Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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John
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

** 14-Apr-2021 World View: Free Speech and Inciting Violence

Joe Biden, who holds the US Constitution in contempt, says that no
amendment is absolute.

Well, in the case of free speech, it's not absolute. You can't cry
"Fire!" in a crowded theatre, and you can't incite violence. In this
forum there is no First Amendment, since I decide what is ok. So
racism and inciting violence are not ok.

You've been nothing but a headache for me, because you never
contribute anything useful to the discussion, but only say the same
racist things over and over again, spewing vitriolic hatred towards
the 75 million Tea Partiers and Trump supporters in general, and all
the members of this forum in particular.

You may say that my web site and this forum are an "obscure web site,"
but they are still visited by tens of thousands of people. And so
inciting violence is not acceptable.

You aren't the first person I had to warn about racism or inciting
violence. For example, here's a post from two years ago where I gave
someone a similar warning:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5168&p=47106#p47106

The rules are completely different for Republicans and Democrats.
Trump is accused without evidence of inciting violence in his January
6 speech, even though if you read the text of his speech you can see
he didn't incite violence. On the other hand, Democrats incite
violence all the time and are not criticized for it. Kamala Harris
criminally incites violence every day, whether by encouraging
antifa-blm fascists to burn down cities, or by paying bail for thugs,
robbers, rapists and murderers so that the can get out of jail and
commit more crimes. Democrats also regularly threaten and incite
violence against the families of anyone who opposes them politically.
This happens regularly to Fox reporters, for example, and during the
Ukraine impeachment hearing to anyone who testified against shithead
Adam Schiff's lies. Democrats also incite rape by such things as
approving Bill Clinton's violent rape of a dozen women. And
historically, of course, the Democrats are the party of lynching,
beating, enslaving, raping, and killing blacks in the KKK.

So the rules are completely different for Republicans and Democrats,
and you may believe that since you're a Democrat you can commit any
crime you want with impunity. That may be true outside of this forum,
but you still can't incite violence in this forum.

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Bob Butler
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

Actually, the limit is that you cannot interpret one right as giving the ability to cause harm to others or infringe the rights of others. You can not deny my right to free speech if I am doing something other than those two things. The point is, if you are encouraging racism and the oppression of minorities, you are causing harm and infringing on rights. The fact that there are limits to the Bill of Rights is only relevant if you are willing to say what those limits are. If you are lying and appropriating to yourself the ability to rewrite the Constitution you are sadly mistaken.

If I am nothing but a pain, how come you keep thanking me for stating my perspective?

If you define useful to the discussion as helping advocate racism and oppression, I’m glad I have not been helpful, but the discussion of racism and oppression should include the perspective that they should not be encouraged.

Again, it is not 75 million Tea Party people and Trump supporters that are deplorable. There are non deplorable folks who are conservative. I actually liked the Tea Party when they were rejecting the Republican establishment, but a lot of folks are more dedicated to racism than they are against the elite. For a time the Republicans were ahead of the Democrats in rejecting their respective establishments. Trump took over the Republicans to the extent that the Tea Party is no more. When Trump was in power, the racists and elites worked together. Shaking loose from the influence of the Trump years is a valid goal of many conservatives, and more power to them. At any rate, less than 75 million deplorables, much less since the January 6 insurrection. How much less I am not sure, but judging just from the change in party affiliations it is considerable.

I do hope you stop inciting violence. Murdering minorities is not OK. Holding cops responsible for their actions is called for. Black lives do matter.

The objectives of Republicans and Democrats are different. One advocates oppression and violence, tribal thinking. The other embraces democracy, human rights and equality. As a result, one group keeps running afoul of the law while the other doesn’t.

Racism is in part keeping the other group from jobs of influence and wealth. Just compare Trump’s cabinet to Biden’s if you want to identify the group into racism.

