Religion and Vaccine Arguments

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John
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Religion and Vaccine Arguments

Post by John »

This thread can be used for contentious arguments over vaccines or
anti-vaccines or religion or anti-religion or any other contentious
subject or anti-subject.

tim
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:33 am

Re: Nuclear War

Post by tim »

Navigator wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:22 pm
tim wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:11 pm
Is the "vaccine" the real bio weapon from China? I'm not convinced yet but its plausible. Release the virus on your own people, cause a worldwide pandemic and then use fear to drive China's enemies into injecting themselves with a slow acting poison. Half the country supposedly has been injected.
I feel that the vaccine is like the Polio vaccine. I was vaccinated for polio as a child. I am very glad my parents did this. Because I didn't get Polio (I saw the effects of polio on people who had it). I also had to prove that I was vaccinated so I could go to school.

I took the virus vaccine because I don't want to end up in the hospital, nor have my family get exposed to the virus because of me.

There is no conspiracy about the virus vaccine (other than maybe the ineffectiveness of the Russian and Sino versions). Vaccines work and have prevented untold death and suffering in the world.
mRNA is not a vaccine.

A vaccine keeps you from getting infected and sick from a virus. These do not do that. You can still catch, spread, and die of COVID even after getting the shots. The definition of a vaccine was literally updated to included mRNA after these shots came out. I know of people "fully vaccinated" who had more severe illness then I did.

"Fully vaccinated" people in Israel are dying from COVID-19. How many people died from polio after being vaccinated? Surely you can see the obvious difference between the polio vaccine and the mRNA experimental shots?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08 ... feat-delta

The biggest red flag to me about these shots is how the Bolshevik Democrats are demanding that everyone get them, even if you already had COVID.

People who were infected with SARS-COV1 back in 2002 were immune to SARS-COV2 nearly 20 years later. The difference in the genome between SARS-COV1 and SARS-COV2 is about 20%. Yet the Bolsheviks say someone who had COVID and now has natural immunity is not protected from the "delta variant". All the known variants are less then 1% different then the original strain found in China in 2019.

You don't think that is a red flag?

Is it possible that the Democratic party is under Chinese influence right now? Is it possible that the vaccines, which originally come from China, are the real bio weapon?
“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; - Exodus 20:5

Navigator
Posts: 901
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:15 pm

Re: Nuclear War

Post by Navigator »

tim wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:11 pm

The biggest red flag to me about these shots is how the Bolshevik Democrats are demanding that everyone get them, even if you already had COVID.

People who were infected with SARS-COV1 back in 2002 were immune to SARS-COV2 nearly 20 years later. The difference in the genome between SARS-COV1 and SARS-COV2 is about 20%. Yet the Bolsheviks say someone who had COVID and now has natural immunity is not protected from the "delta variant". All the known variants are less then 1% different then the original strain found in China in 2019.

You don't think that is a red flag?

Is it possible that the Democratic party is under Chinese influence right now? Is it possible that the vaccines, which originally come from China, are the real bio weapon?
The current vaccine, like flu vaccines, is not perfect. It does, however, give you a lot of protection. Note the anti-Vaxxers who end up in the hospital and then die of the virus. The VAST majority of people dying right now are those not getting vaccinated.

The delta and now lambda variants are similar to the modification that the flu virus goes through. And we end up needing different flu shots.

I do think that the Democratic party is somewhat under Chinese influence, but not in that the vaccine is the real bio weapon. I think the Chinese influence is more about policy (and getting America to factionalize).

tim
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:33 am

Re: Nuclear War

Post by tim »

Navigator wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:21 pm
The current vaccine, like flu vaccines, is not perfect. It does, however, give you a lot of protection. Note the anti-Vaxxers who end up in the hospital and then die of the virus. The VAST majority of people dying right now are those not getting vaccinated.
You've fallen for the propaganda.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defe ... narrative/
How CDC Manipulated Data to Create ‘Pandemic of the Unvaxxed’ Narrative

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the unvaccinated make up 95% to 99% of COVID hospitalizations. But in a news clip shared by Fox News host Laura Ingraham, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky reveals how that data is “grossly misleading.”

