Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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Bob Butler
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Crisis Issues

Post by Bob Butler »

In the abortion thread, we got off on a tangent of dislike for the Pope in specific and priests in particular. If you have unmarried priests, can priestly child abuse be far behind? This is a flaw in the culture, if you count the church as part of the culture. Normally this would be a progressive thing. If we see a flaw, we want to fix it. That is what progressives do. Should I make those grumbling honorary progressives? Can I at least complement folks on their ability to see this particular flaw? I would ask that they understand progressives as feeling the same way about other flaws.

At best, conservatives try to preserve what is best in a culture. Progressives try to fix what is broken. Any given crisis can fix only a few flaws, so the progressives choose the most blatant ones. Conservatives often consider the flaws acceptable, or at worst they profit off them. If you work for the king, noble privilege seems just fine. If you own slaves, slavery is a good thing. If you are a white supremacist, there is no need to ‘fix’ prejudice. Generally, rural populations want less change - see fewer flaws - than urban ones. The pace is slower, the population density less.

Ideally there would be a place for both conservatives and progressives, if we could only agree on what 'flaws' need to be ‘fixed.’ Many conservatives adopt the progressive fixes of earlier crises. Independence and equality were accepted after the Revolution. Freedom after the US Civil War. Regulation of the economy and containment after FDR’s time. Fine. These are all America growing.

Thing is, I see the crisis issues this time as including prejudice, forcing religious doctrine on non believers, elite influence on the government, maintaining containment, putting lives ahead of economics with regard to Covid, maintaining democracy and presidential criminals. This is an unusually large number of issues. Perhaps each is less earthshaking than usual. Yet, each was earthshaking at one particular time, as Covid was peaking, or the BLM protests were loudest.

Anyone else see the crisis issue list differently? Are any of the issues I see as hot unimportant to you, not ranking as among the greatest issues of their time and generating large support and controversy?

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Tom Mazanec
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Tom Mazanec »

If you have unmarried priests, can priestly child abuse be far behind?
Public School Teachers 100 Times More Likely To Abuse Kids Than Catholic Priests
New data shows that teachers are more likely to abuse kids than Catholic Priests, shining light on a disturbing growing trend in public schools.
By JESSICA MARIE BAUMGARTNER | PUBLISHED 10 MONTHS AGO
https://go2tutors.com/teachers-more-likely-abuse-kids/
SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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Bob Butler
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Teacher Abuse

Post by Bob Butler »

Tom Mazanec wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:12 am
If you have unmarried priests, can priestly child abuse be far behind?
Public School Teachers 100 Times More Likely To Abuse Kids Than Catholic Priests
New data shows that teachers are more likely to abuse kids than Catholic Priests, shining light on a disturbing growing trend in public schools.
By JESSICA MARIE BAUMGARTNER | PUBLISHED 10 MONTHS AGO
https://go2tutors.com/teachers-more-likely-abuse-kids/
A flaw, definitely. Not a crisis issue. Not yet raising a great ruckus, an insistence on change. I don't really see this as stirring things up right away? We have enough crisis issues? I suspect we are on overdose?

I also note the 'abuse' includes teaching about masturbation and including books with sexual overtones in libraries. This is not the personal involvement that I think priests were often confronted with. I'd want to know a bit more about what the author considers abuse. It seems like she considers any sort of education involving sex as considered abuse, a standard which some might consider questionable.

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Re: Obsolete worldviews believed

Post by John »

Tuesday, January 17th, 2023


Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:02 am
John

The January 6 Committee came up with a considerable list of crimes. Trump was part of the fake elector scheme, a felony. There was the phone call where he tried to change votes in Georgia and elsewhere, again felony. There was the Tax Fraud in New York which recently convicted the corporation. The Impeachments were silly. They should have known the Republican Senate members would ignore their oaths of office. Leave alone organizing the insurrection. I could go on, but that is enough.

