Re: Generation-X culture vs Boomer culture
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:09 pm
I'm a late-Xer son of a 1940 Silent and a 1943 War Baby cusper.
Speaking only for myself: I have never hated Boomers, instead I've generally looked up to them and wished I'd lived through the times they did. But I don't understand them, and they often react badly to me.
The draft is a very Boomer perspective, and thus valuable for those who want to know what things look like to Boomers and why Boomers often react badly to Xers.
I had to laugh, though, because all the experiences you've had of "inexplicable hostility" from Xers, I've had from Boomers. It's a cultural clash, not one culture being evil. And I had to laugh again when you wrote about how easy it is to get along with Millennials...because sure it's easy. For Boomers. For Xers, no way.
I have had so many bad experiences with Millennials...and when I tried to explain this to a Millennial relative, he just took it as "Xers hate Millennials." (Sound familiar?)
Now to look at some of the specific cultural clashes you discuss.
You have had Xers accuse you of being disrespectful when you were trying to be respectful -- I have had Boomers do the same to me. Including one Boomer where I was bending over backwards to be respectful of both him and his opinion even though I disagreed, because I genuinely liked and admired him and usually agreed with him...yet he still became so enraged at me that he began announcing that if we'd been having this discussion in person, he'd physically beat me up. I still don't know what I did there.
I once had a Boomer boss *crying* as she asked why I treated a Silent coworker with more "respect" than I gave her. I was stunned and didn't know what to do or say, because I thought I had treated the Silent with BLATANT DISrespect, and her with respect. I gave her complete honesty -- to me, that's respect. Him, I placated and lied to and maneuvered around. Often in cahoots with her! To me, that's disrespect.
This suggests a possible explanation for your experiences of being treated with "respect" only to be attacked: You saw it as "respect," the Xer saw it as "disrespect."
Similarly, a possible explanation for Xer managers' sudden anger at you: You thought you were treating them with respect by saying, "I have to tell you I think this is the wrong decision, but after I've told you then I'll do it your way" -- but they took it as disrespect.
I think I understand why you see that as respect: It's respect for the manager's authority over you.
But, well, as Uzi (a fellow 1979 Xer) said on the Fourth Turning boards...Xers were raised without respect for authority. (It's not that we have no morals at all, we just have different morals than Boomers. If we had no morals at all, we would never get outraged, but as you know from experience, we do.)
I guess in Boomer culture, a person can happily do something they are sure is the wrong decision, if they have respect for the authority figure who told them to do it. That is foreign to Xers. From an Xer POV, if you *really* think it's the wrong decision, you'll refuse to do it. From an Xer POV, the only reason to ever do something you think is a bad idea is if someone directly forces you into it because they both can threaten you into it (can beat you up, can fire you, etc.) and also are too stupid and/or overemotional to listen to reason. Xers only ever obey authority figures we've expressed disagreement with if we're being *forced* into it -- ie, we fear being fired. (And obviously, we feel no obligation whatsoever toward someone who has bullied us into doing something wrong. We may even feel vengeful toward such a person.)
So if you say, "I think this is the wrong decision, but I'll do as I'm told anyway," an Xer hears, "I disrespect you so much I won't even do you the courtesy of insisting on doing things the right way. Instead, I'll placate you, because you're too stupid and overemotional to even deserve a chance to change your mind."
To you, you were being respectful, but from an Xer POV, you were being disrespectful, and that's why you got outrage. The problem wasn't disagreeing at all -- the problem was saying you'd do as you were told anyway. I bet you would get much better reactions if you simply said, "I don't think this is the right decision," period.
But maybe not, because the flip side of the above is -- Xers do respect *experience*. To the point that if we only *think* there *might* be a problem, we won't say anything and will just do what the person whose experience we respect says. Yes, we do see "I *think* this *might* be the wrong decision" as pointless/rude nitpicking.
Xers need to learn to tolerate more "nitpicking," because it's not always as pointless as it might initially appear. But Boomers need to learn not to come off as placating, because Xers experience that as EXTREME disrespect. So your, "Don't plead," is right on -- but you need to add, "Don't say you're doing as you're told despite disagreement."
You'll probably get better results if you instead say, "I'm probably just nitpicking, but I feel an obligation to say that [describe the specifics] might be a problem."
Period. Absolutely *do not emphasize* or really even mention how you respect their authority and so you'll do it their way anyway! Go ahead and do that, if they don't listen to your "nitpicking" -- just don't say you're going to.
...
I think in trying to understand other generations, we need to remember one of S&H's main points: That each generation focuses on what went wrong for it, and tries to correct that in both society and in younger generations.
One example is as already mentioned: Xers were raised without respect for authority. Another example: Losts had a very strong prohibition against tattling. They so took it for granted that when directing the raising of Silents, they didn't think to encourage parents to teach kids not to tattle. The result was that Silents were raised without a prohibiton on tattling. And as Chas '88 pointed out on the TFT boards -- the tattling Silent is a stock character in films (he gave /9 to 5/ as an example), because such people are (or were when young) common IRL.
