Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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John
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

** 11-Apr-2021 World View: Third Grade
Bob Butler wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:22 pm
> I remember little from the third grade. Prominent was that it was
> the year Rockland MA put up its second water tower. There has for
> some time been one, but that year the view from a window was of
> their putting up the second.

> The other major memory was the teacher running a pseudo election
> exercise. She put up one girl to nominate three people. To be
> fair, at least one person had to be of a different sex than the
> nominator. Naturally, she nominated two girls and a boy.
> Naturally, as the girls vote was split, a boy won.

> The winning boy nominated two boys and a girl. The girl won. She
> nominated two girls and a boy. The boy won.

> The lesson the teacher was trying to present was about split
> votes. Clearly, in this set up, it was wise to nominate two
> members of the opposite sex, and one of your own. That way your
> gender would win every time. The opposite gender would always be
> split. Simple 3rd grade exercise.

> The class, likely much to the teacher's chagrin, never figure out
> the obvious lesson.
I don't get the "obvious" lesson either. Why would girls only vote
for girls, and boys only vote for boys? That would only happen if
the teacher told them to vote that way, in which case the whole
experiment is biased, ridiculous and invalid.
Bob Butler wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:22 pm
> The Republican adults? They learned it. In Florida during the
> 2020 elections, whenever there was a close race, would invent a
> progressive candidate to split the progressive vote. MSNBC is
> harping on it, calling it voter fraud, spending just enough money
> to split the vote, not enough to actually win. Should it be
> illegal? Or should it just be considered clever?
Vote-splitting strategies are common for both parties. Once again, this
is ridiculous.
Bob Butler wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:22 pm
> But I guess that's the difference between the KKK and the
> Republicans. The KKK will only truly endorse, will spend their
> political influence on candidates they hope will win. The
> Republicans are quite happy splitting the other guy's vote. Much
> easier, cheaper and effective than putting out a message that
> favors the people.
This is ridiculous and doesn't make sense. Trump supporters find the KKK
repulsive. A KKK endorsement of a Republican would have no effect on
the Republicans, but would convince the Democrats to vote against the
Republican, and that's the point. A KKK endorsement of a Republican
helps the Democrat, not the Republican.

The KKK is a Democrat party organization, always has been, always will
be. For a century, Democrats in the KKK spent the century lynching,
torturing, raping, and killing blacks. Then they learned how to
enslave blacks anyway by impoverishing the women and forcing them to
obey the their White Democrat Masters to get welfare. At that point,
the KKK transitioned into an organization to endorse Republicans to
help the Democrats. The Republicans are and always have been the
party of equality and freedom, while the Democrats are and always have
been the party of hatred, bigotry and slavery.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

I made the mistake of taking to my sister about girl - boy segregation in early grades. She is a retired first grade teacher with a masters in early childhood education. I got back more than I anticipated. Perhaps the girls and boys entrance was dated even in the early 1960s, staying beyond its time because that was the way it was always done. In her experience when boys played with blocks they built towers, while girls build enclosure that would group likes. She mentioned a few exceptions, one boy who usually dressed in pink and hung with the girls, last seen much later at a gay pride parade. Another girl she had who liked balls as a youngster was last seen winning adult sports tournaments. Apparently it is a big study in academic education circles, fashions are changing, the stereotypes are becoming more rare, but there definitely are differences and that we amateurs shouldn’t voice our opinions.

Sisters….

Anyway, in my youth there definitely was gender segregation and a valid experiment.

***

Can you give examples of the Democrats creating fake conservative candidates? I know the Republicans do it in Florida and elsewhere. Gaetz and Greenberg are caught up in one case that MSNBC is pushing. It sorta makes sense that the Democrats would do it too, but I haven’t heard of it. I also know you will lie to further your stereotypes, so I can’t take your word for things unless you provide references.

***

Tump, the KKK and a minority of Republicans are really into xenophobia, and this puts them in conflict with perspectives which include WEIRD principles like democracy, equality and human rights. Take the recent trend towards voter suppression, where the Republican state legislatures are making it more difficult for urban folks to vote while the Democrats are pursuing voter rights bills.

The parties swapped racial positions in LBJ’s and Nixon’s times, when the Republicans adopted the Southern Strategy. You really ought to get in the habit or researching history. Your ignorance is amazing at times.

