Financial topics

Investments, gold, currencies, surviving after a financial meltdown
John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Financial topics

Post by John »

A question from a web site reader:
A web site reader wrote: > I have been "paying attention" to this storm for about 2 years. I
> have a room mate. I informed him. Condo is paid off now, no debt,
> food storage. I try to have 3 month's of med's. We live in
> Florida so a lot of this is also due to hurricane prepardness. He
> has 401 K (small) at work. 10,000 CD, little savings. Should we
> take the penalties on the 401K, and CD and get what we can before
> all is lost?
It sounds like your well-prepared for many contingencies, and that's
a very good thing.

With response to your questions about your 401K and CD (certificate
of deposit), by way of introduction, I'll repeat something from a
previous posting:

Returning to your specific question, remember that we're still
waiting for a specific event that HAS to occur at some point: A total
generational panic and crash, a day that will be remembered forever.
On that day, and in the weeks that follow, a lot of money market
funds, banks, hedge funds, and so forth will collapse.

What's going to happen at that point cannot be completely predicted,
but it appears that money market funds will be safe ONLY if they're
backed by short-term Treasuries.

If you're CD is FDIC insured, then it should be OK.

If your money market fund isn't backed by short-term Treasuries, then
you're probably exposed to a substantial loss.

However, in most cases, you can ask your investment service to
transfer your investments from a money-market fund backed by stocks
to another money-market fund backed by Treasuries.

However, you should have a plan prepared for withdrawals from banks
and money market funds when the generational panic occurs. Even in the
worst scenarios, it's expected that you'll have at least a few days,
PROVIDED THAT YOU DO SO IMMEDIATELY. But this will be a high-risk
time in any event, and a lot of people will certainly lose
everything.

I hope that helps.

John

John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Financial topics

Post by John »

A suggestion from a web site reader:
> I read somebody's answer online to a great "bank". He said take
> one of those old flashlights that doesn't work any more and fill
> it up with Krugerrands. Burglars will never look there;-)
John

John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Financial topics

Post by John »

As of Monday morning, the credit crisis in Europe is not easing. The
TED spread and Libor remain at the high end of their recent ranges.
> Libor/OIS spreads blow out;crisis in Europe deepens

> LONDON, Sept 29 (Reuters) - Global money markets remained frozen
> on Monday, under severe stress as the government rescue of three
> European financial institutions overshadowed U.S. congressional
> agreement over a $700 billion financial stabilisation plan.

> London interbank offered rates for three-month euro funds and the
> premium for borrowing euros over anticipated official policy
> rates rose to their highest ever since the currency was launched
> almost a decade ago.

> Against a backdrop of governments being forced to rescue
> Belgium's Fortis, the UK's Bradford & Bingley and Iceland's
> Glitnir, the European Central Bank and Bank of England on joined
> Asian monetary authorities on Monday in pumping funds into their
> banking systems.

> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/7836493
Wall Street markets opened down 3-4%. The market indexes are now 25%
from their October, 2007, highs. At some point, the fall in share
prices will trigger forced selling, leading to a worldwide panic.

The Bailout of the World plan is, at its bottom, an expensive
psychological ploy to "restore confidence in the markets," but it
doesn't change the fundamentals enough to make any real difference.

It used to be that the Fed could lower interest rates 1/4% to get a
huge psychological boost among investors, but now even the promise of
$700 billion doesn't do the trick. Investors have decided, "Fool me
once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

Europe is a mess this morning, with a couple more major bank
failures.

John

John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Financial topics

Post by John »

A question from a web site reader:
> Thanks for the reply and the answers you posted. Based on what
> you stated about the money market funds I wanted to ask a further
> question. My major savings is in a 401K and all of that is parked
> in a very low yielding money market fund. Unfortunately, due to
> the way the IRS structures the rules and my relative youth if I
> try and remove any money from the fund I will get soaked. Given
> the alternative of a money market fund or a federal treasuries
> bond fund which do you think would be safer? BTW - I have not
> been able to find out what investment vehicles the money market
> fund invests in. Kind of surprised me...
If I understand you correctly, you have two choices:
  • A money market fund backed by unknown securities.
  • A Federal Treasuries bond fund backed by Treasuries.
Is there really any choice?

