Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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Bob Butler
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Prostitution and Broomsticks

Post by Bob Butler »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:20 am
John wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:41 am
as an example of the insanity of left wingers, go back and read your Trump on a broomstick fantasy.
I often wonder what his brain does when he reads all those examples that are so clearly true and the case. What I propose is that his brain reads the words and understands them, but his soul trumps the truth because he wants to believe the lie. That's most people sadly. Ego preservation for a lot of people, or prostitution (money to look the other way). A common tactic of the left since they have no principle. Hey, vote for us and we'll give you a bit of money for all of this power! Oh, thanks, clown, now we control more and more and freedoms are nullified, perfect for our continued gargantuan growth and power mongering.

Live not by lies, Bob
And yet I recognize that the broomstick fantasy is just a fantasy. If you follow the January 6 Committee’s presentations, Trump broke the law, attempted to block the people’s choice, is threatening the FBI, is a supporter of armed insurrection, and considers himself above the Secrets Act. Imaging him as a bad guy is a fantasy how?

If there is anything positive about the insurrection it is that it moved us beyond Black Lives Matter and conservative extremists driving though protests or shooting up minority gathering places. The extremists are too busy defending themselves from criminal acts to practice racism. This is a plus I guess. If we are going to end the reaction to the success of the first black president, I suppose a failed insurrection is worth it. The racists are being driven to much to defending themselves. I'd as soon they find a different way, but I'll take it. With luck the Democrats will pick up a few Senate seats, kill the filibuster, and pass voting rights legislation.

These days you do not need racism as an excuse to shoot up places. Spree killers can arm themselves with assault rifles, and can kill without reason other than their own failures as people. Is that a win? Is that too different than their using racism as an excuse?

I agree one should not live by lies, but who initiated the Big Lie? John has seen many valid things, but last I knew he was still supporting the Big Lie. Being conservative, he is much too likely to believe what he wants to believe. In comparison, progressives are much more apt to cling to the facts, not engage in criminal activity, not to pardon co-conspirators, to respect the science. It was Trump who would have people cure Covid by drinking bleach.

Prostitution is another case like abortion. It is considered a sin by some, so one attempts to impose one’s values on others. I am not enthused about the government doing that. I see prostitution laws as a more cultural thing, not about political power to speak of. I also don’t spend a lot of energy on the issue let alone lie about it. But you will lie about it. Live not by lies.

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Re: Prostitution and Broomsticks

Post by Cool Breeze »

Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:55 am
If you follow the January 6 Committee’s presentations, Trump broke the law, attempted to block the people’s choice, is threatening the FBI, is a supporter of armed insurrection, and considers himself above the Secrets Act. Imaging him as a bad guy is a fantasy how?
Strike that. If you follow the presentations, you see the fantasy stuff you made up. A normal person sees that the FBI had personnel there, lied about many things (like the media with the guy that died 6 months later, claiming he was hit with a fire extinguisher. Oh, you forgot that lie too?), tried to set the president up, and had the same FBI guy in charge that faked the Whitmer entrapment in Michigan, which the people accused were acquitted of. The sick, illegal entity here is the FBI. You have zero evidence to back your claims, which is why you didn't, and why you can't. You just reference "the presentations". Grow up and actually use arguments with facts in them.
These days you do not need racism as an excuse to shoot up places. Spree killers can arm themselves with assault rifles, and can kill without reason other than their own failures as people. Is that a win? Is that too different than their using racism as an excuse?
Blacks do a fine job at killing their own and others, to a degree not even comparable to other groups. But it's the other people that are violent and racists, right Bobby B?
Being conservative, he is much too likely to believe what he wants to believe.
Projection, as I've already pointed out 3 things just in your last post that you in fact do this, not John or any "conservative."

Those of the father of lies slander the truth. I know who my father is, and you do the bidding of another, whose entire existence is based on chaos, lies and destruction. But you call bad, good and good, bad so what more do we need to say?

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Lie lie lie...