Again, I am all for what Lincoln and the abolitionists advocated in the time of the US Civil War, and find xenophobia and tribal thinking abhorrent. Yes, parts of the world that have not encountered nukes, insurgency and proxy war are still dominated by tribal thinking. To understand these parts of the world you have to understand and anticipate tribal thinking. Thing is, those areas who find it prudent to go beyond tribal thought are the far more desirable places to live and work. Celebrating and even endorsing the way things used to be is deplorable.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:46 pm
Via aeden
Please move this post to the Generational Dynamics or Junk threads, there being little difference. If you believe individual threads should be able to advance specific ideas, I'll make it clear the racist xenophobic content of Generational Dynamics do not belong here. The ideas expressed above do nothing to advance the knowledge of Polyticks. Please keep your racist xenophobic thoughts elsewhere.

If you don't believe this, I could be more active elsewhere?

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

** 12-Apr-2021 World View: Black Lives Matter
Bob Butler wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:05 pm
> Please move this post to the Generational Dynamics or Junk
> threads, there being little difference. If you believe individual
> threads should be able to advance specific ideas, I'll make it
> clear the racist xenophobic content of Generational Dynamics do
> not belong here. The ideas expressed above do nothing to advance
> the knowledge of Polyticks. Please keep your racist xenophobic
> thoughts elsewhere.

> If you don't believe this, I could be more active
> elsewhere?
My purpose in posting the article is to respond your previous lies and
false claims that blm is an organization that's helping blacks, when,
in fact, it's a violent Marxist-Fascist organization that is burning
down cities, and extorting money that the sleazy, greedy people
running it, along with other Democrats, can use for their own benefit,
rather than using the money to benefit black people. Trump helped
black people, but Democrats never help black people, but only enslave
them for their own benefit.

So I've deleted the posting as you've requested, but I'll save it and
may re-post it again the next time that you lie about blm.

This thread is yours, and you're welcome to post any lies or garbage
that you want in this thread, but are you now saying that you don't
want anyone to respond to your lies and garbage? If that's what you
want, then I can move the thread to another sub-forum where only you
can access it. That will "protect" you from any responses, and then
you can just talk to yourself and lie to yourself all you want. Let
me know if that's what you want.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

I don’t think either of us wants the other spamming each other’s threads with politicians behaving badly. I have often said no single group is pure, that people have one and only one motivation. If such were the case, all one would have to do if find one person belonging to a group and you would be able to smear the whole group with the bad motivation. Not that simple. Nor are the Republicans all that pure right now. If I got into the habit of reporting on the Big Lie every time I stumbled across an article, I could really increase the volume of the Generational Dynamics thread, but would that improve the understating of Generational Dynamics?

A ‘politicians behaving badly’ thread wouldn’t be an entirely bad idea, but it shouldn’t imply the motives of every organization they belong to. Politicians do behave badly, especially if their party has been dominant too long.

If someone wants to answer a point made in the Polyticks thread that responds to something I’ve said, fine, but I don’t think either of us wants spam about how miserable this politician or that is dominating a thread.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

MSNBC last night had some cameras near Minneapolis where the latest police shooting of an unarmed black person occurred. They had their camera pan first to a police station, where protestors were confronting police, some of whom exchanged fireworks for tear gas canisters. The camera then panned to where people were coming out of a local store with shopping carts full of goods they hadn’t paid for heading for their cars. Guess where you found the protestors? The looters? The thing is some people thought black lives matter, while some people just wanted stuff, and these two groups had very different motivations. A single individual might not be pure in one or the other, but both groups could easily be stereotyped quite separately.

What if somebody hones into one motivation and claims falsely the other doesn’t exist when it so obviously does?

In a recent post you accused me of being a criminal, without evidence and without proof. It goes beyond the point of maybe being mistaken to out right lies and propaganda. A comment that creates facts out of thin air leaves the accuser with no credibility. It is possible to say somewhat when you do it. When someone has a worldview that conflicts with your own he is demonized with crude absurd lies. There is no link to a reference with a source to back it up. Unfortunately, whenever your ideological bias makes you not like someone’s view, you think nothing of slandering him. The net effect is that your impression of motivations isn’t worth anything.

Now there are several traditional conservative ways of looking at things that are quite reasonable and understandable. Rural areas do not see some problems in as great an extent as urban areas, and conservatives are not inclined to solve these problems. In a less dense rural area one is likely to be independent, where in crowded urban areas people are apt to work together and specialize. Both parties tend towards corruption if they have been dominating too long, so keeping government small and fighting corruption makes some sense. Keeping capitalism strong has its points, but working for a particular company to profit off the government is dubious. Again, there are conservatives that are quite honorable. If I disagree with them I can see the cause of the disagreement and almost respect it.

