Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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Bob Butler
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Enough

Post by Bob Butler »

Picked up a copy if Cassidy Hutchinson's Enough. Read all night, slept in the morning. She seems to value truth over loyalty, country over party and service over greed. Convincing.

In Strauss and Howe terminology, two of the things we are supposed to be looking for are a grey champion, and new values which solve the crisis problems and are hammered home in the high. I have been searching for these things, and not been able to convincingly find them.

To quote Cassidy, "Bingo!"

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...not like the other?

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Monday night, Rachel Maddow led her program with an “One of these things is not like the other” segment, suggesting too many pundits are too lazy in saying the two parties are similar to each other. For example, one party’s former president is spending his time on trial, while the other has a former president (Carter) trying to eradicate guinea worm disease. One comparison was between a Biden commercial suggesting he was willing to work bipartisan with most anybody, while the Republicans would remove their own speaker for daring to work with the opposition.

This is fine as far as it goes, but leaves the question as to who Biden is being bipartisan with? This implies there are a lot of moderate Republicans who are much more willing to work across the aisle than Rachel is willing to admit. I suspect the gap between the MAGA / Trump faction and the moderate old style Republicans is as large or larger than the gap between the latter and the Democrats.

But that still doesn’t releive the threat of being knocked out in a primary. If a Republican doesn’t back Trump, he is gone. That remains the big problem.

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The Big Picture

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Cool Breeze wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:23 pm
It is amusing to me that this forum has now been fully confounded into a place where there is not a complete or cohesive thesis of what's actually going on in the world. That is largely because the older posters here can't come clean about what the USA has done for years (since WWII) in a slowly controlled fashion. That is, it has been controlled, like most countries, by people who have nothing to do with "democracy" (as if this thing matters). Or if they do, they use the foolish normies to do their bidding, and these fools haven't figured it out yet.

I have tried to tell so many here over the years just how divided and schizophrenic their minds are. One thing we can agree on, though, is that for now it's better to be living in America than a lot of these other places. That doesn't mean you aren't a slave, it just means that for now you're not in a desperate or stressful/suffering situation. For now, since I can tell you that the plan is for that to be ending much sooner than anyone wants to admit or realize.
I can agree that America has gone furthest away from the Agricultural Age pattern which so many countries still at least partially follow, notably with autocratic governments. That is greatly because of prior crises we have faced. The English Civil War focused the culture on democracy and industry. The American Revolution stressed independence, broke nobility, and broke colonial rule. The Civil War broke slavery. The Great Depression implemented government regulation of the economy. World War II resulted in containment of autocratic attempts to expand.

The results of these crises put America ahead of many other places, introduced solid values. If as Cool Breeze suggests America has a solid culture, these crises reflect how and why we became superior.

It still left stuff not done. The white supremacists are still pushing prejudice and their own religious superstitions. The rich still have too much influence on government. If minorities are no longer enslaved they still have their cultures suppressed. We still have further to go on protecting the environment and climate change. Some of it will be addressed this crisis, and there will be at least one more such crisis.

But each crisis, each set of values shifts, was a headache. As the old Chinese curse suggests, these were interesting times. There were always some who didn’t want to solve what others saw as problems. In other words, those that wanted progress had to fight conservatives. Those who thought the new values worth introducing had to destroy the old values.

Many other cultures have yet to hit problems we have already solved. In general, some autocratic governments lack the sort of feedback of the people give to the government. Many autocratic leaders still believe conflict advantageous, run corrupt regimes, and surround themselves with yes men. They wallow in the instinct that one should oppress, hate and kill those who are different.

So in many ways I agree with Cool Breeze. He just hasn’t looked carefully enough at history to identify in what ways we are superior and what conflicts were won in order to introduce the values which made us superior.

At this point, though, it almost seems the progressives are not so much the victors. Putin’s failed invasion, Xi’s economic failures, Trump’s legal woes, the endless Republican attempts to find a speaker, and Hamas’ hate have made them more the victim of their own plots than anything truly innovative on the part of the progressives. Some of the current problems are fraught and difficult enough, but don’t require spanking new values.

