Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

[Bob Butler]

Newly disclosed messages and testimony from some of the biggest stars and most senior executives at Fox News revealed that they privately expressed disbelief about President Donald J. Trump’s false claims that the 2020 election was stolen from him, even though the network continued to promote many of those lies on the air.

The hosts Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham, as well as others at the company, repeatedly insulted and mocked Trump advisers, including Sidney Powell and Rudolph W. Giuliani, in text messages with each other in the weeks after the election, according to a legal filing on Thursday by Dominion Voting Systems. Dominion is suing Fox for defamation in a case that poses considerable financial and reputational risk for the country’s most-watched cable news network.

“Sidney Powell is lying by the way. I caught her. It’s insane,” Mr. Carlson wrote to Ms. Ingraham on Nov. 18, 2020.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/busi ... wsuit.html

It took me about a minute to find this by googling 'Fox Lies'. That is more on why the $757 Million settlement was offered. They had no possible real defense. Of course your mindset requires you to deny it happened.

[Bob Butler]

Bob, I agree with a lot of what you say, except when you try to impose your values on preborn humans. You are fine with fining and imprisoning people who kill a preborn bald eagle or sea turtle (egg), but killing a preborn baby is just fine.

A fetus is just not self aware, does not have anything close to the typical animal degree of working with the environment. The distinction is trying to preserve a sentient being and trying to preserve something that might one day develop sentience. I choose the former. In choosing to value a fetus over a meat animal, you just lose me.

[jdcpapa]

Newly disclosed messages and testimony from some of the biggest stars and most senior executives at Fox News revealed that they privately expressed disbelief about President Donald J. Trump’s false claims that the 2020 election was stolen from him, even though the network continued to promote many of those lies on the air.

The hosts Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham, as well as others at the company, repeatedly insulted and mocked Trump advisers, including Sidney Powell and Rudolph W. Giuliani, in text messages with each other in the weeks after the election, according to a legal filing on Thursday by Dominion Voting Systems. Dominion is suing Fox for defamation in a case that poses considerable financial and reputational risk for the country’s most-watched cable news network.

“Sidney Powell is lying by the way. I caught her. It’s insane,” Mr. Carlson wrote to Ms. Ingraham on Nov. 18, 2020.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/busi ... wsuit.html

It took me about a minute to find this by googling 'Fox Lies'. That is more on why the $757 Million settlement was offered. They had no possible real defense. Of course your mindset requires you to deny it happened.

Fox news settled the suit brought against them by Dominion for defamation. What it tells me is that Dominion had a strong enough case to cause counsel for Fox to recommend a settlement. You have cited two sources neither of which support your claim that Murdoch admitted to lying. It matters not if he lied. What matters is if you can support your allegation that he lied; and you cannot.

[Bob Butler]

Fox news settled the suit brought against them by Dominion for defamation. What it tells me is that Dominion had a strong enough case to cause counsel for Fox to recommend a settlement. You have cited two sources neither of which support your claim that Murdoch admitted to lying. It matters not if he lied. What matters is if you can support your allegation that he lied; and you cannot.

What matters is the division in the country. Trump told his Big Lie. Fox News in spite of not believing a word of it, helped Trump spread it. The entire conservative perspective resulted. You can weasel word around it. The angle you are defending and projecting is still a lie.

[jdcpapa]

Fox news settled the suit brought against them by Dominion for defamation. What it tells me is that Dominion had a strong enough case to cause counsel for Fox to recommend a settlement. You have cited two sources neither of which support your claim that Murdoch admitted to lying. It matters not if he lied. What matters is if you can support your allegation that he lied; and you cannot.

What matters is the division in the country. Trump told his Big Lie. Fox News in spite of not believing a word of it, helped Trump spread it. The entire conservative perspective resulted. You can weasel word around it. The angle you are defending and projecting is still a lie.

