Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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Bob Butler
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MAGA

Post by Bob Butler »

I'll be patient. Has anyone in the Clinton family or administration been put in jail or convicted of a felony? Attempts to weaponize the criminal justice system are not new. The extent of the criminality is. Nixon. Trump. Even Reagan with Iran - contra. We'll both build up antagonism when the other side does it, but come on...

To me MAGA has always been about the crisis issues I mentioned before. I disagree with all of them, and am hardly alone. Committing the other way? You can see why sticking to the old ideas can end badly? Do you see the greatest issues facing the culture are going to be fixed? Do you want in a democracy to fight the will of the people?

As for the F16s, it seems one can't by force change another culture. The War on Terror was at best an attempt to spread our supposedly superior culture by force of arms. We learned better. The locals had seen far more colonial imperialism out of the west than democracy, and were not fooled. As in other crises, we learned not to put boots on the ground. In S&H, this is a traditional crisis lesson. Immediately after a big war, the mood of the country is not to fight another. We were not going by force change other cultures in our image. At best, those who agreed most with our culture immigrated, leaving their native lands more deeply mired in religious and authoritarian mires. Biden learned that lesson, ended a forever war that was going nowhere. Some didn't.

In many ways the War on Terror was an attempt to justify a continued fight in Vietnam. In following a policy of containment, I can see where LBJ felt he had to fight. But in fighting against the will of the Vietnamese people, he should have done so with far more care. The legacy of the French Catholic dominant group in the south was contaminated. It was colonial imperialism continued. LBJ wan't going to win. In a similar way, changing by force Middle Eastern cultures was not going to happen either. The days of big powers throwing their weight around is past. Biden saw it.

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Women's role in changing society

Post by Bob Butler »

In a recent post on the role of women in society over on John’s thread, Navigator made a number of interesting points. I could make a few more.

Let’s start with the concept of ages. The Agricultural Age dealt with hereitarty government, muscle powered weapons, animal powered industry and the written word. The Industrial Age featured democracy, chemical weapons, steam industry and the printed word. The Information Age with (fill in the blank), nukes, renewable energy and computer networks. These are fine as far as they go. They do not speak much to Navigator’s observations, that as technology changes, women’s relationships change with it.

Do we want to un invent things? Can we? What were the pertinent inventions and changes? What would happen if we uninvented the things that brought the change?

One of the minor things was that there were stars back in the Victorian period. For a time I was into Jenny Lind, Lillie Langtry, Annie Oakley and Sarah Bernhardt. Exceptional ladies. The stars of their times. Much admired. Absurdly skilled. As renowned as the stars of today, if rarer. The observation is that technology gained the ability to record performances. Starting in the early 20th century, it became possible to see and hear what made various people great. These four ladies lost out, came a little too soon. If there is a difference, it is in technology.

About then microphones, public address system and recording became available. One might look at the role of Bing Crosby. Before Bing, in order to project to a large audience, one had to sing in an operatic style which could fill a large venue. He was among the first who rejected that, who sang to convey emotion and be more normal. It was a whole different thing. As opera was fashionable for a time, he created something new. And in the 20th century, jazz, big bands, folk and rock rapidly evolved. These should not be neglected in thinking on technology and music.

And also home appliances. My grandmother sometimes boasted that she had grown up with horses and buggy, and lived to see man on the moon. In her youth, it took a person to do the housekeeping and childrearing. This changed big time with the invention of things like dishwashers, modern plumbing, washing machines, vacuums and the rest. Then too World War II called the men to do a lot of the fighting, and invited women into factories and offices. These were going to happen, and sure made a mess of the traditional relationship between the sexes.

Then there was birth control. How do you not invent something? As the current Republicans are trying to do, do you try to make feminine health care illegal?

In general, conservatives attempt to freeze old values in place. Progressives will try to take advantage of the new technologies. I suppose it is understandable to bemoan the loss of the old patterns. On the other hand, one can celebrate the wonderful new inventions and try to incorporate them into society. One can no more get rid of microphones, vacuums, electric guitars and birth control pills than nukes, computers, renewable anergy and democracy. Ages, turnings and civilizations move on.

If we are to add music, stars and women to the age theory’s government, weapons, industrial methods and information handling, there will have to be considerable discussion.

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Sexual Drive and Outlets

Post by Bob Butler »

Again, Navigator in John’s thread made interesting observations in his “Sexual Drive and Outlets” post. A few things could be added.

Generational Dynamics puts emphasis on the Marco Polo Bridge instinct. You hate those who are different. You spread your gene pool. Part of oppressing minorities is raping the oppressed. No, it is not something to be encouraged. It is something that one does not talk about, even in Navigator’s post. But mixing sex and violence is key to understanding both.

