Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

[Clarkmod]

Thanks Spotty and well put!

[Clarkmod]

Everything changes. But only STEM things change in one direction consistently...and even for that, Europe had some regression after the Fall of Rome. Slavery was abolished in the South 1865 (effectively) and Brazil in 1888. Yet it arose in Germany in the 20th century in a form far more malignant than the Confederacy's, and only Hitler's blunder in basically attacking the rest of the world except a couple friends ended it...and it was a close thing for awhile.

I am not defending slavery. I am pointing out that the argument that the law and the majority of the voters support at least some level of abortion could have been used by a Southron in 1859 to do so, just by changing a word.

First, what do you mean by a STEM thing? I may have it. I think. I have STEM education as way to use AI to teach Science, Technology, Engineering and Math. That doesn’t relate to the problem we are dealing with.

And Catholic Christianity is centered on one medieval perception of things. It provides a complete perspective for how things were and are is centered on one old perspective. You get suck in one way of looking at things. Not everybody is stuck. We had the protestant reformation and a tendency toward more secular values which effected many people. We have crossed two Age boundaries since then. We have changed in many ways, but some cling to another time, ignore, disregard or simply do not notice the changes in values.

I'm giving up on arguing with you because it appears to be fruitless. I will challenge you on this statement you made which I'm going to assume was out of ignorance. The Catholic Church does not have a "medieval perception." You may not like some if its values, but they are all internally consistent and based on a rigid framework of ethics which I understand is not your prime consideration.

As a side point, during the medieval ages the Church was _the_ center of scientific research and development. You may wish to reconsider your terms and attitudes.

[Clarkmod]

The "progress" that you see is something akin to an evil spell. Mass formation psychosis,etc whatnot the phenomenon is real. But when you are enveloped in it, you cannot see outside of the range of thought. It's a cult and you are an adherent. Intellectual discourse becomes impossible with cult members therefore. That is why people here get frustrated with you.

Let me go down again some of the recently encountered problems, signs that we are not in the best of all possible worlds, and what the progressives have attempted to do with them.

They see insurrection, upsetting the peaceful transfer of power, lying about whether the election was corrupt, as a problem. They would use rule of law to fix it. Change procedure to make it harder for another to make the attempt.

They see the attempts to reduce science’s attempts to save lives as a problem. They would like to protect the healers, to resist those who value economics over lives.

They see prejudice mixed with inappropriate use of force. Police killing minorities. Spree shooters going into minority safe places. They would see rule of law punish the transgression. They would ease the violence, killing and prejudice if they could, but violent prejudice has become a significant part of the culture. How to change that is a problem.

We have seen attempts to gerrymander voting maps and prevent minorities from voting. The democrats would establish voting rights, but this has been blocked by a coordinated effort by the GOP.

We have seen autocratic powers attempt to expand their influence by force. We have answered with containment, with proxy war, sanctions, preparedness, and other methods. This has not worked as well as hoped. Sometimes Marx was right. The oppression of noble hereditary governments and colonial imperial administrations gets so bad that the people being defended are rooting for the Marxist revolutionaries. But containment must be tried.

You are not supposed to use government for your own profit. Trump regularly directed the secret service and foreign governments into his own facilities. Some token efforts have been made to curb this use of government power to self profit, but frankly this has been a minor effort compared to other things.

That will do for the moment. It indicates society if flawed and the sort of thing that has been tried to fix these flaws.

Do the conservatives have an equivalent? Do they represent anything other than maximizing their own power? The above efforts leave a progressive with the impression that power is what conservatives are about. I would be interested in a similar list of issues and how greed for power and wealth is not the primary concern of conservatives. The NRA is not about getting income from the gun industry. There is a sincere concern for the Second Amendment. Police Unions are about best defending the public, not about how to implement government racism. List how conservatives value various issues in a positive way. Frankly, as a progressive, it looks like the conservative movement is on the wrong side of every issue.

List how I am wrong.