Post by Bob Butler »

Years ago a group declared a friend of mine dead and tried to steal her father’s inheritance. It was a paper trail murder. If the court sees her out of the picture, they will give a million plus bucks to someone else? The group that did it was also part of a drug gang, and have been attempting harassment ever since. Good thing she is absurdly stubborn. Just last week the bad guys stole then totaled one car, and forced the replacement off the road. I have bought the replacement car, then paid for repairs on it. This is just the latest episode of what my sister calls ‘The Saga’. In the past we’ve dealt with lost custody of children, bad cops so determined to make bogus traffic stops that they ignored jurisdiction, Social Security payments canceled, mail redirected, DNA testing to prove her identity, so many negative drug tests that her doctor told the judge enough is enough, etc…

The prostitute, the bad cop, the bad lawyer who are central to The Saga are all white thank you. Drug groups are bad regardless of race. There are black gangs too. I suspect they are comparably bad or worse. But it is the drugs that are the problem. You get to care more about sex and drugs than family and security. Anything for the next fix. My friend didn’t want to see it, didn’t want to understand, but has recently seen it and given up. There is something about losing two cars that let even her acknowledge you can’t help some people. People are most reluctant to shift values, but she finally did.

Everybody has worldviews. Dealing with The Saga, druggies make conservatives seem to have only mild differences. But such worldviews make you see things differently, likely including progressives. The right world view can make Trump look like a good guy.

You obviously haven’t been following the January 6 Committee. Your worldview still includes the Big Lie. At this point this takes considerable determination for your mind set to override reality. The warpage in seeing a different reality is comparable with what I’ve seen in The Saga. Would you consider watching MSNBC or a similar mainstream news source for a few nights to see what the progressives understand about reality? Living in dreamland you look awfully silly. You have to say ‘lie lie lie’ as much as Simon and Garfunkel did in The Boxer. (The entire chorus was the word ‘lie’ repeated often.) It makes it impossible to communicate with you if you assume the other guy is lying continuously, almost as bad as if someone is lying continuously.

A while ago I disagreed with John about the merits of the Big Lie. Back then, I figured his worldview would override reality, so I didn’t push it. Eventually it would come clear. About now, it ought to be clear. But it seems obvious that much of the country can actually live in and believe in their alternate reality. I don’t know how common that actually is. How many people here still believe the Big Lie?

Last night, MSNBC released a new poll. What are the most important issues of the upcoming mid terms? To everyone’s surprise, the hands down winner was ‘protecting America’s democracy’. Hint. How to do it doesn’t involve insurrection, fake electors, and browbeating people to ignore the people’s vote.
Last edited by Bob Butler on Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

GMAB

Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by GMAB »

-- Democrats aka Lefts aka Liberals aka Progressives outright voted against multiple Civil Rights bills post-Civil War for a hundred years until they decided to use civil rights in the 1960s as a tool in their attempts to forever keep power by re-enslaving the Black Community, now as their personal voters. But even all those manipulations cannot assure them of election wins because Liberals SUCK at governing, and it's the #1 reason why the southern border is now wide open. It's not because Liberals are benevolent, it's because Liberals need the votes. Democrats have been recently reported to be readying an executive order for Biden to sign to "allow" illegals to vote in the November 2022 election. The mayor of D.C. and the Governor of NY and the NYC mayor are freaking out because illegals are being physically transferred into their political enclaves by the busloads. I remember them being very smug and condescending when illegals were flooding Texas. Very amusing inasmuch as what goes around, comes around.
-- Black men had the right to vote before women of any color, and it was DEMOCRATS that were so fervently and violently against the black vote until they decided in the 1960s that it could be a useful tool to keep them in power.
-- Liberals ALWAYS seek to force their point of view, never allowing any other point of view to see the light of day; hence, they are fertile ground for communist indoctrination. Ever wonder why teachers, especially university teachers, are historically among the 1st people that violent Communists "cleanse" once they obtain power and have no further use for their services of indoctrinating the pre-communist youth into communism? Example: See "Anywhere USA" today. There are basically ZERO conservatives in the university setting anywhere anymore.
-- When a new wave of immigrants arrived in North America, it was ALWAYS about them taking jobs and opportunities away from the people already living in America, which you translate as "racism." Same goes for today. Anthony Johnson was a BLACK landowner who has the historical honor of being the 1st person to cause a fellow black man to become a slave for life in what is now known as the USA through a civil proceeding. Calls of "racism" always serves the Democrat agenda because it divides the country so much that it makes it almost virtually impossible to band together long enough to exercise the Constitutional right to overthrow a tyrannical government.