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the White House and most mainstream media, what we have now is a “pandemic of the unvaccinated,” with 95% to 99% of COVID-related hospitalizations and deaths being attributed to the unvaccinated.

To achieve that statistic, the CDC included hospitalization and mortality data from January through June. The vast majority of the U.S. population was unvaccinated during that timeframe.

By Jan. 1 only 0.5% of the U.S. population had received a COVID shot. By mid-April, an estimated 31% had received one or more shots and as of June 15, 48.7% were fully “vaccinated.”

Natural immunity offers robust protection against all variants, whereas vaccine-induced immunity can’t. The reason for this is because when you recover from the natural infection, you have both antibodies and T cells against all parts of the virus, not just the spike protein.

According to Dr. Anthony Fauci, the Delta variant is both more transmissible and more dangerous than the original virus and previous variants, but real-world data show it is actually weaker and far less dangerous, even though it does spread more easily.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the White House and most mainstream media, what we have now is a “pandemic of the unvaccinated.”

According to the official narrative, 99% of COVID-19 deaths and 95% of COVID-related hospitalizations are occurring among the unvaccinated. In a July 16 White House press briefing, CDC director Dr. Rochelle Walensky claimed “over 97% of people who are entering the hospital right now are unvaccinated.”

But as reported by Fox News anchor Laura Ingraham on “The Ingraham Angle,” “that statistic is grossly misleading,” and in an Aug. 5 video statement, Walensky inadvertently revealed how that 95% to 99% statistic was created.

Grossly misleading data manipulation

As it turns out, to achieve those statistics, the CDC included hospitalization and mortality data from January through June 2021. It does not include more recent data or data related to the Delta variant, which is now the most prevalent strain in circulation. The problem is, the vast majority of the U.S.population was unvaccinated during that timeframe.

By Jan. 1, only 0.5% of the U.S. population had received a COVID shot. By mid-April, an estimated 31% had received one or more shots, and as of June 15, 48.7% were fully “vaccinated.” Keep in mind that you’re not “fully vaccinated” until two weeks after your second dose (in the case of Pfizer or Moderna), which is given up to six weeks after your first shot. This is according to the CDC.

So, those receiving an initial dose in June, for example, won’t be “fully vaccinated” until eight weeks later, sometime in July or August.

By using statistics from a time period when the U.S. as a whole was largely unvaccinated, the CDC is now claiming we’re in a “pandemic of the unvaccinated,” in an effort to demonize those who still have not agreed to receive this experimental gene modification injection.

Here’s what Canadian viral immunologist and vaccine researcher Dr. Byram Bridle told Ingraham about the claim that we’re in a pandemic of the unvaxxed, and that the unvaccinated are hotbeds for dangerous variants:

“Absolutely, it’s untrue to be calling this a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it’s certainly untrue … that the unvaccinated are somehow driving the emergence of the novel variants. This goes against every scientific principle that we understand.

“The reality is, the nature of the vaccines we are using right now, and the way we’re rolling them out, are going to be applying selective pressure to this virus to promote the emergence of new variants. Again, this is based on sound principles.

“We have to look no further than … the emergence of antibiotic resistance … The principle is this: If you have a biological entity that is prone to mutation — and the SARS-CoV-2, like all coronaviruses is prone to mutation — and you apply a narrowly focused selective pressure that is nonlethal, and you do this over a long period of time, this is the recipe for driving the emergence of novel variants.

“This is exactly what we’re doing. Our vaccines are focused on a single protein of the virus, so the virus only has to alter one protein, and the vaccines don’t come close to providing sterilizing immunity.

“People who are vaccinated still get infected, it only seems particularly good at blunting the disease, and what that tells you therefore is that these vaccines in the vast majority of people are applying a nonlethal pressure, narrowly focused on one protein, and the vaccine rollout is occurring over a long period of time. That’s the recipe for driving variants.”