Transfer your funds to the Treasuries bond fund immediately.

John

John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Financial topics

Post by John »

"More than a trillion dollars in market value was lost today because
of the failure of a $700 billion bailout plan."

Code: Select all

Dow        10,365.45               -777.68               (-6.98%)
Nasdaq      1,983.73               -199.61               (-9.14%)
S&P 500     1,107.06               -105.95               (-8.73%)

John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Financial topics

Post by John »

According to a WSJ article today, the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy two weeks
ago has caused a sharp forced selling chain reaction, which is continuing
today, and contributed to the 7-9% Wall Street collapse today:


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1222661 ... od=testMod

* SEPTEMBER 29, 2008

Lehman's Demise Triggered
Cash Crunch Around Globe

Decision to Let Firm Fail Marked a Turning Point in Crisis

By CARRICK MOLLENKAMP and MARK WHITEHOUSE in London, JON HILSENRATH in
Washington and IANTHE JEANNE DUGAN in New York

Two weeks ago, Wall Street titans and the government's most powerful
economic stewards made a fateful choice: Rather than propping up
another failing financial institution, they let 158-year-old Lehman
Brothers Holdings Inc. collapse.

Now, the consequences of that decision look more dire than almost
anyone imagined.

[A policeman tries to calm and direct customers crowding the entrance
of a branch of Hong Kong] AFP/Getty Images

A policeman tries to calm and direct customers crowding the entrance
of a branch of Hong Kong's Bank of East Asia after rumors spread about
BEA's exposure to assets linked to failed investment bank Lehman
Brothers.

Lehman's bankruptcy filing in the early hours of Monday, Sept. 15,
sparked a chain reaction that sent credit markets into disarray. It
accelerated the downward spiral of giant U.S. insurer American
International Group Inc. and precipitated losses for everyone from
Norwegian pensioners to investors in the Reserve Primary Fund, a U.S.
money-market mutual fund that was supposed to be as safe as cash.
Within days, the chaos enveloped even Wall Street pillars Goldman
Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley. Alarmed U.S. officials rushed to
unveil a more systemic solution to the crisis, leading to Sunday's
agreement with congressional leaders on a $700 billion
financial-markets bailout plan.

The genesis and aftermath of Lehman's downfall illustrate the
difficult position policy makers are in as they grapple with a
deepening financial crisis. They don't want to be seen as too willing
to step in and save financial institutions that got into trouble by
taking big risks. But in an age where markets, banks and investors are
linked through a web of complex and opaque financial relationships,
the pain of letting a large institution go has proved almost
overwhelming.

In hindsight, some critics say the systemic crisis that has emerged
since the Lehman collapse could have been avoided if the government
had stepped in. Before Lehman, federal officials had dealt with a
series of financial brushfires in a way designed to keep troubled
institutions such as Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Bear Stearns Cos. in
business. Judging them as too big to fail, officials committed
billions of taxpayer dollars to prop them up. Not so Lehman.

"I don't understand why they didn't understand that the markets would
be completely spooked by this failure," says Richard Portes, professor
of economics at London Business School and president of the Centre for
Economic Policy Research. Rather than showing the government's
resolve, he says, letting Lehman fail only exacerbated the central
problem that has afflicted markets since the financial crisis began
more than a year ago: Nobody knows which financial firms will be able
to make good on their debts.

To be sure, Lehman's downfall was largely of its own making. The firm
bet heavily on investments in overheated real-estate markets, used
large amounts of borrowed money to supercharge its returns, then was
slower than others to recognize its losses and raise capital when its
bets went wrong. The depth of the firm's woes made finding a willing
buyer a difficult task, leaving officials with few viable options.

Given the limited time and information available, many experts believe
government officials made the best choices possible.