Now this is common knowledge by anyone who has followed the news recently. Do you think your contradicting common knowledge gets you a favorable reputation? I acknowledge your conservative bias, but throw Generational Dynamics away by making this biased opinion obvious? You wonder why you aren’t taken seriously?
first off, we now know from the Twitter files, from the contents of Hunter's laptop, from, FBI whistleblowers, and most recently from the stonewalling by the Biden administration of the classified documents situation, that the Biden administration did indeed rig the 2020 election, and may also have rigged the 2022 election. we also know that the Biden family is a corrupt criminal organization from top to bottom,
for massive influence pedaling, selling influence to China, Russia, iran, and Ukraine for tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, and then laundering that money through various crony organizations.

there was no way that the things you listed are crimes by Trump. The third was a tax issue with his corporation, not with him, and the first two are not crimes because, if they were, the committee would have issued criminal referrals. Trump and Rudy Giuliani were having conversations with legislators in various swing states about appointing alternate electors. All they were doing is talking. and as much as Democrats would like to revoke the first amendment for Republicans, it is no felony or any kind of crime for people to be talking. The same is true for the Georgia situation.
what Trump was doing may have been stupid and delusional, but it was only talking, and it was not a crime.

there's another reason why the Democrats will not attempt to prosecute Trump for a crime. if they tried, then there would be discovery and a trial, and the Republicans would be able to start calling witnesses from the FBI and the Biden administration to expose their crimes. for example, it's known from whistleblowers that there were about 30 FBI agents in the crowd on January 6th, provoking the crowd to enter the capital building. it's easy to tell who these people were, because they weren't arrested and thrown into jail for a year without a trial, as happened to the Trump supporters. once that door was opened, the Republicans could then subpoena a number of others in the Biden administration. The investigative committees in the house of representatives would then subpoena the same witnesses, and the entire Biden criminal organization would be exposed. and so, Trump will never be actually charged with the imaginary crimes that you and the Democrats are you and the Democrats are referencing.

so once again, Trump has committed no crimes, and will not be prosecuted even for the imaginary crimes that you and the January 6th committee of Trump hating politicians come up with.

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Re: Obsolete worldviews believed

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:13 pm
so once again, Trump has committed no crimes, and will not be prosecuted even for the imaginary crimes that you and the January 6th committee of Trump hating politicians come up with.
Well, an easy enough prediction to judge. We'll see how true it is.

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Worldviews

Post by Bob Butler »

Each crisis has a completely different pair of worldviews, conservative and progressive. The conservative one would continue things as they are, the progressive would fix specific problems. The conservative would suggest that because something always had been so, it always would be. The progressives would want to apply fixes anyway.

Conserving the best of America or making progress are not necessarily at odds. They become so when there is disagreement whether something is a feature to be preserved, or a flaw to be fixed. The worldviews which support one or the other conflict badly. Could one really believe in noble privilege, slavery, or allowing autocratic conquests? Values imposed by one crisis are inevitably accepted in the next. But still, they are adhered to and absolutely believed during the crisis itself.

Which leaves me wondering what beliefs will be rejected and left behind as this crisis ends? Denying elections without evidence but with violence? Criminals in high office? Encouraging a lack of precautions during a pandemic? Prejudice? Enforcing religious doctrines with law? Law officers murdering out of prejudice? Autocratic conquest again? Gerrymandering and similar ways of manipulating votes?

And as in prior crises, the conservative forces find ways to believe in what others consider flaws. They find ways to justify these things or deny they are happening.

When must they abandon their fraudulent beliefs? I keep waiting for John to admit that the Big Lie is a big lie. I have always figured a few more months would make the obvious obvious. But no, in a crisis the conservative believers will find a way to believe.