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Biden

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For a while Biden has been very quietly doing his job, but not going anywhere near Washington, Lincoln's or FDR prominence in their respective crises. Proclaiming him gray champion seemed absurd. With his recent speech, maybe...

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Blue Ripple?

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In odd numbered years, there are relatively few elections. It seems silly to proclaim a blue wave. Still, the abortion issue seems dominant and the Democrats did well. There seems to be a large gap between the polls and the actual elections. That might be worth keeping an eye on. Still, as long as the Republicans stick with abortion, free access to assault weapons, gerrymandering, and purging minority voters, they seem to be in trouble. They are needing more and more manipulation to keep some semblance of control. It has become noticeable.

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Of for and by the People...

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Guuues wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:25 am
Imagine the time and energy and happenstance that it takes to build a country, and how easily and cheaply and recently that was lost.

I miss America already.
If you are speaking of Hamas and Gaza, if you let a racist terrorist movement assume control of the government, of maintaining rule of law, that’s what happens. They seemed to count the destruction of Israel as more important than protecting the people of Gaza. Israel seems to count the destruction of Hamas as more important than protecting the people of Gaza. If those are the dominant forces of the region, the country of Gaza never existed.

America? With white supremacy and the ability of the religious fanatics to impose their values on others being confronted, the bigots and religious conservatives are going to try to make a fuss. Following the first black president, we had Trump siding with the traditional religious, racial and cultural oppression, leaning towards an autocratic fascist attitude. If these are part of America, it is time for them to be squished.

It is a matter of choosing loyalty to old autocratic values over loving your neighbor. If you choose hate over love, that is what happens in a crisis. Your values collapse. Forbid the teaching of black culture rather than create sanctuary cities? Fight the will of the people in favor of medieval superstition? Support the selling of weapons of war to spree killers? New values which solve problems does involve killing some old values. There is much that is right in America, a need for conservatives to preserve what should be. Still, crises are about solving problems, not perpetuating them.

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Israel sending the wrong message...

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Jabberwocky South wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:23 am
And a leaked call today from the ADL president expressed deep alarm at the Jews loss of support across the board (politically and generationally). He blamed it on Tik Tok :roll:

The world has turned upside down since October 7th. Unreal.
I have not paid a lot or attention to Israel, but their far right leader might not have shown sufficient concern for Palestinian lives. After trying to limit the Israeli court system, I have two reasons to hold him suspect. Now that Israel has infantry at close range to Hamas they have the opportunity to limit the killing of civilians, but I suspect from their indiscriminate arial bombing that hurting Hamas is a higher by far priority than protecting Palestinians. Anyway, I hope the Israeli people remove him from power after this settles.

I certainly wouldn't blame Tik Tok.

To the extent the instinct to hate, oppress and kill the different has eaten the Israeli high command, I'd reject it. As I've said before, acknowledge the instinct exists, but do not encourage it in one's own culture. Mind you, I'm not against the Jewish religion or people, but I think the Israeli government worthy of criticism? Israel has a justified reaction of hatred for what Hamas did, but much of the rest of the world sees the Israeli response as similar to Hamas's and reprehensible.

The Old Testament and the New have different themes. The Jews of ancient times were sometimes slaves and sometimes conquerers. The love thy neighbor message of the New Testament is not the same. The Father is not the Son. The Bible can be used to encourage so many divergent messages. I would still encourage love over hate. I would still distrust a right wing government. I still do not think war cost effective. Distrusting a race or a religion doesn't seem proper though, even if a culture can be shaped and focused by either.

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Polyticks and Rhyme

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guest wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:13 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2023 9:08 am
Ppx wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:33 am
As the globalist regime and its toadies casts scorn at the Irish people for standing up for themselves and their children, and as many Irish men and women smear and denounce their countrymen in Dublin, remember that the 1916 rebels who fought for freedom and survival were also met with similar scorn.

History is rhyming.
Powerful countries often attempt to conquer, control and exploit weaker territories. A mutual dislike is apt to result. Yes, this tendency would have history rhyming a lot.