Struggle for Capital

As they watched Lehman struggle to raise capital, policy makers --
including Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, Federal Reserve Chairman
Ben Bernanke and New York Fed President Timothy Geithner -- mulled the
question of whether they could let Lehman fail. On the one hand, they
didn't want to come to the rescue because they were concerned about
moral hazard, the idea that bailouts encourage irresponsible
risk-taking, according to people familiar with the planning. They
doubted Lehman had viable buyers and they thought the market and the
Fed had had time to prepare to handle the fallout if a big institution
collapsed. Still, some Fed officials were leery of sending signals
that the Fed was done working with Wall Street to stop the spreading
crisis. Mr. Geithner, for one, had been telling others that the
markets were still in for serious trouble.

"If you don't do something, the outcome is going to be bad," Mr.
Geithner told executives as they gathered to bargain over Lehman's
fate at the New York Fed's downtown headquarters on Friday night,
Sept. 12, according to a person in the meeting.

At one point, officials raised with Wall Street bankers the
possibility of a private-sector rescue fund, but the bankers either
balked at the idea of bailing out a competitor or didn't have the
extra funds needed, people familiar with the situation said.

Prepare the Markets

Over the weekend, as possible buyouts by Bank of America Corp. and
U.K. bank Barclays PLC fell through, Fed officials focused on what
needed to be done to prepare markets for what would be the largest
bankruptcy in U.S. history. Lehman's total assets of more than $630
billion dwarf WorldCom's assets when the telecom company filed for
bankruptcy in 2002 with assets of $104 billion.

Officials were particularly concerned with two areas: the
credit-default-swap market, where players buy and sell insurance
against defaults on corporate and other bonds; and the so-called repo
market, where Wall Street banks fund their investments by putting up
securities as collateral for short-term loans.

The Fed had been pushing Wall Street firms for months to set up a new
clearinghouse for credit-default swaps. The idea was to provide a more
orderly settlement of trades in this opaque, diffuse market with a
staggering $55 trillion in notional value, and, among other things,
make the market less vulnerable if a major dealer failed. But that
hadn't gotten off the ground. As a result, nobody knew exactly which
firms had made trades with Lehman and for what amounts. On Monday,
those trades would be stuck in limbo. In a last-ditch effort to ease
the problem, New York Fed staff worked with Lehman officials and the
firm's major trading partners to figure out which firms were on
opposite sides of trades with Lehman and cancel them out. If, for
example, two of Lehman's trading partners had made opposite bets on
the debt of General Motors Corp., they could cancel their trades with
Lehman and face each other directly instead.

The Fed had also seen with the collapse of Bear Stearns how the repo
market was prone to severe disruptions when lenders got skittish, a
problem that threatened to cut off crucial funding to Wall Street
banks. Because repo loans are made for periods of as little as a day,
the funding can disappear suddenly -- one reason the Fed set up an
emergency facility to lend to securities firms in the wake of Bear
Stearns's collapse. Fed officials worked furiously through Sunday to
expand that facility, allowing banks to put up as collateral for loans
a wider range of securities, including stocks.

On Sunday, after the Barclays deal fell through, the group began to
"spray foam on the runway" -- the term Mr. Geithner used to describe
measures to cushion the blow. By that night, Fed officials recognized
that their preparations might not cover all contingencies. Still, they
expected the turbulence to settle down after a time, with the help of
the expanded lending facilities they hurried Sunday to put in place.
They also felt that financial institutions and markets had been given
enough time to prepare for the shock of a large failure since the
crisis consumed Bear Stearns in March.

But Lehman's bankruptcy, filed early Monday morning in federal
bankruptcy court -- case No. 08-13555 -- proved far more
destabilizing, and spread much further, than many had expected. The
bankruptcy immediately wiped out huge investments for Lehman
shareholders and bondholders. Among the biggest was Norway's
government pension fund, which invests the country's surplus oil
revenue. As of the end of 2007, the most recent data available, the
fund owned more than $800 million worth of Lehman bonds and stock.
Lehman's demise has become a lightning rod for critics who have long
questioned the way the government was investing the oil resources. A
spokesman said the fund's management is "very concerned and monitoring
the situation closely."

