Strauss-Howe Fourth Turning discussions
Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:00 am
Post here to discuss the original Fourth Turning theory by
Neil Howe and William Strauss
Neil Howe and William Strauss
Generational theory, international history and current events
https://gdxforum.com/forum/
Your theory has nothing to do with generational theory or withBob Butler wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:52 pm> I have been a regular poster on too many T4T sites. The last was
> on MyBB, and is dying of a missing moderator and excessive
> spam. This section of the Generational Dynamics Forum is intended
> in part to fill that lack.
> I was described by John as a ‘troll’. That is to say we have had
> our disagreements. I suppose I should outline them here.
I do include Turnings in my theory, except where it is validly contradicted by Ages or the WEIRD perspective or one of the other ways of looking at history. For example, in an unraveling there is a major debate and stalemate between the older values and the new where it becomes increasingly clear that something has to give. The conservatives - whether it be about kings, slaves, dictators, the government regulating the economy, systematic racism or global warming - are reluctant to meet the new problem. As a result the problem in question gets worse. By the time the crisis comes along, the problem is in your face bad enough that the old values have to go, the crisis problems have to be dealt with. Government becomes for a time more powerful and focused, though this fades ever more in the next three turnings. This leaves the believers in the old values sort of out of luck. The rest of the country will move on.
See? It is you who cannot handle and ignore the facts and instead resort to personal criticisms. True, I have created a new slants on turnings, but they are not much different from S&H than you have gone. Nukes, proxy wars and insurgencies have an effect. It is I that go with facts, you that go with personal attacks and insults. Most of that seems t be that you cannot respond to the flaws of your thinking.
Oh, I do have some understanding of the Republicans. They have always been the party of the elites. They switched from allying with the abolitions to the KKK, and from isolation to being strong on defense, but they have always been pro elite. However, there are not enough elites to vote and gain power, so they have to pick up populist issues to fill out their platform. There are valid reasons for many conservative ideas. People spread out have to learn to be more independent, while those living close together often cooperate and specialize. Problems are less in rural areas, so they are less inclined to solve them. Small government and low taxes is a perpetual and valid concern, even if they can be taken beyond a point of diminishing returns.JCP wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:21 amSaid the pot to the kettle...Bob Butler wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:01 pmThis is an example of your ideological bias. Biden has brought in experts in the field they are supposed to oversee, as opposed to Trump who appointed by nepotism and loyalty. If you don't make an honest attempt to understand the opposition, which generally has valid reasons why they believe as they do, you will convince only those who are already bought into your perspective.
We will see who is in court more after January 20th. I tend to agree the younger generation should rise on their merits rather than riding coat tails, but as long as no attempt is made to make nepotism illegal, what can you do?John wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:35 pmAs for nepotism, Trump's children went to the Mideast and negotiated
widely heralded peace agreements between Israel with UAE, Bahrain, Sudan and Algeria. Biden's children went to Ukraine and China and
traded and used influence-peddling to pocket millions of dollars. Furthermore, Biden's son Hunter is deeply embroiled in a criminal investigation for influence peddling, money laundering and tax evasion. That's a big contrast with Trump's children.
I guess you are not alone. During the primaries leading up to the 2016 election, a lot of Republicans said bad things about Trump. The difference was that once the Republican base was fixated on Trump, the establishment and many ideologues fell into line as enablers. I guess my hold on power (such as it laughingly is) doesn't depend on rural voters, so I could be critical straight through. His recent pardons of co conspirators and war criminals and his dragging his feet on transition of power have not made me change my opinion of him.John wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:35 pmWhen Trump began running for president, I had no respect for him, and I criticized him and mocked him. Trump earned my respect. Biden has been cowering in his basement for a year and covering up his son's crimes. The only ideological bias is by people who give Biden a pass no matter how pathetic and incompetent he appears. Biden has not earned my respect. When he does, I'll let you know.
Republicans are unfortunately allied with the KKK and Neo Nazi. Racism is one of the crisis issues if you note the protests associated with Black Lives Matter this last summer, the congressional response of studying the problem but not doing anything about it. Police excessive violence and other structural racist acts are part of the crisis now. Racism is one of those unspoken populist issues which attracts voters to the Republican party, but it does not effect all members of the party. If you are unaware of it, you are unaware of an important part of the crisis, of moving the culture further away from the class oriented Agricultural Age.John wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:57 amTwo posts, one of which claimed without evidence that Republicans are racist and the other of which was just a personal attack on me, have
been moved to the "Strauss-Howe Fourth Turning discussions" thread, where they are more appropriate.
The purpose of this "Generational Dynamics World View News" thread is to discuss current events and history from the point of view of
Generational Dynamics. As always, I will be the final decider whether a particular post belongs in this thread or elsewhere. In particular, things like racism and violence will not be tolerated.
Thank you for posting this. This explains why you hate Trump so much,pbrower2a wrote: > By the way -- I gave up completely on Donald Trump when he mocked
> the handicapped. I remember hearing jokes about the handicapped
> (except for moron jokes) from people my age when I was about ten
> years old. Most people outgrow such garbage (and it really is
> cruel) when they are about ten years old. Around that age, one
> either finds those repugnant or someone is able to explain why you
> don't do them (Dad tells you that the fellow in a wheelchair is a
> disabled veteran who served his country heroically, and there but
> for the Grace of God go you ten years from now if we get into a
> war with the Soviet Union. I may judge harshly people who hurt
> themselves through their own follies such as drugs, alcoholism,
> extreme obesity, and criminal behaviors.. but I fault nobody who
> did nothing to fault himself.
> I have a neurological disorder that makes me little more than my
> intellect. It has messed me up as can a drug or alcohol habit
> except to not put my life at risk. No, I'm not crazy; I simply
> can't enjoy what many other people enjoy. I could never attend a
> rock concert. Yes, it is genetic. I got a double dose, as my late
> parents both showed signs of being on the autistic spectrum, and
> it is probably a good thing that I never had children; they would
> be at a high risk of institutionalization.
Of course. Isn’t that what internet warriors do? You generalize about both what your group believes and the opposition, often demonizing the opposition.Cool Breeze wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:50 pmOf course, you caught him again projecting what he does on other people. These people live in clown world.