Another factor is repopulating the species at a fairly constant level. It used to be that in order to secure a good retirement, you’d have to have a large family. Two people married, and they might easily have a dozen pregnancies, resulting in more children dying well before the parents retired. Nowadays, I am well retired with no children. Between better health care, birth control, and different retirement mechanisms, the dynamics of how many kids one needs to have is very different. If you talk about keeping the values and behavior patterns of the good old days, you have to start with how the days have changed.

And yet, yes, we are and always have been sex obsessed. To survive as a species, on has to spread the gene pool and use violence to suppress the gene pool of those who are different. No, not all the results of this are ideal. Copying the ‘traditional’ behavior of wars, rape and prejudice is problematic. Health care has improved. Wars are less cost effective. Resources are nearing limits. Birth control exists. Women know there is more to life than endless pregnancy.

I don’t know where Navigator is going, but sex drive is part of a mess of issues, many of which are changing big time.

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CNN shifting red???

Post by Bob Butler »

Tonight, MSNBC pointed out that CNN in its town hall featuring Trump filled the audience with Trump supporters. This seemed to be supported by several segments of the show. Trump would make a Trumpy statement and get a Trumpy response. This was quite a contrast from the typical MSNBC proclamation that if Trump gets elected again that would be the end of the American experiment.

MSNBC suggested following the money trail. One of CNN’s new major stockholders is a Republican donor. He would be setting up CNN as a red media outlet.

Now, CNN has traditionally been part of the main stream media. Organizations like the New York Times, the old big three TV networks and others leaned big city Democratic blue. Fox, the Wall Street journal and others leaned rural Republican red. One has to be aware of one’s sources, assume a bias and be aware of what the other side is saying and not saying.

But we seem to be seeing a shift here. Fox has been discredited by the Dominion discovery stuff. Maximize profits by telling the audience what they want to hear. Other red outlets are trying to take over. Now CNN is starting to shift the other way.

Too soon to say for sure if this will stick, but one might want to be aware of it.

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Re: CNN shifting red???

Post by thomasglee »

Bob Butler wrote:
Thu May 11, 2023 9:49 pm
Tonight, MSNBC pointed out that CNN in its town hall featuring Trump filled the audience with Trump supporters. This seemed to be supported by several segments of the show. Trump would make a Trumpy statement and get a Trumpy response. This was quite a contrast from the typical MSNBC proclamation that if Trump gets elected again that would be the end of the American experiment.

MSNBC suggested following the money trail. One of CNN’s new major stockholders is a Republican donor. He would be setting up CNN as a red media outlet.

Now, CNN has traditionally been part of the main stream media. Organizations like the New York Times, the old big three TV networks and others leaned big city Democratic blue. Fox, the Wall Street journal and others leaned rural Republican red. One has to be aware of one’s sources, assume a bias and be aware of what the other side is saying and not saying.

But we seem to be seeing a shift here. Fox has been discredited by the Dominion discovery stuff. Maximize profits by telling the audience what they want to hear. Other red outlets are trying to take over. Now CNN is starting to shift the other way.

Too soon to say for sure if this will stick, but one might want to be aware of it.
You're a fool. Trump made no bones about it. He only agreed to do the hour because CNN OFFERED to have the audience be all Trump supporters. Trump would have been a fool to turn down an hour based off that kind of offer from the network.
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

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Bob Butler
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Re: CNN shifting red???

Post by Bob Butler »

thomasglee wrote:
Fri May 12, 2023 8:23 am
You're a fool. Trump made no bones about it. He only agreed to do the hour because CNN OFFERED to have the audience be all Trump supporters. Trump would have been a fool to turn down an hour based off that kind of offer from the network.
Yep. CNN offered a red friendly environment. We'll see if the shift continues.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

** 12-May-2023 World View: CNN's Trump Town Hall
thomasglee wrote:
Fri May 12, 2023 8:23 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Thu May 11, 2023 9:49 pm

> Tonight, MSNBC pointed out that CNN
> in its town hall featuring Trump
> filled the audience with Trump
> supporters. This seemed to be
> supported by several segments of the
> show. Trump would make a Trumpy
> statement and get a Trumpy response.
> This was quite a contrast from the
> typical MSNBC proclamation that if
> Trump gets elected again that would
> be the end of the American
> experiment.

> MSNBC suggested following the money
> trail. One of CNN’s new major
> stockholders is a Republican donor.
> He would be setting up CNN as a red
> media outlet.

> Now, CNN has traditionally been part
> of the main stream media.
> Organizations like the New York
> Times, the old big three TV networks
> and others leaned big city
> Democratic blue. Fox, the Wall
> Street journal and others leaned
> rural Republican red. One has to be
> aware of one’s sources, assume a
> bias and be aware of what the other
> side is saying and not saying.

> But we seem to be seeing a shift
> here. Fox has been discredited by
> the Dominion discovery stuff.
> Maximize profits by telling the
> audience what they want to hear.
> Other red outlets are trying to take
> over. Now CNN is starting to shift
> the other way.