I have predicted three collapses. Ukraine will recover its territory. Putin will lose the presidency of Russia. Xi will lose leadership of the CCP as the only Chinese party due to his poor decisions. Trump will behind bars and no longer have influence over the Republican Party. In addition, most of the features / flaws mentioned above will be significantly addressed, if they already have not been. Have any law enforcement officers committed unjustified violence against minorities recently? Or seemingly they have left violence to the election deniers with failed campaigns for election, or the spree killers going into minority space with assault weapons.

Again, the conservatives have always lost in the American crises. When will they be forced to change their worldviews? Will they be forced to change their worldviews? Is it possible to change a worldview without marching to the sea or setting off a few nukes? To date, It seems generally impossible.

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Police violence against minorities.

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:38 pm
Friday, January 27, 2023

Image

A poster by the Democrats' terrorist militia Antifa, calling for violent riots in NYC
because of the release of the bodycam video of the police killing of Tyre Nichols in Memphis.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... riots.html

Protesters in Memphis shut down highways and chant 'say his name - Tyre Nichols' as demonstrations take place in NYC, DC and Atlanta - and Antifa calls for activists to 'BURN IT ALL DOWN' after bodycam release
There is a culture, a worldview, that law enforcement is and ought to be free to use illegal violence against minorities. One line stood out in the coverage of Tyre Nicols’s murder. ‘You cannot diversify evil.’ Inserting minorities in a flawed policing environment just corrupts the minorities. The evil remains.

There was another theme that with black police chief, prosecutor and mayor, there were rapid firings, release of video and prosecution. White authorities in prior incidents would try to cover it up. The main stream media was particularly amazed that they didn’t have to file lawsuits to get a look at the tapes. There was a suggestion that prompt responsibility should be the new norm.

Incidents like Tyre’s perhaps happens more in America. Prejudice is different elsewhere. You have genocide, gas chambers, massacres, death. It is just done more by armies than police. As John has stated, if you come to see the other as different, as inhuman, violence by government and others becomes more common and acute. America just used our minorities: to harvest cotton, to build railroads, to fill factories. It was not to steal lands, with the exception of the Native Americans. There we used our army as well.

Is killing an innocent citizen because of prejudice a feature of America, or a flaw? In this, are people really conservatives resisting a change rather than a progressives who wants to fix something? Yes, hatred of those different is an instinct that should be noted, that we should be aware of, but it is not something that should be celebrated and encouraged in one's own culture.

And what has Antifa to do with the incident? Antifa was a defensive organization to protect protestors from conservative violence. In the early days of the BLM protests, there was enough violence for them to defend against. Not so common these days. I was beginning to hope that the BLM protests had changed the conservative habit of violence. When has Antifa surfaced recently save in conservative propaganda? The major example was that January 6 with all its Trump and Confederate flags was alleged to be an Antifa false flag operation for a while. It seems every time the conservative violence manifests, they try to blame it on Antifa with no evidence. Can you give a source, John? Was Tyre traveling in a large group? Did he cover his face? Did he carry a weapon?

Blame the victim?

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

Saturday, January 28th, 2023

antifa is involved because that poster is from antifa, and is inciting widespread violence in New York City, none of which is "defensive."

do you even know what's going on? nobody is accusing antifa of killing Tyre Nichols. Tyree Nichols was killed by five black policemen, who are currently being charged with second degree murder.

if you're saying that antifa is a defensive organization, then I assume you must also believe that the ku Klux kluan in the last century was also a defensive organization by the Democrats, presumably lynching young black males and raping black girls in order to protect them from the "conservative" Republicans who had committed the crime of freeing the slaves.

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Re: Obsolete worldviews believed

Post by FullMoon »

John wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:13 pm
Tuesday, January 17th, 2023


Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:02 am
John

The January 6 Committee came up with a considerable list of crimes. Trump was part of the fake elector scheme, a felony. There was the phone call where he tried to change votes in Georgia and elsewhere, again felony. There was the Tax Fraud in New York which recently convicted the corporation. The Impeachments were silly. They should have known the Republican Senate members would ignore their oaths of office. Leave alone organizing the insurrection. I could go on, but that is enough.