Israel and Gaza are a bit off that norm. Both Jews and Palestinians believe they held the territories involved for thousands of years, which justifies thousands more. If you hold territory and hate important, you get the same sort of mess.
What are you on about?
Originally when I set up the Polyticks perspective (many blood sucking vermin), there were four elements: turnings, ages, civilizations and evolutionary biology. That last focuses on basic instincts of how man behaves. In this case, we are dealing with territory and the Generational Dynamics instinct to hate, oppress and kill the different. A culture attempts to own a territory and either hold it or fight to expand it, to take over someone else’s territory. Read up on how lion prides and wolf packs have assimilated the territorial instinct, and assume man is no different.

As this conflict is joined, mutual hatred and violence results. Turnings, ages and civilization are only patterns helping you to understand how the biology manifests. It was cost effective in the hunter gatherer and agricultural ages. Cultures that featured organized violence throve. It has become less advantageous in the industrial and information ages, but the autocrats haven’t figured it out yet. Old habits die hard.

Whether you are dealing with Ireland, Gaza, Ukraine, Formosa, or the Axis, territory and hate rhymes. The prejudice against minorities in the US and Europe reflects this too. History is absolutely full of this dynamic. If you choose to hate the different over loving your neighbor, the headaches will continue. It was and remains instinctive. Modern attempts to sit on it have been only partially successful.

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Re: The Conservative Wilderness

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Bob Butler wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:01 pm
Bullshit text removed by the Moderator.
After that abortion squabble, I tried to lie low for a time, to avoid other than brief comments on this thread. (Originally posed in John's main thread.) To my amusement, others took my place as most censored. Yet others made up false and derogatory imaginations of what my positions might be, and referred to me by name. If you want me away from a thread, that is not the way to do it.

The proper response seemed to be an equally ugly but true impression of the conservative position. It was answered by an expletive and censorship. The points to be pressed include…

The Big Lie is a big lie, by something like 60 court cases to 1.

Trump is more criminal than Biden, by something like 91 indictments to zero accusations.

Many conservatives have taken racist stances, outlawing the teaching of histories and acting against various minorities the including LBGQ community, the Black Lives Matter community and latinos.

Many religious communities opposing decades respected rights are following the religious superstitions of medieval times and trying to force them on others.

Now the original Conservative Wilderness note did not express this politely, any more that my supposed positions were polite. Well, perhaps I shouldn’t have complimented John on so accurately repeating the lies. Still, it was truth censored. Has it become improper to state the obvious? Would anyone care to respond to issues with logic and fact rather than a wrinkle on the witch analogy and censorship? Are conservative opinions so weak that censorship is the only way to defend them?

I’m also getting a little curious about the other posts censored.

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Different Neighbors

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One of the central foci of Generational Dynamics is that humans will hate, oppress and/or kill the different. One of the basic instincts of many species is territory. You claim it, protect it, and expand it. These two principle seem very related. They are the basis for war. You go after those who are different, those who have coveted territory.

In humans there seems to be an opposite. Those like you, with the same culture, living in the same territory, are helped. As the Christians say, love thy neighbor. Thus, folks join together, assist each other, and too often…. Well, see the above paragraph. Neighbors unite and confront the different.

Internationally, this well summarizes the many flashpoints of the crisis. This is going on in Ukraine, Gaza, Israel, Formosa, and the South China Sea, among other places. If you want to understand the current crisis, look at it as basic biology. The justification is that war is cost effective. Indeed, over the long human history it has been. Cultures which pressed their neighbors tended to get the advantage over those who pressed less. There is a reason these instincts evolved.

Domestically, the United States tends to exercise these instincts retail, not wholesale. We hold lynchings and spree killings rather than build gas chambers or instigate mass killings. Still, there is no doubt of perceived white supremacy. Cultures are forced onto others or suppressed. Blacks, latinos, and LGBQ people have been among others hit this time around. Those who live elsewhere or live differently are targets.

It is not clear that the aggressive instincts create an environment which people want to share. As much as the violent abrasive instincts must be admitted to exist and evolved for a reason, the desire to subdue them is understandable too. You just have to imagine other cultures being imposed on you.

If possible. Dream on.

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