Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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spottybrowncow
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Re: The Old Values

Post by spottybrowncow »

spottybrowncow wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:23 pm

Mostly I see it in terms of the Red / Blue divide much debated during the unravelling. The Blue values include curing Covid, fighting structural racism, respecting the environment and fixing the infrastructure. The Red are mostly the opposite. Let people die of Covid, oppress minorities, exploit the environment, and let the bridges fall. There are, of course, other issues, but those will do for now.

The old values generally do not address the problems experienced in the crisis. The people see the problems as real. Thus, the crisis generally shifts the culture to the new values.

As soon as Covid is "cured," the next virus will come. Are we going to let our economy be permanently crippled by the inevitable onslaught of new bioweapons?

There is no such thing as structural racism; Thomas Sowell, the smartest back man in the world, says so. Get your head out of your utterly useless ass and smell the coffee.

What environmental problems there are will be solved by innovation in the capitalistic system, or not at all.

The infrastructure will be fixed as those who produce find it necessary. Not before, not by anyone, least of all by a bunch of central planner socialists.

"The people," the real working people, are still too busy trying to keep the world running and be productive for their families to spend a lot of effort countering black lives matter rallies and other socialist tripe. Eventually, when the socialists get too in their face, the normal majority will wake up, and it will not be pretty. But it will be over.

Maybe as early as 2022.

DaKardii
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Re: The Old Values

Post by DaKardii »

Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:01 pm
DaKardii wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:10 pm
What do you consider to be the "old values" this time around?
Mostly I see it in terms of the Red / Blue divide much debated during the unravelling. The Blue values include curing Covid, fighting structural racism, respecting the environment and fixing the infrastructure. The Red are mostly the opposite. Let people die of Covid, oppress minorities, exploit the environment, and let the bridges fall. There are, of course, other issues, but those will do for now.

The old values generally do not address the problems experienced in the crisis. The people see the problems as real. Thus, the crisis generally shifts the culture to the new values.

Of course that is not the most flattering way to present the Red view, nor are the above points emphasized here. This site is more about tribal thinking, which is not emphasized by Red politicians.

Also, there are positive elements in rural thought. If population density is low, it is good to be independent, it is not beneficial to emphasize specialization and teamwork. The problems are less real and visible in rural areas, thus one is less motivated to solve them. The problem is that both parties at the federal level try to do what is best for their voters and thus create one size fits all solutions. As a result, roughly half the country becomes unhappy when the other party is in power.

But I have long wondered if the trend of the old values fading in a crisis holds, how will they hold? Some leaving the country and others interacting with the new establishment as little as possible is one preliminary answer.
Is opposition to authoritarianism (which happens to be coming mostly from the left since the left now controls both Houses and the Presidency) "tribal thinking?"

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Bob Butler
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Authoritarianism, Tribal Thinking, Human Rights and Democracy

Post by Bob Butler »

DaKardii wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:46 pm
Is opposition to authoritarianism (which happens to be coming mostly from the left since the left now controls both Houses and the Presidency) "tribal thinking?"
Tribal Thinking is seeing one’s own group as superior, other groups as inferior, and seeing this as justification for oppression and violence. Authoritarianism is a small group imposing their will on others to their own advantage. The two can and do work hand in hand. When the majority have legitimately taken both houses of Congress and the presidency, you aren’t a small group. That is democracy, not authoritarianism.

There has always been theoretical tension between democracy determining the will of the people and human rights blocking abuses by the government. Even democracy does not justify the government violating human rights. The distinction is that curing disease, respecting human rights, fixing bridges and respecting the environment do not violate human rights. Theses days the conservatives think getting their way a human right. It’s not.

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Bob Butler
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Re: The Old Values

Post by Bob Butler »

spottybrowncow wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:23 pm
As soon as Covid is "cured," the next virus will come...
Double post? It wasn't worth reading the first time...

Covid is a once a century pandemic. It will pass, assuming the Reds wake up, which they have resisted doing to date. It will be a while before something similar happens again. Meanwhile, I see use of bioweapons as the paranoid fear of conservatives. When has it occurred since blankets from a smallpox hospital were given to Native American tribes?

I dislike coffee, though my parents drank it and it better better to smell that to drink. Others have said the opposite of Thomas Sowell. One person saying something does not make it true.

The capitalistic and democratic systems traditionally can work together. Often, democracy works to check capitalistic abuses. I know some conservatives oppose democracy, but they have yet to win their insurrections.

The Agricultural Age and Industrial Age featured many flaws and inequality. Some have been fixed in prior crises and the last Awakening. I anticipate more such flaws will be resolved going on. I can anticipate given tribal thinking that some workers will oppress others, seeing themselves as superior and justified in their prejudice, oppression and violence. These behaviors have not come out ahead in the past. I realize that prejudice and violence is no weak part of the culture, but the result in the past is quite clear. The old values fade.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

In fixing the "double post," I may have accidentally deleted
someone's post. I apologize.

DaKardii
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Re: Authoritarianism, Tribal Thinking, Human Rights and Democracy

Post by DaKardii »

Bob Butler wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:16 am
That is democracy, not authoritarianism.
Authoritarianism can come from democratic regimes, you know.

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Bob Butler
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Re: Authoritarianism, Tribal Thinking, Human Rights and Democracy

Post by Bob Butler »

DaKardii wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:00 pm
Bob Butler wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:16 am
That is democracy, not authoritarianism.
Authoritarianism can come from democratic regimes, you know.
Words can be redefined to mean anything. If you have won both houses of Congress and the presidency, or their equivalent in other countries, it would take a strange definition to make authoritarianism and democracy apply to the same government. Would you care to define 'authoritarianism'?

For me the Republican attempt to use their minority power to block the will of the majority is close. Still, their minority is sizable. I would not call what they are doing Authoritarianism, rather taking advantage of rules made back when both parties were trying to get things done. But to you it seems to mean doing the will of the majority when the minority does not like it.

Again, how would you define authoritarianism?

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Bob Butler
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

Guest wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:30 am
Bobby Bish? Explain who this is, please.
It is one of my nicknames. Cool Breeze and John choose to respond with name calling rather than logic and facts.

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Bob Butler
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Truth, Lies and Discernment.

Post by Bob Butler »

thomasglee wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:24 am
Truth and lies are often mixed together. Hence the need for discernment.
Plus each individual has his own worldview, his own perspective, thus his own criteria for whether something is true or not. For many, either something matches a particular worldview or is false. Fall into that trap and you cannot objectively judge.

spottybrowncow
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by spottybrowncow »

"two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch"

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