj.com/world/pope-francis- ... s-c76464b0

:lol: :lol:

Navigator
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Re: Abortion

Post by Navigator »

To get back at the core topic, abortion, I am reposting what I wrote about it before:
Navigator wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:11 am

As we get further and further from Christ's teachings as a society, things get worse and worse.

I also view Abortion (save in the cases of rape and incest) as murder.

The leftists say "a woman gets to chose what to do with her body". In a way I agree. But the choice is made when you decide to have sex. Sex, the power of procreation, is something that God wants us to be very careful about. It is meant for the creation of families, and, by commandment, is meant to be only between a man and wife.

Sex is not just some recreational activity. Immorality leads to all kinds of pain, hardship and difficulties. The worst of which is probably the damage it does to the family, the bedrock of any society/civilization itself.

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Re: Abortion

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Navigator wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:49 pm
To get back at the core topic, abortion, I am reposting what I wrote about it before:
This still leaves it as a European white supremicist urge to impose one's own culture on those who do not share it. It is much like the bigot's desire to protect traditional prejudices or the rich folk's desire to keep undue influence on government. Freedom and independence imply not imposing one's way on others. Yes, the Evangelicals, Catholics and Jews share a European religious doctrine, but America is not supposed to impose religious doctrines on those who do not share it. Does the government punish women for not covering their hair, or anyone for eating meat on Friday? I think not. I do not care how profoundly you believe in your own doctrine or prejudice, do not try to impose it on others.

Again, can you identify a scientifically measurable property that a fetus has which animals we raise for meat does not? Your definition of sentient is a religious doctrine. You cannot declare an official religion then enforce it's doctrine.

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Re: Abortion

Post by John »

What's your opinion of capital punishment?

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Re: Abortion

Post by Navigator »

Bob Butler wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2023 5:58 pm

This still leaves it as a European white supremicist urge to impose one's own culture on those who do not share it. It is much like the bigot's desire to protect traditional prejudices or the rich folk's desire to keep undue influence on government. Freedom and independence imply not imposing one's way on others. Yes, the Evangelicals, Catholics and Jews share a European religious doctrine, but America is not supposed to impose religious doctrines on those who do not share it. Does the government punish women for not covering their hair, or anyone for eating meat on Friday? I think not. I do not care how profoundly you believe in your own doctrine or prejudice, do not try to impose it on others.

Again, can you identify a scientifically measurable property that a fetus has which animals we raise for meat does not? Your definition of sentient is a religious doctrine. You cannot declare an official religion then enforce it's doctrine.
Well, Bob, lets go thru your points.

1 - I take it that you view Christianity as European White Supremicist. Half of the current population of Africa is Christian, and the rate is rapidly increasing. I take it that you also view all of them as European White Supremicists.

I, as a Christian, find Abortion abominable. But then, so do Muslims. So finding Abortion a dire sin is not restricted to Christianity. I just pointed out that, for ME, as a result of my beliefs, I find it abominable. Others have other core beliefs that lead them to the same view

2 - Rich folk desire to have undue influence on government. I think ALL folk desire to have undue influence in government. Right now it is not the rich deciding to forgive student loan debt or let masses of undesireable immigrants into the country. Some other groups evidently have undue influence in government.

3 - Freedom and independence imply not imposing one's way on others. True. Yet the liberal left is pulling out all the stops to do just that. AND trying to quash free speech in the process. BTW, killing an unborn infant is certainly imposing one's will (the mother's) on the unborn infant.

4 - American is not supposed to impose religious doctrines on those that don't share it. True. USA does not have a state church, nor has it engaged in forced proselytization, as early Europe did (Crusades into Eastern Europe for Example). But, our laws are based on Judeo-Christian moral codes, such as the ones against murder and theft. Such "codes" are the foundation of civilization, and anarchy is the result of no such codes being in place.

5 - there is a big difference between covering one's hair (law in Iran and similar places, but nowhere else) and killing an unborn child. This is like saying there is no law against stepping on a roach (a living creature), so there should be no law against killing another human being.

6 - Imposition of my belief on others. I am not attempting to "impose my beliefs". I am trying to protect the lives of others. If this is "imposing my beliefs" then any action that I might take to protect others is also one. Yet this is the foundation of civilization, mutual protection.

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Re: Abortion

Post by Bob Butler »

Navigator wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:40 pm
Well, Bob, lets go thru your points...
In MSNBC’s The Last Word tonight, Lawrence O’Donnell made a point that the Republicans do not know how to nominate a competent speaker that knows how to do the job. For the longest time, the Democrats held Congress and were the speakers. In recent times the Republicans have had the occasional chance, and their people were universally disasters. They tended to resign or retire. True, this is the first time they have had to vote out their own guy, but they simply do not know how to do the job.

From my point of view, a lot of it is just having a different job. The Democrats try to help the people. The Republicans try to force their culture on others. Thus they are an alliance of bigots, religious fanatics and the rich. They made it illegal to follow one’s own morality, and they censor attempts to spread conflicting cultures. The whole point is to impose their own way of thought on others. Certain aspects of white culture are imposed by force of government on those belonging to other cultures.

I am not sure if the bigots, religious fanatics or rich are the worst.

Again, define a property that can be scientifically, repeatedly detected in a fetus, but not in your typical animal grown for meat. Your objection is to a religious doctrine. A religious doctrine. You have no right to impose it on those that do not share it.

Not that you are apt to succeed. Note in your post you quote religions, not cultures. The attempts by conservatives to dictate religious beliefs in conflict with women has resulted in the women winning the vote in the US every single time since Roe was overturned. Come 2024, if conservatives continue to attempt to impose their culture on the women of America, the Democrats are apt to win Congress. There is no other way to restore control of their own bodies. And then the conservative collapse will be on. A right to reproductive health care. Voting rights. An end to gerrymandering. Common sense gun control. Fighting censorship by underling the First Amendment. Etc... You let in a decisive progressive Congress, and they won’t stop at one issue.

I really just ought to shut my mouth and let you cut your own throats. Ah, well. You can’t say you weren’t warned.
Last edited by Bob Butler on Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Capital punishment

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2023 6:48 pm
What's your opinion of capital punishment?
I have a very poor opinion of war and capital punishment. Some one of these crises, either or both might end up being a crisis issue. Many cultures will abolish them. Until that time, it does little good for me to try to force them to become a crisis issue. There seems to be enough going on this time around.

Edit: Arguably, one can view the Putin war in Ukraine as a crisis issue. War could become recognized as not cost effective for major powers, a big no no. Can one justify organized government theft or cultural imposition? Claiming it requires more optimism than I feel just now.

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