Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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thomasglee
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Re: Collectivism

Post by thomasglee »

Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:09 am
Cool Breeze wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:21 pm
Those who rely on collectivism, that is, unhealthy central authoritarian collectivism, are losers. That's why they do it. You can bet your ass if you met guys like bish in real life you'd see just how much of a pussy they really are. He could be nice, but since he can't truly compete with the real world he virtue signals via the collective (since he doesn't believe in anything) to suggest that he's a "good" person and tries to do the same to get in girls pants, who ultimately can't stand him, anyway. They've been doing this stuff for years and it's quite clear it's all a scam for losers and the elites only allow it until it doesn't work anymore (coming soon to a theater near you).
Collectivism would be working for the group rather than working for yourself. I see selfishness peaking with the S&H unravelling, while working for the country is common in the crisis. It is cyclical. There are advantages and times for each, but the strong Ideals of America came in the crises... Kings and colonial imprialism were quashed in the Revolution. Slavery and preventing expansion were killed in the Civil War. The government regulating the economy and US involvement in containment came with FDR's time.

These are not scams and are being continued. Do you see us being treated as a colony, slavery returning, or a return to isolation? I see selfish gifts from the government to the elites as being typical of the unravelling selfishness. It has its time and purpose but I am disgusted by it.

And I believe in the above and more. The Republicans have been embodying obstructionism, in not solving problems. Covid, structural racism, infrastructure, the environment, they have found reasons to not solve the problems we are facing. Recognizing and solving such problems are what you do in a crisis. I can see people enthralled by racism. I can see wanting small government and low taxes that result from ignoring problems. But the problems are real and are going to be solved. As usual, the conservative memes of leaving the culture unchanged, the problems unsolved, are apt to fade and be shunned.
You are so blind it is sadly pathetic. After everything that has taken place over the last two years, you're still caught up in the stupid "Blue" vs. "Red" paradigm. Honestly, it just shows just how out of touch, brainwashed, and clueless you are. You show it nearly daily. You should really stop and evaluate what you *think* you know and open your eyes.
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

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Bob Butler
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Re: Collectivism

Post by Bob Butler »

thomasglee wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:49 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:09 am
Cool Breeze wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:21 pm
Those who rely on collectivism, that is, unhealthy central authoritarian collectivism, are losers. That's why they do it. You can bet your ass if you met guys like bish in real life you'd see just how much of a pussy they really are. He could be nice, but since he can't truly compete with the real world he virtue signals via the collective (since he doesn't believe in anything) to suggest that he's a "good" person and tries to do the same to get in girls pants, who ultimately can't stand him, anyway. They've been doing this stuff for years and it's quite clear it's all a scam for losers and the elites only allow it until it doesn't work anymore (coming soon to a theater near you).
Collectivism would be working for the group rather than working for yourself. I see selfishness peaking with the S&H unravelling, while working for the country is common in the crisis. It is cyclical. There are advantages and times for each, but the strong Ideals of America came in the crises... Kings and colonial imprialism were quashed in the Revolution. Slavery and preventing expansion were killed in the Civil War. The government regulating the economy and US involvement in containment came with FDR's time.

These are not scams and are being continued. Do you see us being treated as a colony, slavery returning, or a return to isolation? I see selfish gifts from the government to the elites as being typical of the unravelling selfishness. It has its time and purpose but I am disgusted by it.

And I believe in the above and more. The Republicans have been embodying obstructionism, in not solving problems. Covid, structural racism, infrastructure, the environment, they have found reasons to not solve the problems we are facing. Recognizing and solving such problems are what you do in a crisis. I can see people enthralled by racism. I can see wanting small government and low taxes that result from ignoring problems. But the problems are real and are going to be solved. As usual, the conservative memes of leaving the culture unchanged, the problems unsolved, are apt to fade and be shunned.
You are so blind it is sadly pathetic. After everything that has taken place over the last two years, you're still caught up in the stupid "Blue" vs. "Red" paradigm. Honestly, it just shows just how out of touch, brainwashed, and clueless you are. You show it nearly daily. You should really stop and evaluate what you *think* you know and open your eyes.
It is seeming like you and Cool Breeze will respond to logic, fact and structure with insults. That does nothing other than show you are locked into your own perspective and unable to respond with logic, fact and structure. Again, the prior crises destroyed kings, colonial imperialism, slavery and initiated the Industrial Revolution, regulation of the economy and containment of expansionist powers. These are still live policies to the point that going back on the older policies are unthinkable. Insulting me will not bring back kings and slaves. Red just means stay as we are, blue solve the problems we are facing. In a crisis, the resolution has always been to solve the problems.