I could go on but you already seem well-entrenched in your false, anti-conservative assumptions.
But please go ahead and enjoy your new Democrat-authored higher taxes and energy bills based on faked man-made "climate change."
Hopefully one day "woke" will evolve to mean "awake" for you.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by jdcpapa »

Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:29 am

You obviously haven’t been following the January 6 Committee.
Alan Dershowitz a self-proclaimed liberal democrat had this to say about the January 6 Select Committee:

The makeup of the House Jan. 6 Select Committee and lack of due process or cross-examination are going to render any findings as lacking credibility, legal expert Alan Dershowitz told Newsmax.

"It's not a real congressional committee," Dershowitz told Wednesday's "Spicer & Co." "As you know, every congressional committee that we remember — even the McCarthy committees had people on the other side who could cross-examine.

"This is not a real committee. This is a kangaroo committee. It only has opponents of Donald Trump and all of his advisers."

Dershowitz told host Sean Spicer he is "not a fan" of the events of Jan. 6, 2021, but he has released his 50th book, "The Price of Principle: Why Integrity Is Worth the Consequences," and said the principles of law and due process should still rule in the United States.

"Due process for thee but not for me isn't justified," Dershowitz continued. "And therefore, I don't think that the Jan. 6 committee's report will have the kind of credibility that the 9/11 commission report, for example, had."

Dershowitz asserted that the Warren Commission's report on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy is also an example of a work of fiction.

"Woody Allen still talks about one day we'll hear the nonfiction version of the Warren Commission, but we haven't seen that yet, and I think we're going to hear about this as the nonfiction version, ultimately, of the Jan. 6," Dershowitz said.

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Bob Butler
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The Swap

Post by Bob Butler »

GMAB

You seem to share a view of history that is quite common around here, but quite distinct from mine. If you want to be convincing, you’d have to figure out what I truly believe.

Around the time of the Civil War, there was a southern, rural, agricultural, racist, conservative, stay the same, Democratic faction. The fought (literally) a northern, urban, manufacturing, abolitionist, progressive, fix the problem, Republican faction. Thus, you had the Democrats doing any number of racist improper things. You make the mistake that parties never change policies. In LBJ’s and MLK’s time it became natural for the progressives and civil rights factions to come together. This was followed a little later by Nixon’s southern strategy in opposition. Thus, on issues of race, the parties swapped sides. Conservatives spend a lot of vitriol and energy vehemently criticizing themselves.

At least as I understand history, you can say as many bad things as you like about the racism of the rural agricultural faction. Just remember, the conservatives are still the rural agricultural faction. If you doubt, where are the Red states? What color is the former Confederacy?

When Europeans were occupying the urban area in the gilded age, they encountered and aligned with the Democratic machine politics. Politicians like Boss Tweed would send his people to meet the immigrant ships, telling the newcomers where to find a place to live, where to find a job, and who to vote for. The Guilded age was messy. In the south, the Democrats were with the KKK and promoting the post slavery version of racism. In the northern cities they were with the immigrants and by implication against the Robber Barons. But you have to study history to pick up the nuances. The racism wasn’t always about race. Many European immigrants were lily white, but they were still looked down upon by those who came before.

Socialism? Communism? That is another common myth among the conservatives. Trump and Putin are buddies. It is the conservative faction that is affiliated with autocracy, that is trying to bypass democracy. In Europe, Socialism means the government tries to help the people. I’m fine with that, but autocracy is not fine. It is obsolete.

I will confess to having mixed feelings of the Chinese Revolution and Vietnam War. Part of me says the west had to contain communism, and sees entirely why we sided against the will of the people. The other side of me sees that Marx had a point. There comes time for the people to rise against their oppressors. It is unfortunate that the Marxist revolutions were in autocratic cultures. If the revolutionaries won, they would create another autocratic culture. By now, though, Taiwan treats its people better than China does theirs. It is clear which side is for democracy and human rights.

I’ll stick with that for now.
Last edited by Bob Butler on Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jan 6 Committee Structure

Post by Bob Butler »

jdcpapa wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:17 pm
The makeup of the House Jan. 6 Select Committee and lack of due process or cross-examination are going to render any findings as lacking credibility, legal expert Alan Dershowitz told Newsmax.
An almost valid criticism of the January 6th Committee, but that was the Republican choice. The Democrats tried to form the usual joint commission, but the Republicans chose not to join. The only Republicans on the committee went against the wishes of the leadership and are not so interested in an honest cross examination. But there hasn’t really been a good look into some alternate investigations, the DOJ, in New York, in Georgia. I get the feeling that Trump will get his day in court, but it will go no better than the 59 out of 60 initial attempts. Traditionally in the American justice system, early on there is not cross examination. That waits on the trial. There is lots of talk about there being evidence of a corrupt election, but the years go by and they still have not come up with any.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Tom Mazanec »

Abortion is baby murder.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

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Abortion as a universal value?

