Societal collapse

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Trevor
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Societal collapse

Post by Trevor »

I've just started reading the book and I'm a little disappointed that the Bronze Age Collapse hasn't been mentioned. This is probably the worst societal collapse in our history, even worse than the Western Roman Empire. Bad as that one was, it was a single civilization. Over the course of a century, all these civilizations went from thriving to dead, which only Egypt managed to survive (and even they were drastically weakened)

All of them were intertwined, dependent on each other through trade, meaning that anything that happened to one of them affected the others, dragging everyone down. It took centuries for the region to recover.

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Bob Butler
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Re: Societal collapse

Post by Bob Butler »

Yes. I've heard rumors that that one was a climate shift collapse. There is one image on an old Egyptian temple that shows a green terrain and assorted animals in the same image as the pyramids. It is suggested that this was not a fantasy, but actually common in the period. The desert was once green. The fertile crescent was once far more fertile. Some suggested that slash and burn agriculture which put carbon back in the atmosphere triggered the change. With less food came forced migrations and much land which once supported civilization became much dryer could no longer support it. This naturally resulted in more warfare and disrupted trade. At any rate, after the shift civilization was less in the south and east Mediterranean, but more to the north with first Greece then Rome becoming dominant.

It is suggested that global warming could cause a similar shift in not too many decades. Many live near the sea, and a lot of farmland and population is in low enough terrain that rising sea levels will force migrations. Norh America is rich in land and resources. relatively low in population. The Pentagon is worried that a forced migration from the south could make defending the southern border a significant problem.

I know many reds would like to put off action on global warming. It might be that fusion will become real in the near future, and a climate change problem might not arise. Still, that is one possible coming storm.

Cool Breeze
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Re: Societal collapse

Post by Cool Breeze »

Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:05 am
Yes. I've heard rumors that that one was a climate shift collapse. There is one image on an old Egyptian temple that shows a green terrain and assorted animals in the same image as the pyramids. It is suggested that this was not a fantasy, but actually common in the period. The desert was once green. The fertile crescent was once far more fertile. Some suggested that slash and burn agriculture which put carbon back in the atmosphere triggered the change. With less food came forced migrations and much land which once supported civilization became much dryer could no longer support it. This naturally resulted in more warfare and disrupted trade. At any rate, after the shift civilization was less in the south and east Mediterranean, but more to the north with first Greece then Rome becoming dominant.

It is suggested that global warming could cause a similar shift in not too many decades. Many live near the sea, and a lot of farmland and population is in low enough terrain that rising sea levels will force migrations. Norh America is rich in land and resources. relatively low in population. The Pentagon is worried that a forced migration from the south could make defending the southern border a significant problem.

I know many reds would like to put off action on global warming. It might be that fusion will become real in the near future, and a climate change problem might not arise. Still, that is one possible coming storm.
The thing is Bob, everything in the name of Global Warming/now Climate Change is propaganda. And no human action will do anything. Even if it did, no functionally possible result would ever involve enough people or nations to care or meaningfully change things even according to the paradigm.

The proof that it is propaganda is that the climate changes and the minimal human activity never did anything to move it either. It's just what happens. You admit this in your description of the past, and anyone who knows history knows that there was no significant human activity ever occurring in the world re: Co2 emissions, yet far more drastic climate changes happened.

FullMoon
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Re: Societal collapse

Post by FullMoon »

Please buy the book and read it. Buying the book helps keep this platform running and helps John do his work. He's woefully underpaid regardless.

Navigator
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Re: Societal collapse

Post by Navigator »

Trevor wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:05 pm
I've just started reading the book and I'm a little disappointed that the Bronze Age Collapse hasn't been mentioned. This is probably the worst societal collapse in our history, even worse than the Western Roman Empire. Bad as that one was, it was a single civilization. Over the course of a century, all these civilizations went from thriving to dead, which only Egypt managed to survive (and even they were drastically weakened)

All of them were intertwined, dependent on each other through trade, meaning that anything that happened to one of them affected the others, dragging everyone down. It took centuries for the region to recover.
I didn't get into this because so few people know about it let alone understand what happened. People kind of understand the fall of Rome thing.

And yes, I agree that Egypt was once far more fertile than it is today.

And also I think that the whole theory of Human Caused Global Warming is bunk. Please see my post about this at my website:
https://comingstorms.com/global-warming/

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Bob Butler
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Re: Societal collapse

Post by Bob Butler »

I don’t expect to single handedly overcome the red tendency to ignore problems, but we are moving from the unravelling thinking to crisis mode. Do not be shocked if government becomes more focused on problem solving, and pays much more attention to the science.

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Bob Butler
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Re: Societal collapse

Post by Bob Butler »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:22 pm
The thing is Bob, everything in the name of Global Warming/now Climate Change is propaganda. And no human action will do anything. Even if it did, no functionally possible result would ever involve enough people or nations to care or meaningfully change things even according to the paradigm.