Racism? Elitism? Corruption? Obstruction? Voter fraud? Some things are just objectionable and should be solved with law and order.

Now it is easy enough to find someone who is flawed. It is not enough to say that because this guy does this, or that guy does that, that all conservatives or all Republicans are that way. Finding one politician behaving badly does not mean that everyone associated with him or his organization behaves badly. Generally, name a group and you can find someone with bad motivations. This does not give you the right to presume everybody in the organization is bad. Suppose I prove McConnell is into obstruction, and that the Republican senators following his lead are buying into it. Does that mean all Republicans are obstructionist? Similarly, if Trump has been into voter fraud and lies, does it mean the judges that ruled 50 to 1 against him or the local officials who were more true to the law than into Trump should be painted with the same brush? Hardly.

Thus I am not inclined to believe that just because one conservative will invent lies out of whole cloth, that all Republicans are equally unable to defend their worldview. Just because you can find one person involved in Black Lives Matter that is unscrupulous, that doesn’t mean black lives don’t matter or that all people in the organization are discredited by the acts of one.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

Guest wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:13 am
Have you had enough of this? If you voted for Biden, you voted for this.
Right now, if the police continue murdering black folks that is what you are going to get. The cops will eventually learn. This time, I believe the cop when she claimed an accident, but I am dubious that everyone hanging an air freshener on his mirror gets pulled over. Will they look for an excuse if a black guy is driving a white girl? Will the black guy get harassed under those circumstances?

The problem is real, and has more to do with cop behavior than the air freshener.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

** 13-Apr-2021 World View: Criminal conspirator
Guest wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:13 am
> Have you had enough of this? If you voted for Biden, you voted for
> this.

Image
Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:18 pm
> Right now, if the police continue murdering black folks that is
> what you are going to get. The cops will eventually learn. This
> time, I believe the cop when she claimed an accident, but I am
> dubious that everyone hanging an air freshener on his mirror gets
> pulled over. Will they look for an excuse if a black guy is
> driving a white girl? Will the black guy get harassed under those
> circumstances?

> The problem is real, and has more to do with cop behavior than the
> air freshener.
You've complained when I described your behavior as "criminal," and you
said that I made up facts. I did not make up facts, and this posting
is a perfect example of what I said.

First, "continue murdering black folks" is a lie. According to
statistics I've heard several times on tv, police make hundreds of
thousands of traffic stops each year, but only about ten of those per
year lead to a white cop shooting a black driver, and many more lead
to shooting of a white driver.

But even if the white cop did intentionally shoot a black driver, this
does not justify massive antifa-blm fascist violence, burning cars, or
burning down cities. By saying "this is what you get," you are
excusing, condoning, supporting and encouraging extreme violent
fascist behavior, and that makes you, at the very least, a criminal
conspirator. The same could be said of Kamala Harris and many other
Democrats, who exhibit similar criminal behavior.

So your latest post exactly illustrates the point I was making. Thank
you.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

That is what you are going to get. Minorities have been oppressed in the US since they arrived in the slave ships. It is going to stop eventually. The greatest problems in a culture are addressed in a crisis. The worst conservative values are subdued. Get used to it. My predicting this is similar to your projecting violent xenophobic reactions abroad where tribal thinking is still dominant. You might make a correct prediction, but you are not the cause of the violence.

I still believe that the areas where tribal thinking are dominant do not do as well as WEIRD areas. If you have racism, hatred and oppression as dominant features of the culture, you expect otherwise? If you object to things like democracy, human rights and equality, have you got your head on straight?

I really don’t think you could build a case for criminal conspiracy and press for someone to prosecute. Free speech in America is still dominant over your clumsy attempts at Stalanist censorship. I think you are lying and making stuff up out of whole cloth because I disagree with your worldview. You are into tribal thinking, hatred and oppression of people who are different. It is what you do. We’d be better off without it.
Last edited by Bob Butler on Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

What I mean by values changing is reflected in the news. I think it was Virginia where some cops are being sued for stopping and harassing a black man actively on duty in the military. They put George Floyd’s killer on trial. The recent killer in Brooklyn Heights Minnesota resigned. If you are into racist oppression you are running into a widespread public pressure to stop. Hanging out at an obscure web site is still on the free speech side of that issue, but practice hatred or impression in the real world you will find yourself bucking the tide.

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