Now this is common knowledge by anyone who has followed the news recently. Do you think your contradicting common knowledge gets you a favorable reputation? I acknowledge your conservative bias, but throw Generational Dynamics away by making this biased opinion obvious? You wonder why you aren’t taken seriously?
first off, we now know from the Twitter files, from the contents of Hunter's laptop, from, FBI whistleblowers, and most recently from the stonewalling by the Biden administration of the classified documents situation, that the Biden administration did indeed rig the 2020 election, and may also have rigged the 2022 election. we also know that the Biden family is a corrupt criminal organization from top to bottom,
for massive influence pedaling, selling influence to China, Russia, iran, and Ukraine for tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, and then laundering that money through various crony organizations.

there was no way that the things you listed are crimes by Trump. The third was a tax issue with his corporation, not with him, and the first two are not crimes because, if they were, the committee would have issued criminal referrals. Trump and Rudy Giuliani were having conversations with legislators in various swing states about appointing alternate electors. All they were doing is talking. and as much as Democrats would like to revoke the first amendment for Republicans, it is no felony or any kind of crime for people to be talking. The same is true for the Georgia situation.
what Trump was doing may have been stupid and delusional, but it was only talking, and it was not a crime.

there's another reason why the Democrats will not attempt to prosecute Trump for a crime. if they tried, then there would be discovery and a trial, and the Republicans would be able to start calling witnesses from the FBI and the Biden administration to expose their crimes. for example, it's known from whistleblowers that there were about 30 FBI agents in the crowd on January 6th, provoking the crowd to enter the capital building. it's easy to tell who these people were, because they weren't arrested and thrown into jail for a year without a trial, as happened to the Trump supporters. once that door was opened, the Republicans could then subpoena a number of others in the Biden administration. The investigative committees in the house of representatives would then subpoena the same witnesses, and the entire Biden criminal organization would be exposed. and so, Trump will never be actually charged with the imaginary crimes that you and the Democrats are you and the Democrats are referencing.

so once again, Trump has committed no crimes, and will not be prosecuted even for the imaginary crimes that you and the January 6th committee of Trump hating politicians come up with.
Thanks for clarifying this important topic. But really, facts and evidence aren't important for ideologies based on hatred. It is good to set the record straight for anyone still searching for answers.

"first off, we now know from the Twitter files, from the contents of Hunter's laptop, from, FBI whistleblowers, and most recently from the stonewalling by the Biden administration of the classified documents situation, that the Biden administration did indeed rig the 2020 election, and may also have rigged the 2022 election. we also know that the Biden family is a corrupt criminal organization from top to bottom,
for massive influence pedaling, selling influence to China, Russia, iran, and Ukraine for tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, and then laundering that money through various crony organizations."

Leftists are doing exactly what they accuse the other side of, and nobody has the time to pay attention or understand. Worse yet, deranged lunatics like BB actively engage in undermining society and work to destroy it by muddying the waters and spreading lies.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by FullMoon »

John wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:55 pm
Saturday, January 28th, 2023

antifa is involved because that poster is from antifa, and is inciting widespread violence in New York City, none of which is "defensive."

do you even know what's going on? nobody is accusing antifa of killing Tyre Nichols. Tyree Nichols was killed by five black policemen, who are currently being charged with second degree murder.

if you're saying that antifa is a defensive organization, then I assume you must also believe that the ku Klux kluan in the last century was also a defensive organization by the Democrats, presumably lynching young black males and raping black girls in order to protect them from the "conservative" Republicans who had committed the crime of freeing the slaves.
I'm curious as to why the Antifa terrorist organization is being called into action right now. They were used effectively in 2020 and I thought this would happen next year. If these things continue or build, I suppose this spring will be quite eventful in the Pacific together with central Asia. Maybe it's something else, what other motives could be behind this?

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