Natural immunity offers far superior protection

Bridle also explains why natural immunity offers robust protection against all variants, whereas vaccine-induced immunity can’t. When you acquire the infection naturally, your body develops antibodies against ALL of the viral proteins whereas the COVID shots only trigger antibodies against one, namely the spike protein.
“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; - Exodus 20:5

Navigator
Posts: 901
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:15 pm

Re: Nuclear War

Post by Navigator »

tim wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:20 pm
https://www.bitchute.com/video/6MS6wiOFb3dI/

At 2:20 Dr. David Martin explains the shot is a computer generated code uploaded by the Chinese in January that was given to Moderna to put into an injection so that your cells would produce the S1 spike protein synthesis. Not the actual virus like the way we used to do vaccines.

The shot injects a pathogen stimulant into the American population.

Would this not be a great opportunity for what General Chi Haotian was speaking of?

If the Chinese had the code to make the mRNA shot, why are the Chinese not using the shot on their own population?
This whole bit is debunked here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN2AM0SS

The Reuters article includes the links (not copied below) to provide more basis for the debunking of this.

"A video shared on social media has claimed that the mRNA coronavirus vaccine is not actually a vaccine, but a “device” designed to make people sick. This is false."

"In it a man referred to as “Dr David Martin”, who has been linked to previous misinformation about the pandemic (here , here) is seen speaking on a video call.

In the clip, Martin claims that the vaccine is not actually a vaccine, but a “medical device” that makes people sick.

“This is not a vaccine. This is a mRNA packaged in a fat envelope that is delivered to a cell. It is a medical device designed to stimulate the human cell into becoming a pathogen creator” (timecode – 00:19), Martin says.

“You are getting injected with a chemical substance to induce illness, not to induce an immuno-transmissive response, in other words nothing about this is going to stop you from transmitting anything. This is about getting you sick and having your own cells be the thing that gets you sick” (timecode – 5:20).

While there are different types of vaccine, they broadly have the same definition.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) defines a vaccine as a product that stimulates the immune system into producing immunity to a disease, and protects the person from that disease (here).

This is how mRNA coronavirus vaccines work, but in a different way than has been seen before.

While earlier vaccinations used a weakened or inactivated form of a virus, mRNA vaccines instruct cells to make a specific protein to trigger an immune response (here).

These vaccines have been found to prevent symptomatic and severe effects of COVID-19 (here).

Research is ongoing to determine whether the vaccines have an effect on transmission.

However, data analysis in a pre-published study by the Israeli Health Ministry and Pfizer Inc, which is not yet peer reviewed, found the Pfizer mRNA vaccine reduces infection, including in asymptomatic cases, by 89.4% and in symptomatic cases by 93.7% (here).

Reuters has debunked false claims about vaccine safety (here) and (here).

VERDICT
False. mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are designed to induce an immune response and to protect a person against the disease.

This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team. Read more about our work to fact-check social media posts here."

tim
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:33 am

Re: Nuclear War

Post by tim »

If this is true, we are at war with China already and the attack on America is in progress.

J.R. Nyquist seems to think so.

A MSM "fact checker" means nothing to me. I do not trust the MSM. Our government institutions have been compromised by either the Chinese or the natural generational cycle. The political dysfunction and collapse of the old order are present in Big Pharma, the CDC, NIH, FDA.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/6MS6wiOFb3dI/

25:30

"The entire program has been a bio weapons program to inject a Chinese source computer simulated pathogen into a global population under the guise of a pandemic"

32:10

"You are not getting a pathogen that your body is responding to with an immune response. You are getting the instructions for your cells to create the pathogen, and then you hope that your body comes up with an immune response. The clinical trials did not measure immune response."
“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; - Exodus 20:5

Navigator
Posts: 901
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:15 pm

Re: Nuclear War

Post by Navigator »

tim wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:00 pm
If this is true, we are at war with China already and the attack on America is in progress.

J.R. Nyquist seems to think so.