The government's decision to let Lehman go marked a turning point in
the way investors assess risk. When the Fed stepped in to engineer the
takeover of Bear Stearns by J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. in March, Bear's
shareholders lost most of their investments, but bondholders came out
well. In the financial hierarchy of risk, this wasn't surprising,
since bondholders have more contractual rights to get their money back
than equity holders. But it created a false impression among investors
that the government would step in to rescue bondholders when the next
bank ran into trouble. By letting Lehman fail, the government had
suddenly disabused the market of that notion.

The reaction was most evident in the massive credit-default-swap
market, where the cost of insurance against bond defaults shot up
Monday in its largest one-day rise ever. In the U.S., the average cost
of five-year insurance on $10 million in debt rose to $194,000 from
$152,000 Friday, according to the Markit CDX index.

When the cost of default insurance rises, that generates losses for
sellers of insurance, such as banks, hedge funds and insurance
companies. At the same time, those sellers must put up extra cash as
collateral to guarantee they will be able to make good on their
obligations. On Monday alone, sellers of insurance had to find some
$140 billion to make such margin calls, estimates asset-management
firm Bridgewater Associates. As investors scrambled to get the cash,
they were forced to sell whatever they could -- a liquidation that hit
financial markets around the world.

Cash Calls

The cash calls added to the problems of AIG, which was already
teetering toward collapse as it sought to meet more than $14 billion
in added collateral payments triggered by a downgrade in its credit
rating. AIG was one of the biggest sellers in the default insurance
market, with contracts outstanding on more than $400 billion in
bonds.

To make matters worse, actual trading in the CDS market declined to a
trickle as players tried to assess how much of their money was tied up
in Lehman. The bankruptcy meant that many hedge funds and banks that
were on the profitable side of a trade with Lehman were now out of
luck because they couldn't collect their money. Also, clients of
Lehman's prime brokerage, which provides lending and trading services
to hedge funds, would have to try to retrieve their money or their
securities through the courts.

Autonomy Capital Research, a London-based hedge fund that was started
in 2003 by former Lehman trader Robert Charles Gibbins, was among the
Lehman clients who got caught. When Lehman filed for bankruptcy
protection, it froze about $60 million of Autonomy's funds, according
to a person close to the situation. That is about 2% of the $2.5
billion Autonomy manages. An official at Autonomy declined to
comment.

Spooked that other securities firms could fail, hedge funds rushed to
buy default insurance on the firms with which they did business. But
sellers were hesitant, prompting something akin to what happens if
every homeowner in a neighborhood tries to buy homeowners insurance at
exactly the same time. The moves dramatically drove up the cost of
insurance on Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs debt in what became a
dangerous spiral of fear about those firms.

At the same time, hedge funds began pulling their money out of the two
firms. Over the next few days, for example, Morgan Stanley would lose
about 10% of the assets in its prime-brokerage business.

"It was just mayhem," says Thomas Priore, the CEO of New York-based
hedge fund Institutional Credit Partners LLC. "People were paralyzed
by fear of what could erupt."

Amid the uncertainty about how Lehman's bankruptcy would affect other
financial institutions, rumors and confusion sparked wild swings in
stock prices. On Tuesday, for example, a London-based analyst issued a
report saying that Swiss banking giant UBS AG, already hurt by tens of
billions of dollars in write-downs, might lose another $4 billion
because of its exposure to Lehman. Shares in UBS fell 17% on the day.
UBS subsequently said its exposure was no more than $300 million.

Rising concerns about the health of financial institutions quickly
spread to the markets on which banks depend to borrow money. At around
7 a.m. Tuesday in New York, the market got its first jolt of how bad
the day was going to be: In London, the British Bankers' Association
reported a huge rise in the London interbank offered rate, a benchmark
that is supposed to reflect banks' borrowing costs. In its sharpest
spike ever, overnight dollar Libor had risen to 6.44% from 3.11%. But
even at those rates, banks were balking at lending to one another.

