Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

[Bob Butler]

Nobody was killed on January 6 except Ashli Babbitt, a pretty young girl, a Trump supporter, just walking through the Capitol building.

I suppose the Battle of Britain could be described as a bunch of handsome blue eyed blonds seeing the sights of London, treated rudely by the natives. I could debunk the whole post from which this was taken, but it seems more prudent to note how a partisan descriptor of something can be truthful while twisting the meaning of the event entirely.

I see the Big Lie about the 2020 election coming apart. The Arizona Republicans are starting to become embarrassed by the Trump followers. The Little Lie about Covid being a harmless non threat is starting to come apart too. Enough people have died that even a Republican can begin to wonder.

But some die hards are determined to imagine away at one another…

[John]

*** Arizona ‘bracing for impact’ of Trump-driven election report

*** https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/1 ... 24?cid=apn

(Politico, 8/19/2021)

[spottybrowncow]

. I could debunk the whole post from which this was taken, but it seems more prudent to note how a partisan descriptor of something can be truthful while twisting the meaning of the event entirely.

Until / unless you add logical reasoning to whatever your present skill set is, you aren't capable of "debunking" anything.

[Bob Butler]

. I could debunk the whole post from which this was taken, but it seems more prudent to note how a partisan descriptor of something can be truthful while twisting the meaning of the event entirely.

Until / unless you add logical reasoning to whatever your present skill set is, you aren't capable of "debunking" anything.

To a partisan's satisfaction, yes. I've been in a number of history and politics web sites. Only once did I see someone's base position change, and I suspect that was because he was a troll. For years he played the devoted communist, spouted the communist party line, and would not budge from it. Then suddenly he became a Trump fan, and would not budge from that. It seemed that whatever position would upset the majority of the posters most he would loudly proclaim that position. Stalin. Trump. No matter. I scratched my head, said troll, and he disappeared.

But the sincere advocate for the extreme positions, be it Stalin, Trump or Lincoln, never changes. They will just double down on their extreme position until it becomes untennable. Then he quietly vanishes.

I suppose it really is futile. People will only change their worldview if their worldview totally fails them, as it did after Yorktown, Atlanta or Hiroshima. If a crisis fails your worldview badly enough, you at least pretend to go along with the values shift. You got flight to Canada by the royalists, the loss of slavery by the confederacy or Japan turning from aggressive tribal thinkers to pacifist who would barely contribute to their own defense. How long will conservatives cling to their views this time around? How will the collapse of their loudly held values happen? How will they pretend that their precious beliefs were never held? It is one thing to know it will happen, to watch the crisis occur yet again, the greatest problem faced by the progressives and the culture solved. This time it will seemingly be by the collapse of the Big Lie and the Covid refusal to get vaccinated. It seems to be happening as we speak. It is another thing entirely to get the die hards to admit it.

Old partisans never change. They just quietly vanish from a website without admitting they are wrong.

[FullMoon]

Old partisans never change is correct.
Describes the Bish quite well.
Liberalism has failed the people and they know it. Sadly the alternative will be worse. But the closed minded bigotry of the left is showing to be the cause. You will carry the blame in history for what will soon transpire.

[Bob Butler]

Old partisans never change is correct.
Describes the Bish quite well.
Liberalism has failed the people and they know it. Sadly the alternative will be worse. But the closed minded bigotry of the left is showing to be the cause. You will carry the blame in history for what will soon transpire.

If so, it would be a first for America. The conservative side that does not want to solve problems generally loses out come the crisis to the progressive side that saw the problem and tried to solve it. The notion that no, we shouldn’t try to cure Covid, or no, we shouldn’t address systematic racism, clearly draws the lines.

It is possible to agree closed minded bigotry is in play, and that someone will bear the blame when the history books are written, but if you follow the S&H theory, it has been clear for turnings how things will run in the long term.

[FullMoon]

When liberalism devolves into either something like fascism or communism, we in the free world have seen the effects. We are now again in such an existential crisis. John has documented quite accurately the condition. Yes, he's somewhat excessive with criticism. He should take his emotions before typing, yes, but we're all guilty of such things. His analysis is, unfortunately,... accurate. And yours has been found lacking.

[Bob Butler]

When liberalism devolves into either something like fascism or communism, we in the free world have seen the effects. We are now again in such an existential crisis. John has documented quite accurately the condition. Yes, he's somewhat excessive with criticism. He should take his emotions before typing, yes, but we're all guilty of such things. His analysis is, unfortunately,... accurate. And yours has been found lacking.

Fascism came to its height in the early 1940s. It was thought that conquest would be cost effective. Silly them. There was a belief in the fair skin blue eyed blonds that were supposedly superior aryan supermen, with races like the Jews and Slavs inferior. It was tribal thinking. The racism in America is focused in on the Republican Party. Note it was the racist organizations that involved themselves in the January 6 insurrection. Calling the party that is not into tribal thinking but supports minorities fascist is kind of silly. It requires complete redefinition of the meaning of the word.