Post by Bob Butler »

Tom Mazanec wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:32 am
Abortion is baby murder.
This seems my week to provide counter example of a bunch of scattershot values which some believe should be universal. Perfectly good values, but not the only ones.

Let’s assume that abortion is part of one or many worldviews. Do you have the right to impose a worldview on others that do not share it? I am tempted to press a buzzer button and assert wrong. You lose me right there. One culture does not have the power to dictate to others.

Alternative views of the specific issue? It is not permissible to destroy or kill sentient beings. It is permissible in most cultures to kill animals to eat their meat. This implies a definition of sentient which is somewhere above cows, chicken or lambs, but below men. Thus, if you are from a meat eating culture, it is improper morally to kill something of greater intelligence than a meat animal. This leaves someone who eats meat but tries to restrict abortion on questionable ground.

Sentient seems near describing an animal capable of language. If so, the great apes and others are near it, at least with sign language if not vocal apparatus. Dolphins? Some parrots and other verbal birds who can use their limited vocabulary meaningfully? (There is one example of a pet parrot urgently flying to a mother whose baby was choking. “Baby Mama! Baby Mama!” Such an example is pretty good. Should we be concerned about killing parrots or great apes?) For the moment, let us draw the line near there. Is an early on fetus capable of language? Anywhere close? If not, abortion can be regarded as not a moral question.

The question of abortion is a religious tradition of some cultures. The government has no business enforcing it upon other cultures.

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Re: Jan 6 Committee Structure

Post by jdcpapa »

Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:56 pm
jdcpapa wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:17 pm
The makeup of the House Jan. 6 Select Committee and lack of due process or cross-examination are going to render any findings as lacking credibility, legal expert Alan Dershowitz told Newsmax.
An almost valid criticism of the January 6th Committee, but that was the Republican choice. The Democrats tried to form the usual joint commission, but the Republicans chose not to join. The only Republicans on the committee went against the wishes of the leadership and are not so interested in an honest cross examination.
Bob Butler wrote: If you want to be convincing, you’d have to figure out what I truly believe.
Apparently the democrats did not try to form the USUAL joint commission:

The Democrat-led committee to investigate the Jan. 6 insurrection is off to a turbulent start.~Deseret news:

Disarray over the House Select Committee to Investigate January 6th Attack on the U.S. Capitol escalated Wednesday as party leaders sparred over who could serve on the investigative body.

Republican Liz Cheney joins House committee to investigate Jan. 6 insurrection. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., withdrew his handful of nominees to the committee on Wednesday after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., refused to allow two of McCarthy’s five nominations from participating in the House’s investigation into Jan. 6, The Hill reported.

Pelosi, who has final approval of the committee’s members, said in a statement Wednesday that she “must reject the recommendations” of Republican Congressmen Jim Banks, of Indiana, and Jim Jordan, of Ohio, to the investigative team.

Both Jordan and Banks have been adamant supporters of former President Donald Trump, who was impeached for “incitement of insurrection” after his supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6., according the The Hill. McCarthy promptly pushed back against Pelosi’s rejection of two congressmen to the committee, and, in a statement, called the speaker’s actions “an egregious abuse of power.”

The minority leader said that unless all five nominees are approved — which includes Reps. Rodney Davis, of Illinois, Kelly Armstrong, of North Dakota, and Troy Nehls, of Texas, that were OK’d by Pelosi — Republicans would “pursue their own investigation.”


“They (Democrats) want to make this all about Donald Trump, dragging Republican members of Congress through the mud and attacking 75 million people that voted for Donald Trump,” Banks alleged in an interview with the New York Post on Wednesday."

Alan Dershowitz, legal expert and liberal democrat states that EVERY previous congressional committee "had people on the other side who could cross examine":

"It's not a real congressional committee," Dershowitz told Wednesday's "Spicer & Co." "As you know, every congressional committee that we remember — even the McCarthy committees had people on the other side who could cross-examine.". "This is not a real committee. This is a kangaroo committee. It only has opponents of Donald Trump and all of his advisers."

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