I don’t believe I can commit any crime with impunity. That is one of your many lies against those who disagree with your worldview. It is an easily disprovable glaring lie. How easy would it be to commit a crime? How many have I committed? As I said earlier, give me a docket number. I happen to know you can’t. If you have no evidence of something, don’t lie about it. Your credibility with respect to understanding the motivations of those who disagree with you is horrible already.

And could you come up with some new lies? Answering the old ones over and over is getting repetitive.
Last edited by Bob Butler on Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

I guess the main point is that it is not too hard to predict disasters in far away areas of the world where racism, oppression and violence are common. It is another thing to advocate racism, oppression and violence in your own culture.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:32 pm
No one ever talks about WHY that all happened in Germany. Why? The propagandists don't want people to tell the truth. The only major story about Hitler's Germany is just how much more the Germans were advanced than nearly all other groups. Beyond their pagan and demonic elements they had, for materialists, they proved themselves to do in 10 years what other human groups couldn't do in thousands. That's what was so scary about it.
The truth is that they were into tribal thinking. They developed a hatred for the Jews and Slavs among others, oppressed them, and used them as an excuse for invasion to get more territory and resources. That was not new beyond using advanced technology. Tribal thinking was common enough prior to World War II.

War was more cost effective before nukes, proxy war and insurgency. A military culture could get ahead by using force. Rather than being ‘advanced’, the Axis powers were slow to recognize that times were changing. Trying to advocate continued hatred, oppression and violence is no more constructive today, but backwards forces are stubborn and keep on trying.

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Bob Butler
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:49 am
The question of where the country is going, and how the catastrophe in Washington will end, is discussed frequently in this forum. And actually I've answered this question probably dozens of times in the past already, but perhaps it's time to do so again, by responding to a couple of e-mail messages I received recently.
A few nitpicks.

I think S&H called it a trigger event, not a regeneracy event. At any rate, it ends the compromises and debate and forces decisive change.

The unity is hardly perfect. There were royalists defending the king in the US Revolution, confederates defending slavery in the US Civil War, folks defending no government action after the stock market collapse, and those favoring not taking action against the dictators. Conservatives stick to their guns when the need for change is glaringly obvious, even after the trigger occurs. This time around, these might be the arrival of COVID in New York, and the George Floyd killing.

FDR was thus divisive, yes. He proposed and was central to two major ideas, regulating and enhancing the economy, and the world’s policeman role. These are both embraced by both parties today, but were decisive at the time. The nitpick would be that FDR won four elections by ever increasing margins. The conservatives were as usual wrong in clinging to an economy that featured repeated depressions and allowing aggressive dictators using force to expand. More and more people recognized it.

If anyone is turning Fascist, it would be the Republicans. Facism uses tribal thinking to instigate hatred oppression and violence against the minority and an excuse to use force against them. That does not reflect either party’s international position, or the Democrats internally. They will tend to side with the minorities who are target of tribal thinking.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

** 16-Apr-2021 World View: The Marxist-Fascist regime
Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:52 pm
> I think S&H called it a trigger event, not a regeneracy event. At
> any rate, it ends the compromises and debate and forces decisive
> change.
Strauss and Howe's work is 30 years old, and is badly out of date, and
has errors that I've corrected. I'm the only person developing modern
generational theory, as far as I know. Using the phrase "trigger
event" is ok, but I think it's confusing, since trigger events apply
to lots of things. I prefer "regeneracy event," since it's more
specific and a lot clearer.
Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:52 pm
> The unity is hardly perfect. There were royalists defending the
> king in the US Revolution, confederates defending slavery in the
> US Civil War, folks defending no government action after the stock
> market collapse, and those favoring not taking action against the
> dictators. Conservatives stick to their guns when the need for
> change is glaringly obvious, even after the trigger occurs. This
> time around, these might be the arrival of COVID in New York, and
> the George Floyd killing.
You're confusing external wars with civil wars. The Revolutionary War
was a civil war, British against British. The Civil War was a civil
war, Republicans who freed the slaves versus Democrats who wanted (and
still want) blacks to be slaves. In a civil war, regeneracy events
separately unify the two warring sides.