The communism of Lenin, Stalin and Mao is dead. Even they were quite distinct from Marx. They cared far more about themselves than the working man. They created a new elite class. They were never what they claimed to be. These days communism has evolved into something else. In China they call themselves the Communist Party still. In Russia they no longer even pretend. But there is a strange hybrid of communist selfish autocracy with pseudo capitalist selfish oligarchs. Robber barons. That from the gilded age on is more closely associated with Republican politics. What is good for General Motors is supposedly good for America, at least until they actually need a loan of a size only the government could give, and Obama was the one who made sure they got it.

Conservatives can lie to each other about liberal policies. Truth is, of the two parties these days, the Republicans are the closer to fascist and communist behaviors. Not that close. Fascism and communism as practiced in the last century is quite dead. I can easily distinguish between Hitler’s and Stalin’s policy and the Republicans. They two aren’t really that close. Oh, Bush 43 with his Neo Cons and war for oil believed in conquest. Trump believes in racist organizations. But there is a real difference between the modern Republicans and Hitler’s and Stalin’s policies.

But if one is divorced from reality and into name calling, any name will do I suppose. The names just are not appropriate. Liberal politics are not perfect. Legitimate criticism is quite possible. But when the best one can do is accuse them of sins the conservatives are more guilty of, you are getting pretty desperate.

[FullMoon]

When liberalism devolves into either something like fascism or communism, we in the free world have seen the effects. We are now again in such an existential crisis. John has documented quite accurately the condition. Yes, he's somewhat excessive with criticism. He should take his emotions before typing, yes, but we're all guilty of such things. His analysis is, unfortunately,... accurate. And yours has been found lacking.

Fascism came to its height in the early 1940s. It was thought that conquest would be cost effective. Silly them. There was a belief in the fair skin blue eyed blonds that were supposedly superior aryan supermen, with races like the Jews and Slavs inferior. It was tribal thinking. The racism in America is focused in on the Republican Party. Note it was the racist organizations that involved themselves in the January 6 insurrection. Calling the party that is not into tribal thinking but supports minorities fascist is kind of silly. It requires complete redefinition of the meaning of the word.

The communism of Lenin, Stalin and Mao is dead. Even they were quite distinct from Marx. They cared far more about themselves than the working man. They created a new elite class. They were never what they claimed to be. These days communism has evolved into something else. In China they call themselves the Communist Party still. In Russia they no longer even pretend. But there is a strange hybrid of communist selfish autocracy with pseudo capitalist selfish oligarchs. Robber barons. That from the gilded age on is more closely associated with Republican politics. What is good for General Motors is supposedly good for America, at least until they actually need a loan of a size only the government could give, and Obama was the one who made sure they got it.

Conservatives can lie to each other about liberal policies. Truth is, of the two parties these days, the Republicans are the closer to fascist and communist behaviors. Not that close. Fascism and communism as practiced in the last century is quite dead. I can easily distinguish between Hitler’s and Stalin’s policy and the Republicans. They two aren’t really that close. Oh, Bush 43 with his Neo Cons and war for oil believed in conquest. Trump believes in racist organizations. But there is a real difference between the modern Republicans and Hitler’s and Stalin’s policies.

But if one is divorced from reality and into name calling, any name will do I suppose. The names just are not appropriate. Liberal politics are not perfect. Legitimate criticism is quite possible. But when the best one can do is accuse them of sins the conservatives are more guilty of, you are getting pretty desperate.
[/quote
Although without the niceties some would prefer, John has demonstrated through evidence and logical deduction who the perpetrators of Stalinist policies in the USA are. Although he blames the DNC, they both are and are not guilty. Guilty because it's their party. Not guilty because it's a nefarious clique running the show. That you can't see this explains your criticism justly received. If you could get your head out of your own aszz long enough to go out and learn about the world out there you might understand. At this point it's truth deniers of your ilk and open traitors of greatest danger to our body politic. And yet you cannot even try to understand another worldview.

[Bob Butler]

Although without the niceties some would prefer, John has demonstrated through evidence and logical deduction who the perpetrators of Stalinist policies in the USA are. Although he blames the DNC, they both are and are not guilty. Guilty because it's their party. Not guilty because it's a nefarious clique running the show. That you can't see this explains your criticism justly received. If you could get your head out of your own aszz long enough to go out and learn about the world out there you might understand. At this point it's truth deniers of your ilk and open traitors of greatest danger to our body politic. And yet you cannot even try to understand another worldview.

John and a lot of others here have a different idea of what the greatest flaw of Stalin and communism were. For me, it was their selfishness in keeping power in their own hands and opposition to the common man.

Here, there seems to be opposition to working for the common good. That is a function identified in the US Constitution, thus an un-American definition. It is, however, the extreme of small government, the racist policy of providing as little as possible to the working man in order to provide as little as possible to minorities. I think this has been done too much, and that the popularity of infrastructure and other Democratic initiatives are giving the Democrats an advantage. However, if the Republicans continue obstructionism, opposing everything popular that the Democrats are trying to do, I anticipate an outcome that will be to the Democrats advantage.

I note nothing was said about calling a modern US party fascist. This is typical in throwing around absurd claims the failing to defend them.