I am very tempted to just repeat your paragraph and ask if it applies to you.

FullMoon
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Re: World Views

Post by FullMoon »

Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:52 am
FullMoon wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:48 pm
Thank you for replying and proving me correct.
You unequivocally have proven locked into your worldview and unable to comprehend outside of that.
Your knowledge of the conditions surrounding the pandemic display, without a doubt, that you only know what you've been told by politicians. And that you fervently believe it as well.
Well, somebody is correct. Once again you show no intelligence or understanding of other's worldviews. You show you did not understand how I change my view on reading an experienced doctor's opinion.
Ahhh yes. Name calling again, eh? Noted.
Good for you for taking the time to understand something which previously you had 'believed'. That's called science. Now try it on some of your other emotional pet peeves. You might be surprised when logic and reason are applied.

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Bob Butler
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Emotional Pet Peeves

Post by Bob Butler »

FullMoon wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:08 pm
Good for you for taking the time to understand something which previously you had 'believed'. That's called science. Now try it on some of your other emotional pet peeves. You might be surprised when logic and reason are applied.
Name a few of my alleged 'emotional pet peeves'. Not everyone thinks like you do.

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Bob Butler
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Premises

Post by Bob Butler »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:06 pm
Some people don't understand that you have to agree on premises before you can go anywhere with a dialogue. As such, when you deal with liars and the deluded, of course there is nowhere to go. But they are the products of the overlords, so it means little. Yet they think the bad guys out there aren't pulling their strings, which is funny. They love being lied to, so they eat it all up. Notice that also they have very little value for freedom. The little they have is for selfish degeneracy that they call freedom.
This seems more about my approach than John’s, so I am moving the dialog here.

I suppose you do have to agree on premises before you go anywhere, but these premises should not come out of thin air. You should be able to defend them. That you do not agree with someone else’s premises does not mean they are wrong, or that they are liars and deluded. I just demonstrate they cannot defend their premises. You seem unable to do that.

Let’s review what might be considered my premises. This is not to say the cannot be demonstrated historically.

Autocracies are bad. I’ll not defend democracies unless you think I have to.

Tribal Thinking is bad. You might use it to understand cultures where it is common, but advocating prejudice, oppression and violence in your own culture is bad. These are bugs, not features.

Selfishness is not ideal. Kennedy famously proclaimed, “Ask not what your country can do for you. As what you can do for your country.” I feel I am often dealing with the opposite. “Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country can do for you.” The first is what has come to be called collectivism lately. You do what is best for everyone, not entirely chase your selfish desires.

Collectiveness against selfishness is part of the cycles. Unravellings are selfish. In crises the country works together to solve specific problems. I would moderate the selfishness and go along with solving the problems. I don’t expect to kill the cycles. The tendency of the cycles to exist is not apt to be stopped entirely. But I do believe that problems have to be solved and selfishness can be taken to a big extreme.

Now I do believe that Autocracy, tribal thinking, and selfishness are real. That does not mean I am blind to or agree with or am happy to hear power being concentrated in the elites, prejudice, oppression, violence, and refusal to deal with problems that you don’t directly have.

On that last, some problems occur first and most in population dense and urban areas. To a great degree, rural areas do not want to deal with problems they don’t have or which are less severe. Thus they will use products produced in urban environments while refusing to deal with urban problems. This may not be evil in the sense of autocracy, tribal thinking and selfishness. It has to be dealt with, however. Problems should not be treated as non existent just because they are other people’s problems.

Freedom? Let’s look at Covid as an example. If your freedom means others must be killed, that is taking selfishness over collectivism too far.