Progressive = regressive

[Clarkmod]

I would like to add some clarification / correction to my above post.

Use of the term "psychological projection" at least implies that the person doing the projecting does it unconsciously; thus, it is at least theoretically possible that they could change their behavior upon becoming aware of it. The left knows very well what they are doing, and they do it as a means of deflection. From the outside it may appear the same, but the difference is important, because it means correction is essentially impossible.

[Clarkmod]

And Catholic Christianity is centered on one medieval perception of things. It provides a complete perspective for how things were and are is centered on one old perspective. You get suck in one way of looking at things. Not everybody is stuck. We had the protestant reformation and a tendency toward more secular values which effected many people. We have crossed two Age boundaries since then. We have changed in many ways, but some cling to another time, ignore, disregard or simply do not notice the changes in values.

I'm giving up on arguing with you because it appears to be fruitless. I will challenge you on this statement you made which I'm going to assume was out of ignorance. The Catholic Church does not have a "medieval perception." You may not like some if its values, but they are all internally consistent and based on a rigid framework of ethics which I understand is not your prime consideration.

As a side point, during the medieval ages the Church was _the_ center of scientific research and development. You may wish to reconsider your terms and attitudes.

Of course I won’t change your values. It takes a complete failure of values in a traumatic way for values to change. Atlanta 1864 and Hiroshima 1945 are my common examples. You could not get rid of slavery or autocratic conquest without literally crushing the cultures practicing them.

The best you can do is show they cannot verbally defend their perspective. I listed a bunch of recent crisis issues and ways the Democrats tried to fix them, and asked for someone to respond with a Republican equivalent. Silence, except variations of “Evil Spell!” I interpret this as inability. One knows one cannot defend one’s values, but persist in the deviant behaviors (slavery, autocratic conquest, insurrection, ad hominem) anyway.

And medieval isn’t really an insult, but a time period in which the catholic system developed and peaked. Yes, the system is consistent and logical. There were times it was corrupt, but any system that has that much power for so long will lose their way at times. If you actually do manage to love your neighbor, you end up just fine. Just listen to Jesus more than either of the two popes and you are OK.

I’m just into various ways to look at history: turnings, civilizations, ages and evolutionary biology. Values from these perspectives change more. If you see each S&H crisis as solving the greatest problems of the culture and adding improved values to avoid the problems repeating, you are going to get progressive quickly.

[Clarkmod]

The catholic view of things is that you just have to imitate the known, fixed and perfect values of God, his messiah and his church. If you are gung ho into turning theory, society is viewed as flawed, and each crisis removes the worst flaws and creates new values to prevent the flaws from happening again. This might be the difference between a fixed and evolving view of values. I’m sure that catholic vs blue is not the only place where such a conflict exists. Some think values unchanging. Others see them as improving, evolving.

Moral Principles are unchanging. Our perception and implementation of those principles can improve and evolve. They can also deteriorate and devolve.

[Clarkmod]

Moral Principles are unchanging. Our perception and implementation of those principles can improve and evolve. They can also deteriorate and devolve.

True enough. I would also suggest that a good deal of the problem is that politicians are often not motivated by moral principles.

[Clarkmod]

Why I don't read BB's posts:
They're apparently meant to trigger the good, righteous and dignified people still in existence into joining his hatred of said values. It's the tactic of a troll. This is why we have a dedicated section for his babbling. It is a distraction from important and critical issues and has proven decidedly unfruitful except to further expose Leftists for what they really are; their chaos and destruction are threatening the last bastion of freedom in this world. Enemies internal and external

[Clarkmod]

BB, I am no longer a Republican precisely because of that. They seem to be pretty much wrong about every issue but one. But that one outweighs all the others.

[Clarkmod]

BB, I am no longer a Republican precisely because of that. They seem to be pretty much wrong about every issue but one. But that one outweighs all the others.

Respectable. While I am on the other side of the one issue, it is an impossible issue.