Covid and George Floyd are not regeneracy events, idiot.
Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:52 pm
> If anyone is turning Fascist, it would be the Republicans.
You would say that because you're a part of and a supporter of the
violent Democrat Marxist-Fascist regime, you fully support the
criminal activities of the Democrat regime, and you frequently post
lies and disinformation. That makes you a Marxist-Fascist as well.
Nothing you say is really credible, and you rarely post sources.

In fact, two days ago when I posted a link to the NY Post story about
corruption and criminality in BLM, you demanded that it be removed
from your thread. You may be interested in knowing that Facebook and
Twitter are also refusing to post links to the story. So you Democrat
Marxist-Fascists are all alike.

I was reminded today that in his inaugural address, JFK said that
"those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger
ended up inside." You should heed JFK's words before you've
completely sold your soul.

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Bob Butler
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

The unity of a regeneracy is imperfect, more so when the culture is split as evenly as the US Civil War and today. Still, even in the US Civil War we have the Mississippi county of Jones and the nomination and early lead of McClellan in the 1864 election before Atlanta fell. Neither faction was totally united. Similarly, many states today have more people in rural areas or (sub)urban. Especially with conservatives so stubborn, everybody really sticking with their values, perfect unity is very unlikely.

It is just that kill a black man and you will be tried. Hold an insurrection, and you will be tried. Try voter fraud, and you will be tried. Harass a black serviceman, and you will be sued. See the general pattern? The values are shifting and sticking with the old values will get you in trouble.

In your opinion only crisis wars can lead to a crisis. Other websites disagree. Not everyone who disagrees with you as an idiot. It is more likely that it is you that is the idiot. Conservatives are generally wrong. Go with kings over democracy. Go with slave ownership. Etc…. Come the crisis, the most obsolete, flawed and thus conservative ideas have got to go and do go.

I see the primary focus of fascism was on tribal thinking, which would be more Republican. Both see a special place for the established, and tried/try to oppress groups unlike them. Marxists supposedly are out to eliminate capitol from the culture, but in practice have been more about replacing one group of elites with themselves, the Communist Party, and continuing that party using autocratic power indefinitely rather than attempting to fade away the government. That party replacement doesn’t match the policies of either party particularly well, but Trump’s affection for autocracy and attempt to bypass democracy is almost a match. Still, you try to ignore what the Republicans are trying to do, and insist on absurd comparisons with the last crisis that don't fit the basics.

In short, you lie to attempt to make your point.

This is not to say the Democrats are perfect, but you could try for real criticism instead of making up lies.

With respect to tiger riding, you should ask yourself if you should ride on tribal thinking or with any conserve idea that is past its prime. Bring back kings, slaves, depressions and dictators? You are on the wrong side of history, and the tiger is just beginning to buck.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:24 pm
It is just that kill a black man and you will be tried. Hold an insurrection, and you will be tried. Try voter fraud, and you will be tried. Harass a black serviceman, and you will be sued. See the general pattern? The values are shifting and sticking with the old values will get you in trouble.
With the Chauvin verdict in, that's one down. It is almost like we are getting out of the regeneracy, getting into the nuts and bolts of the crisis. Some of it will be upcoming court verdicts. Some of it will be bills coming out of congress. Will the Republicans want a return to normal with COVID enough to drop the political posturing. A long ways to go before acting on the old values will be something one doesn't do any more.

But one down. Two if you count the COVID rescue bill.

The big thing might even be continued Republican obstructionism. Common wisdom lately is that come the midterm, the party that won the White House doesn't do well. Then you look back to the last crisis. FDR won each election more decisively. The do nothing conservatives in an environment where you had to do something lost more decisively each time. Already the Republicans are voting unanimously against extremely popular bills. How long will they keep that up before the result becomes clear?

I don't think we can hang on a tied senate where every senator has a veto. If anything is to be done, you have to go with the party that is trying to do something.

But at this point I am content seeing how things go.

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