Now those might be considered premises that we must understand both ways before we can achieve a meaningful dialogue. I have argued for them before. You have ignore or failed to understand them habitually. I doubt I could convince you to feel empathy towards others. Jesus’s commandment to love your neighbor doesn’t seem to hold much weight around here.

Now what similar premises would you hold?

FullMoon
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Re: Emotional Pet Peeves

Post by FullMoon »

Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:20 pm
FullMoon wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:08 pm
Good for you for taking the time to understand something which previously you had 'believed'. That's called science. Now try it on some of your other emotional pet peeves. You might be surprised when logic and reason are applied.
Name a few of my alleged 'emotional pet peeves'. Not everyone thinks like you do.
I should've said emotional rants. Tame your emotions before commentary. If you want to be seriously considered. And without insults and a bias towards the audience. You don't know what kind of people who might read your posts. How can you possibly know the types of people who read this blog? We're all swept up into heightened emotions. For this is the crisis in full swing and it's scary. Almost existentially scary. History is only fun in hindsight.

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Bob Butler
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Re: Emotional Pet Peeves

Post by Bob Butler »

FullMoon wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:40 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:20 pm
FullMoon wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:08 pm
Good for you for taking the time to understand something which previously you had 'believed'. That's called science. Now try it on some of your other emotional pet peeves. You might be surprised when logic and reason are applied.
Name a few of my alleged 'emotional pet peeves'. Not everyone thinks like you do.
I should've said emotional rants. Tame your emotions before commentary. If you want to be seriously considered. And without insults and a bias towards the audience. You don't know what kind of people who might read your posts. How can you possibly know the types of people who read this blog? We're all swept up into heightened emotions. For this is the crisis in full swing and it's scary. Almost existentially scary. History is only fun in hindsight.
A crisis is not supposed to be fun. You didn't provide my alleged 'emotion pet peeves'. The audience partially believes in prejudice, violence and oppression, at least many posters. I know this by reading their posts, or the premises around which you base your perceptions of history and the current problem. You may be correct that without understanding such basic assumptions little dialogue would be possible. Try stating yours instead of insulting mine if you could. There is more to history and crisis than insulting and misunderstanding in order to keep your worldview. All you posts are much more into the emotional and insulting aspect, not into fact, logic and structure at all. Try taking history seriously.

Cool Breeze
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Re: Premises

Post by Cool Breeze »

Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:32 pm
Freedom? Let’s look at Covid as an example. If your freedom means others must be killed, that is taking selfishness over collectivism too far.
A classic example of delusion, both with premise and language. Totally irresponsible and impossible to dialogue with.

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Bob Butler
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Totally Irresponsible

Post by Bob Butler »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:10 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:32 pm
Freedom? Let’s look at Covid as an example. If your freedom means others must be killed, that is taking selfishness over collectivism too far.
A classic example of delusion, both with premise and language. Totally irresponsible and impossible to dialogue with.
True. Covid is and has been causing death. Red reluctance to implement the cure is resulting death in the anti vac crowd and in the general population. This is impossible to dialogue with. Cool Breeze cannot argue about it. You don't make it vanish by closing one's eyes and wishful thinking. It is totally irresponsible, but not the way Cool Breeze believes. Mass murder on a grand scale is not a political game.

thomasglee
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Re: Totally Irresponsible

Post by thomasglee »

Bob Butler wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:39 am
Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:10 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:32 pm
Freedom? Let’s look at Covid as an example. If your freedom means others must be killed, that is taking selfishness over collectivism too far.
A classic example of delusion, both with premise and language. Totally irresponsible and impossible to dialogue with.
True. Covid is and has been causing death. Red reluctance to implement the cure is resulting death in the anti vac crowd and in the general population. This is impossible to dialogue with. Cool Breeze cannot argue about it. You don't make it vanish by closing one's eyes and wishful thinking. It is totally irresponsible, but not the way Cool Breeze believes. Mass murder on a grand scale is not a political game.
Even the Vax makers don't call it a cure, but a therapeutic. Ivermectin, and other remedies, combined with natural immunity, are much better "cures".
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

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