Trump believes Biden is an illegitimate president. Murdoch stated under oath that Fox did not embrace the idea of election fraud but some of its commentators endorsed the idea. Murdoch confirmed the suggestion that Fox was "trying to straddle the line between spewing conspiracy theories on the one hand, yet calling out the fact that they are false on the other".

Fox did not lie. Some of the guests interviewed by the subject commentators were accused of lying. Some of Fox's commentators gave the "controversial guests" a "soapbox" to present their case pursuant to the 1st amendment of the constitution. You provided the cites.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/washi ... d/1147908/


The (liberal) Washington Post poll reflects the "mindset" of the country with regard to the illegitimate election of Biden. The initial poll was taken in mid December of 2021 and again during the same timeframe in 2023.

In 2021, 61% of republicans, 28% of independents, and 6% of democrats said they believe Biden was not elected legitimately. The 2023 poll is up from 2021, 69% of republicans 34% of independents, and 9% of democrats said they believe Biden was not elected legitimately.

What could have happened to cause a 17% (3% democrats) increase in Americans that believe Trump?

[Bob Butler]

Trump believes Biden is an illegitimate president.

Trump was told many times that there was no fraud. Heck, even the guy he hired to confirm the fraud said there was none. If you are going to open your post with a lie, I'm not gong to be able to argue with a serial lear.

[jdcpapa]

Trump believes Biden is an illegitimate president.

Trump was told many times that there was no fraud. Heck, even the guy he hired to confirm the fraud said there was none. If you are going to open your post with a lie, I'm not gong to be able to argue with a serial lear.

Do you have any evidence that Trump believes Biden was elected legitimately? Do you have any evidence that he was convinced by others? Prove it. We know from the Washington Post poll that about 37% of Americans (including dems) think Biden was not elected legitimately. The poll indicates that 52% of republicans and independents think Biden was not elected legitimately.

You should be ashamed of yourself for falsely accusing me of lying. Ah, but alas! You have no shame. You certainly have no evidence to support your baseless allegation.

[Bob Butler]

You should be ashamed of yourself for falsely accusing me of lying. Ah, but alas! You have no shame. You certainly have no evidence to support your baseless allegation.

https://www.wsj.com/video/can-you-belie ... 8442AD504F

If you were at all familiar with the evidence, you would know the evidence exists. As is, in order to defend your worldview, you will lie without bothering to learn the evidence.

[jdcpapa]

You should be ashamed of yourself for falsely accusing me of lying. Ah, but alas! You have no shame. You certainly have no evidence to support your baseless allegation.

https://www.wsj.com/video/can-you-belie ... 8442AD504F

If you were at all familiar with the evidence, you would know the evidence exists. As is, in order to defend your worldview, you will lie without bothering to learn the evidence.

I asked you to provide evidence that Trump believes Biden was elected legitimately and evidence that he was convinced by others? In your cite, the testimony is that Trump was in disbelief over his loss to Biden and others convinced him of his loss. There is no testimony specific to the legitimacy of the election in your cite. There is no testimony specific to Trump's belief that Biden is a legitimate president.

[Bob Butler]

You should be ashamed of yourself for falsely accusing me of lying. Ah, but alas! You have no shame. You certainly have no evidence to support your baseless allegation.

https://www.wsj.com/video/can-you-belie ... 8442AD504F

If you were at all familiar with the evidence, you would know the evidence exists. As is, in order to defend your worldview, you will lie without bothering to learn the evidence.

I asked you to provide evidence that Trump believes Biden was elected legitimately and evidence that he was convinced by others? In your cite, the testimony is that Trump was in disbelief over his loss to Biden and others convinced him of his loss. There is no testimony specific to the legitimacy of the election in your cite. There is no testimony specific to Trump's belief that Biden is a legitimate president.

‘Can You Believe I Lost to This Effing Guy?’ Trump Knew Biden Won, Aides Testify

Trump in private stated he lost. Period. I don't know what convinced him, but he was convinced. Your mindset requires you to try to weasel word around the fact. You can't.