Within a few hours, the markets had shifted their focus to the fate of
Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, which found themselves fighting to
restore investors' flagging confidence. During an earnings
presentation in which he answered one after another question about the
firm's ability to borrow money, Goldman chief financial officer David
Viniar made an admission: "We certainly did not anticipate exactly
what happened to Lehman," he said.

Morgan Stanley's stock, meanwhile, plunged 28% in early trading as
investors bet that it would be the next after Lehman to fall. At
around 4 p.m., the firm decided to report its third-quarter earnings a
day early, in the hope that the decent results would halt the stock
decline.

"I care that it could be contagion," Morgan Stanley chief financial
officer Colm Kelleher said in a conference call with analysts. "You've
got fear in the market."

Even as Morgan Stanley's call was taking place, the Lehman fallout
cropped up in a different corner of finance: so-called money-market
funds, widely seen as a safe alternative to bank deposits. Many of the
funds had bought IOUs, known as commercial paper, which Lehman issued
to borrow money for short periods. Now, though, the paper was worth
only 20 cents on the dollar.

At around 5 p.m. New York time, a well-known money-market fund manager
called The Reserve said that its main fund, the Reserve Primary Fund,
owned Lehman debt with a face value of $785 million. The result, said
The Reserve, which had criticized its rivals for taking on too much
risk in the commercial-paper market, was that its net asset value had
fallen below $1 a share -- the first time a money-market fund had
"broken the buck" in 14 years.

The trouble in the commercial-paper market presented a particularly
serious threat to the broader economy. Companies all over the world
depend on commercial paper for short-term borrowings, which they use
for everything from paying salaries to buying raw materials. But as
jittery money-market funds pulled out, the market all but froze.

On Wednesday, the freeze in lending markets triggered a dramatic turn
of events in the U.K. Amid growing concerns about its heavy dependence
on markets to fund its business, HBOS PLC, the UK's biggest mortgage
lender, saw it share price plummet by 19%. The situation was a red
flag for government officials, who suffered embarrassment earlier this
year when they were forced to nationalize troubled mortgage lender
Northern Rock PLC, which had become the target of the country's first
bank run in more than a century.

Moving quickly, the government brokered an emergency sale of HBOS to
U.K. bank Lloyds TSB Group PLC. In a sign of their desperation to make
the deal happen, officials went so far as to amend the U.K.'s
antitrust rules, which could have prevented the merger. Together, HBOS
and Lloyds control nearly a third of the U.K. mortgage market.

Back in New York, the situation at Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs
was worsening rapidly. In the middle of the trading day, at about 2
p.m., Morgan Stanley CEO John Mack dispatched an email to employees:
"What's happening out here? It's very clear to me -- we're in the
midst of a market controlled by fear and rumors." By the end of
Wednesday, employees at Morgan Stanley and Goldman were shell-shocked.
Morgan Stanley's shares had fallen 24% to $21.75 while Goldman, the
largest investment bank by market value, fell 14% to $114.50.

By Thursday, Messrs. Paulson and Bernanke decided that the fallout
presented too great a threat to the financial system and the economy.
In the biggest government intervention in financial markets since the
1930s, they extended federal insurance to some $3.4 trillion in
money-market funds and proposed a $700 billion plan to take bad assets
off the balance sheets of banks.

Three days later, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley applied to the Fed
to become commercial banks -- a historic move that ended the tradition
of lightly regulated Wall Street securities firms that take big risks
in the pursuit of equally big returns.

To some, the government's decision to resort to a bailout represents a
tacit admission: For all officials' desire to allow markets to punish
the risk-taking that engendered the crisis, banks have the upper hand.
"Lehman demonstrated that it's much harder than we thought to deal
effectively with banks' misbehavior," says Charles Wyplosz, an
economics professor at the Graduate Institute in Geneva. "You have to
look the devil in the eyes and the eyes are pretty frightening."

—Sue Craig in New York, Michael M. Phillips in Washington and Neil
Shah in London contributed to this article.