> Too soon to say for sure if this
> will stick, but one might want to be
> aware of it.
> You're a fool. Trump made no bones
> about it. He only agreed to do the
> hour because CNN OFFERED to have the
> audience be all Trump supporters.
> Trump would have been a fool to turn
> down an hour based off that kind of
> offer from the network.

I agree with Butler's point that CNN
seems to be edging back to the center,
away from its loony left position.

Ever since they fired that idiot Brian
Stelter last year, and then recently Don
Lemon, also a complete idiot, I've been
watching CNN more often. Most of the
time, CNN's reporting has been edging
closer to the "fair and balanced"
objective that Fox News has set. That
is, Fox is right of center and CNN is
left of center, but they're not as far
apart as they used to be.

I'm pleased that CNN has been moving
towards the center. I started watching
CNN from the day it was launched in
1980. What I've always particulary liked
about CNN is its international coverage,
through its sister network CNN
International. It was only in the
mid-2000s decade that CNN began moving
to the loony left.

What's really hilarious about the
current situation is the reaction of the
left to the town hall. They are
ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS at CNN for giving
Trump that platform. It is nothing
short of total hysteria. There are
reports of a civil war among CNN
employees, and pundits on MSNBC and
other far left media have been scathing
in their hatred and criticism.

There were several things that
infuriated the leftist loons:
  • Trump received frequent applause
    from the audience. The audience
    consisted of Republicans and
    indepedents, since the town hall was
    targeted New Hampshire primary
    voters.
  • Trump was at the top of his game and
    gave forceful responses to all
    questions. He did not give the kind of
    "chaotic" responses that he gave in the
    past, the kind that perhaps the CNN
    producers where hoping for.
  • It was clear that Trump would wipe
    the floor in a debate with Joe
    Biden.
The last few years have seen an
increasingly harsh, Stalinist,
censhorship regime imposed the
Democrats, allied with the mainstream
media and social media. Ed Musk's
acquisition of Twitter has already
delivered a significant blow to the
Democrats's Stalinist regime, and if CNN
continues moving toward the center and
become a real news network again, that
would deliver another major blow.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by spottybrowncow »

Trump basks in any spotlight, you may say like a snake basking in the sun, but that's the way it is. He is at his best when the most attention is focused on him. At this time, he has no remote competitors, right or left, in this regard.

Like most other conservatives, I have a long list of suggestions for Trump to improve his image, but I don't think he's listening to any of us.

Where does that leave us normal people (not leftists)? I may favor DeSantis in the primary if he runs, but if Trump gets the nomination, I'm all in, 150%, wearing MAGA hats to work, etc. I would love to watch him continuing to tear the status quo apart, whip the delusional leftists into a frenzy, drive the globalists insane, whatever.

We have nothing to lose if he wins, we are on a trajectory for disaster presently, it's time to break the pool balls as hard as possible.
Let the games begin.
Last edited by spottybrowncow on Sat May 13, 2023 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Town Hall Continued?

Post by Bob Butler »

Apparently, CNN had a post town hall event that featured a dozen people who were in the audience. MSNBC showed snippets of that event. One member was a definite pro Trump ally who I quite believe would applaud and approve Trump. The others weren’t. They were the ones who remained silent, disgusted and disapproving.

MSNBC noted that approval was noisy, and got conveyed in real time during the town hall. Disgust and disbelief was silent. That did not at all get conveyed in the CNN coverage of the original event. This was portrayed as that approval was louder than disgust, not as a bias in CNN coverage.

So apparently the Town Hall audience was not as pro Trump as it seemed. A good number of people rejected the big lie, insurrection, attempts to alter the election result, the positions of the Jan 6 committee and Liz Cheney, etc…. If you give credence to the after event, the majority were anti Trump.

I suspect we will have to watch to see how many big media outlets shift.

Another factor noted was Trumps obsession with the past, with the 2020 election in particular. There was a sizable chunk of the Republicans attending the town hall that wanted a candidate more focused on current issues.

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Common MAGA?

Post by Bob Butler »

Spartacus wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 1:20 pm
The reason why Trump is in with a real chance of winning the next GE is because no one else is speaking for the ignored common folk.

To them he does not appear beyond the pale, or uncultured, he just says 'I'm your man, I'll stand up for you when no one else will'
Trump and MAGA are an unusual alliance of one issue people. He supports prejudice and picks up the bigots. He supports abortion, and picks up certain religious groups. He supports the rich. In the cases of all three, these are not unquestionably the common people. If Black Lives Matter was at one time a crisis issue, he stood against it. The will of the majority is for abortion. The rich are not common. You have to be with one of these three to perceive MAGA as common.

Biden is plodding along with the kitchen table issues along with opposing the MAGA uncommon issues. We’ll see how it resolves. My prediction is that the conservative values invariably collapse at the end of a crisis. This seems to be already happening.

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