The proof that it is propaganda is that the climate changes and the minimal human activity never did anything to move it either. It's just what happens. You admit this in your description of the past, and anyone who knows history knows that there was no significant human activity ever occurring in the world re: Co2 emissions, yet far more drastic climate changes happened.
Well, if the Bronze Age collapse above was indeed caused by the human practice of slash and burn agriculture, that contradicts the above claim.

But this is a common historical factor in diverse examples of conservative thinking. Look at the last three American crises. Kings are not displaced by Democracies. Slaves are the cornerstone of all civilizations. Government does not have the power to regulate the economy. Things which always have been supposedly shall always be. It is sort of a good practice, understandable. It is one way of learning from history. When you run into an Age boundary and the pattern of civilization is changing, when you run into a crisis in such an age transition, bets are off. In solving the crisis problems, new things are tried and become very American, even if they are new to history.

Ayway, global warming is well down the list of crisis problems at the moment. While I don't expect a drastic priority given now with the economy in ruins, I expect the science denialism will be impossible to sustain by the time the awakening comes about. We will see what happens then. The science by then will be solid enough to base a decision on. I figure the next generation of prophets to be the green generation. To a great degree, the problem might well be ignored in the near future. I sort of expect their world will be in the process of destruction, and the new prophets will be angry at their elders. But, that will be beyond my time.

In the meanwhile, the political division in the country is another likely cause for the old Chinese curse, of living in interesting times.

Cool Breeze
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Re: Societal collapse

Post by Cool Breeze »

Global warming was the first unseen eschatology of the left's religion. Problem is, no one cared because it was so obviously false and you could actually understand this according to your world experience. Here's the reason why this plandemic is so effective: people have no idea what to think about an invisible virus and propaganda is much easier for them to focus on fear. Conflation of bad health and old age with dying is classic for the normie or non critical thinker. There are thousands of people who die from all sorts of things people never pay mind to at all, and that are much more common than the invisible virus, but those are never in your face or on the airwaves, or have public policy determined to be supposedly about them specifically.

There might be a more dangerous virus that arises eventually, but this surely wasn't a lethal or dangerous one in any medical capacity or by any definition. Was it novel? Sure. A deadly virus doesn't spare 99.5% of people. A weak virus does that, and when you have bogus PCR false positives, the propaganda can get worse and cross over to claim cov2 as cause of death.

Cool Breeze
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Re: Societal collapse

Post by Cool Breeze »

Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:11 pm
Well, if the Bronze Age collapse above was indeed caused by the human practice of slash and burn agriculture, that contradicts the above claim.
You clearly don't understand scale or the history of the world's climate. Slash and burn for a million people can't possibly change anything even close to what is claimed by the modern climate change liars, and we have had decades of cooling even post industrial revolution (40s-80s). I'll just leave it at this since it is the dumbest idea ever: If global warming were true, it should never cool - and of course it has during all the years they have claimed XYZ. That's why they had to change the name.

The most obvious fraud of all time.

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Bob Butler
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Re: Societal collapse

Post by Bob Butler »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:17 pm
You clearly don't understand scale or the history of the world's climate. Slash and burn for a million people can't possibly change anything even close to what is claimed by the modern climate change liars, and we have had decades of cooling even post industrial revolution (40s-80s). I'll just leave it at this since it is the dumbest idea ever: If global warming were true, it should never cool - and of course it has during all the years they have claimed XYZ. That's why they had to change the name.

The most obvious fraud of all time.
Oh, I've debated the climate problem on other forums where there is not as blatant an ideological bias. We could talk about the climate in the dinosaur's time, before so much carbon was tied up in oil, coal and gas. We could talk about the Milankovitch cycles, and how the shifting orbital effects change the climate. We could even talk about global dimming, about how particulate pollution and greenhouse gas pollution are tugging in different directions. There is a worry that it is far easier to eliminate the cooling particles than the warming greenhouse gasses, and when the Asian countries notice the expense of the health risk, warming could take off. Hopefully, we will be implementing fusion at the same time. We can talk about solar cycles, and how much heat from the sun varies over time. We could talk about methane thawing in the arctic, and the effects of more blue water in the arctic. If we wanted, we could open a new thread and replay the various factors that effect climate.

But this site is very red. It has attracted folks who have political values against solving problems, more so than scientific values about learning of the world from examining it. I don't really expect to change that. Climate is a slow problem. It is possible to stick future generations with solving the problem. COVID is a faster problem. You can see the danger in ignoring the science and embracing political stagnation.

I'll leave the so called debate to the next generation of prophets. I suspect they will be able to shake the complacency of their elders even if I can't. They might even make the 1960s look mild in comparison.

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