Write to Carrick Mollenkamp at carrick.mollenkamp@wsj.com, Mark
Whitehouse at mark.whitehouse@wsj.com, Jon Hilsenrath at
jon.hilsenrath@wsj.com and Ianthe Jeanne Dugan at
ianthe.dugan@wsj.com

John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Financial topics

Post by John »

Comment from a web site reader:
> Is Purchasing $700 billion of Toxic Assets the Best Way to
> Recapitalize the Financial System?

> No! It is Rather a Disgrace and Rip-Off Benefitting only the
> Shareholders and Unsecured Creditors of Banks

> Read More Here: Link: http://www.rgemonitor.com/ Nouriel Roubini
> | Sep 28, 2008

> A recent IMF study of 42 systemic banking crises across the world
> provides evidence on how different crises were resolved.

> http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2008/wp08224.pdf

> Government purchase of bad assets was the exception rather than
> the rule. It was used only in Mexico, Japan, Bolivia, Czech
> Republic, Jamaica, Malaysia, and Paraguay.

> The Treasury plan is a disgrace: a bailout of reckless bankers,
> lenders and investors that provides little direct debt relief to
> borrowers and financially stressed households and that will come
> at a very high cost to the US taxpayer. And the plan does nothing
> to resolve the severe stress in money markets and interbank
> markets that are now close to a systemic meltdown.

> It is pathetic that Congress did not consult any of the many
> professional economists that have presented - many on the RGE
> Monitor Finance blog forum - alternative plans that were more fair
> and efficient and less costly ways to resolve this crisis. This is
> again a case of privatizing the gains and socializing the losses;
> a bailout and socialism for the rich, the well-connected and Wall
> Street. And it is a scandal that even Congressional Democrats have
> fallen for this Treasury scam that does little to resolve the debt
> burden of millions of distressed home owners.
It doesn't make any difference. Roubini, the IMF, and the others
still don't understand what's going on.

This collapse has been in play at least since the dot-com bubble
began in 1995. The bubble grew for 13 years, morphing into a real
estate bubble and a credit bubble, and now it's going to collapse for
many years.

The deflationary spiral is accelerating, and things are getting much
worse very quickly. I'm expecting a generational crash (the first
since 1929) pretty soon. Forced selling is picking up among hedge
funds, and it won't be long before it turns into total panic. So now
would not be a good time for anyone to make any monetary commitments.

John

John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Tuesday morning, 9/30/2008

Post by John »

Not surprisingly, the market opened 2-3% up today -- panic buying
after a day of panic selling.

An interesting bit of intelligence from the Washington pundits this
morning:

On Monday morning, calls to the House from furious constituents ran 99
to 1 or 300 to 1 against the bailout bill.

After the bill went down around 1:40 pm, and then the market went
down several hundred points, the constituents calling the house were
still furious, but this time they were furious because the bill went
down, and now opinions were only 2 to 1 against the bill -- a big
change.

We're in a period of extremely rapid change in the behaviors and
attitudes among the great masses of people -- exactly the thing that
Generational Dynamics watches for.

This situation also clarifies what happened in 1930. Congress passed
the Smoot-Hawley law, which imposed high tariffs on imported goods
from many countries. The law was opposed by the Hoover
administration and almost universally by all economists, but it
passed anyway because of overwhelming public support.

It was a bad bill, and many people blame the Smoot-Hawley law for
making the Great Depression much worse.

The law shut down Japan's entire silk industry, since Japan could no
longer afford to export to the U.S. This infuriated the Japanese.
Soon after, they invaded Manchuria, and then China, and then bombed
Pearl Harbor.

However, there's a startling similarity to what's going on today. It
seems that Japan's exports to the US have suddenly been cut in half
in the last couple of months -- simply because Americans aren't
buying stuff. This kind of thing raises the question of whether
Japan's exports to US in 1930 would have shut down anyway, even
without the Smoot-Hawley law. This would be a good thesis topic.