A MSM "fact checker" means nothing to me. I do not trust the MSM. Our government institutions have been compromised by either the Chinese or the natural generational cycle. The political dysfunction and collapse of the old order are present in Big Pharma, the CDC, NIH, FDA.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/6MS6wiOFb3dI/

25:30

"The entire program has been a bio weapons program to inject a Chinese source computer simulated pathogen into a global population under the guise of a pandemic"

32:10

"You are not getting a pathogen that your body is responding to with an immune response. You are getting the instructions for your cells to create the pathogen, and then you hope that your body comes up with an immune response. The clinical trials did not measure immune response."
Since you don't believe anyone but this "Dr" Martin, have you ever wondered if maybe he is a Chinese agent and is telling people not to get the vaccine because ours are effective while the Chinese vaccine is not? Maybe the Chinese want us to not take the vaccine?

You have to validate sources. There is no serious secondary validation of what this guy is saying. Rueters at least has shown itself to be one of the least partisan news sources.

Of course I have no illusions that you will change your mind, but maybe others will take the time and make the effort to try and find out what is true and what isn't. The internet is more and more a source of these preposterous conspiracy theories and crackpot ideas. Believe what you want at your own peril.

JCP

Re: Nuclear War

Post by JCP »

tim wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:00 pm
If this is true, we are at war with China already and the attack on America is in progress.

J.R. Nyquist seems to think so.

A MSM "fact checker" means nothing to me. I do not trust the MSM. Our government institutions have been compromised by either the Chinese or the natural generational cycle. The political dysfunction and collapse of the old order are present in Big Pharma, the CDC, NIH, FDA.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/6MS6wiOFb3dI/

25:30

"The entire program has been a bio weapons program to inject a Chinese source computer simulated pathogen into a global population under the guise of a pandemic"

32:10

"You are not getting a pathogen that your body is responding to with an immune response. You are getting the instructions for your cells to create the pathogen, and then you hope that your body comes up with an immune response. The clinical trials did not measure immune response."
And with these last conspiratorial posts, all of your earlier measured and rational posts seem like farce, Tim.

Next you will be looking for witches to burn...

Cool Breeze
Posts: 2935
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: Nuclear War

Post by Cool Breeze »

Medically, tim's post are accurate. The problem is the reference to a "computer code". It is beyond dispute that the "vaccine" is not a vaccine by former or historical definitions, it is a gene therapy - most specifically it is an mRNA therapy. No vaccine, Navi, that you have EVER taken in your life was an mRNA or gene therapy. And I won't even get into the J&J adenovirus gene therapy (which it is as well) that has historically had really bad outcomes in trials on animals (as have all coronavirus vaccines, regardless of type).

The single subunit mRNA therapy that uses your body's cellular machinery to create large amounts of the spike protein (S subunit) is what put pressure and forced faster mutations on this coronavirus. Put in layman's terms: the mRNA therapies CAUSED the delta variant. And they'll cause more variants, none of which matter if you have natural immunity, which is far better (shown in Israel to be 13x better than any mRNA therapy given). See Alex Berenson's post which show Israeli data.

If you still don't know what I'm talking about, go search and listen to astra zeneca's CEO and chief researchers talk about how they have been preparing this therapy to include all sorts of other applications. If you still don't understand that mRNA therapies aren't a vaccine after that, and that the whole goal has been to get a human test population without any accountability in order to further their profits and research, you have real issues in logic, critical thinking, and cognition and perhaps, honesty.

tim
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:33 am

Re: Nuclear War

Post by tim »

JCP wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:22 am
And with these last conspiratorial posts, all of your earlier measured and rational posts seem like farce, Tim.

Next you will be looking for witches to burn...
The vaccine being the bioweapon as per Chi Haotian's speech is not my idea. It comes from J.R. Nyquist who also posted General Chi Haotian's secret speech, which John even said was worth reading and changed some of his thoughts about the Chinese and their strategy.

I never said for sure the vaccine is the bio weapon and I don't believe Nyquist did either. Its just an idea. I'm willing to entertain the idea.

J.R. Nyquist expands on a fictitious story using the vaccine as a bioweapon here: https://jrnyquist.blog/2021/08/07/a-ver ... interlude/
“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; - Exodus 20:5

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