Other similarities vis-à-vis Japan:

Code: Select all

Generational market crash:      1919                1990
Shutdown of exports to US:      1930 (1919+11)      2008 (1990+18)
American generational crash:    1929                2008?
John

John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Financial topics

Post by John »

Here's a message from an old friend:
> So how are you doing? I am sitting here watching CNBC and the
> talk about fear in the markets, I do not see the real fear I have
> been waiting for, fear where the people exit the markets and the
> banks. The “follow the herd” has not happen yet, I don’t know if
> we will be able to see the tipping point or there will be a
> general panic from Main Street. There may be a couple up days over
> the next couple months but the downturn now has turned into severe
> downward spiral, I think Oct will be brutal. I have been checking
> you site and blog, the only comment I have is that the great
> depression will not happen again, this time it will be the Greater
> Depression!
You're absolutely right.

The "generational panic and crash" has not yet happened, but it could
happen any day now.

The people in Washington have no idea what's going on. They think
that the market is going down for psychological reasons, and that all
they have to do is "restore confidence."

But the evidence from 1929 refutes that. What is clear is that the
1929 crash was caused by forced selling -- people who had invested on
margin had to sell everything to meet margin calls, and selling
everything pushed prices down even farther. Investor psychology had
absolutely nothing to do with it. It boggles my mind that Ben
Bernanke, who is considered the world's greatest expert on the Great
Depression, doesn't understand that, and has said some unbelievably
dumb things over recent years.

There are actually lots of signs that a lot of forced selling is
going on. The Lehman bankruptcy two weeks ago is apparently having
major chain reaction effects. Pundits have been saying that hedge
funds are deleveraging like mad. And of course, banks have been
falling like dominoes, here and in Europe.

Furthermore, the credit markets are worse today than they were
yesterday, and interest rates are at fresh historically high levels.

One day soon there will be a generational panic and crash because
there MUST be.

Ironically -- and this is perhaps the craziest thing of all -- the
pundits are smiling today, because they believe that the end is in
sight. As you say, there's no sign of real fear on CNBC.

They're hoping for "retail capitulation," where the markets sell off
wildly, and then the bubble can start again. They're hoping for
that, so that the champagne parties can come back. This is exactly
the mistake that investors made in 1929, and it leads to what I've
been calling the "Principle of Maximum Ruin," where everyone gets
back into the market, only to lose money again -- the maximum number
of people are ruined to the maximum extent possible. In 1929, the
markets fell for four years - to 10% of their peak value, by 1933.

So those hoping for "retail capitulation" are going to get their
wish. As usual, be careful what you wish for.

I had lunch today with my boss and his boss. They were discussing
the stock market, and I said, "It's going to crash. Everyone will
lose everything." They both laughed. I guess I was lucky they
didn't call security.
> I thought the plan I laid out for myself 10 years ago was a damn
> good plan, over the years I have made a couple changes. Lately I
> have come to realization that no plan will completely negate what
> we are facing. It is not a matter of coming out of this in future
> smelling like a rose but is down to survival. I have increased how
> much food I need to store, and how much cash I am going to need. I
> am starting to think that we will lose the credit card system a
> lot sooner then I had projected, this may be an unfound fear but I
> have moved the things I need to get off of the internet to the top
> of my list.
You know, I've always thought that, of all the people I know,
including myself, you and your family would be the ones most likely to
survive, and I can see that's still true.

You're absolutely right about credit cards, but it's not just them.
Every form of credit is going to disappear as the deflationary spiral
deepens, and the dollar becomes increasingly scarce and valuable.
That's why I tell people to keep hold of all the credit they can,
while they can.

Sincerely,

John

User avatar
Tom Mazanec
Posts: 4181
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by Tom Mazanec »

To John's Friend:
I doubt it will be called the Greater Depression. The '30s made depression the D-word nobody speaks. The politicians and economists will be calling it a recession, and Average Joe will soon be calling it "The Great Recession" as a sick joke. The moniker will stick, is my guess. Then downturns will have to be called "corrections"...at least until the Great Correction near the end of the century (if the Singularity does not break the generational cycle).
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 125 guests