What Losts did have a problem with, and Silents were therefore raised with a strong prohibition on, is bullying. Silents were trained so intensely and so early in life not to bully that they grew up assuming not bullying was just instinctive. They taught little Xers not to tattle, but they didn't teach us not to bully. They didn't teach us how to be polite or how not to run roughshod over others without even meaning to. The result was that Xers have a serious problem with bullying. Just like the Lost.
Similarly...Xers, the Silents who controlled the culture around raising us, and the Boomers in between, all have as one of our values, "Don't talk about people behind their back." Not that we never do it, but we all recognize it as wrong and an attack. But Boomers have that prohibition so strongly that it didn't occur to them that Millennials needed to be taught this. They focused instead on teaching Millennials to express their feelings, but also not to hurt others' feelings. If you don't have the prohibition on backbiting, then the obvious way to both express your feelings and not hurt others' is: To express your negative feelings about someone *behind their back* rather than to their face.
And this is what Millennials do. For example, it was not until Millennials got online in large numbers that Livejournal (etc.) groups began popping up that were *specifically dedicated* to "ranting" about specific people or groups *behind their backs*.
Now since I was raised with the value not to do this, I could say: "Millennial culture is evil!" And I do feel outraged that Millennials do this, and I do think it's wrong. But well...Millennials were never taught *why* it's wrong. So here's why: This starts rumors that may *or may not* be true. Since it's behind the person's back, they aren't able to correct false rumors. And most people who hear that someone did or is a (fill in the blank) don't ask the person about it; they just change their behavior toward the person. The result is an environment in which people suddenly, mysteriously change their behavior toward you, and you never know why, you never know it's because of a false rumor, and so you never have the opportunity to correct the false rumor. That is why talking behind someone's back is at least an attack, and I would argue also wrong.
You as a Boomer already know all that -- but it's an example of what is needed. What Xers need from you, then, is a similar explanation as to why those of your values that you've noticed Xers lack, actually are valuable. Because we grew up without them and have no way of knowing.
In fact, I suspect such examples are one aspect of the elder Boomer's "Grey Champion" behavior.
Speaking only for myself: I have never hated Boomers, instead I've generally looked up to them and wished I'd lived through the times they did. But I don't understand them, and they often react badly to me.
The draft is a very Boomer perspective, and thus valuable for those who want to know what things look like to Boomers and why Boomers often react badly to Xers.
I had to laugh, though, because all the experiences you've had of "inexplicable hostility" from Xers, I've had from Boomers. It's a cultural clash, not one culture being evil. And I had to laugh again when you wrote about how easy it is to get along with Millennials...because sure it's easy. For Boomers. For Xers, no way.
I have had so many bad experiences with Millennials...and when I tried to explain this to a Millennial relative, he just took it as "Xers hate Millennials." (Sound familiar?)
Now to look at some of the specific cultural clashes you discuss.
You have had Xers accuse you of being disrespectful when you were trying to be respectful -- I have had Boomers do the same to me. Including one Boomer where I was bending over backwards to be respectful of both him and his opinion even though I disagreed, because I genuinely liked and admired him and usually agreed with him...yet he still became so enraged at me that he began announcing that if we'd been having this discussion in person, he'd physically beat me up. I still don't know what I did there.
I once had a Boomer boss *crying* as she asked why I treated a Silent coworker with more "respect" than I gave her. I was stunned and didn't know what to do or say, because I thought I had treated the Silent with BLATANT DISrespect, and her with respect. I gave her complete honesty -- to me, that's respect. Him, I placated and lied to and maneuvered around. Often in cahoots with her! To me, that's disrespect.
This suggests a possible explanation for your experiences of being treated with "respect" only to be attacked: You saw it as "respect," the Xer saw it as "disrespect."
Similarly, a possible explanation for Xer managers' sudden anger at you: You thought you were treating them with respect by saying, "I have to tell you I think this is the wrong decision, but after I've told you then I'll do it your way" -- but they took it as disrespect.
I think I understand why you see that as respect: It's respect for the manager's authority over you.
But, well, as Uzi (a fellow 1979 Xer) said on the Fourth Turning boards...Xers were raised without respect for authority. (It's not that we have no morals at all, we just have different morals than Boomers. If we had no morals at all, we would never get outraged, but as you know from experience, we do.)
I guess in Boomer culture, a person can happily do something they are sure is the wrong decision, if they have respect for the authority figure who told them to do it. That is foreign to Xers. From an Xer POV, if you *really* think it's the wrong decision, you'll refuse to do it. From an Xer POV, the only reason to ever do something you think is a bad idea is if someone directly forces you into it because they both can threaten you into it (can beat you up, can fire you, etc.) and also are too stupid and/or overemotional to listen to reason. Xers only ever obey authority figures we've expressed disagreement with if we're being *forced* into it -- ie, we fear being fired. (And obviously, we feel no obligation whatsoever toward someone who has bullied us into doing something wrong. We may even feel vengeful toward such a person.)
So if you say, "I think this is the wrong decision, but I'll do as I'm told anyway," an Xer hears, "I disrespect you so much I won't even do you the courtesy of insisting on doing things the right way. Instead, I'll placate you, because you're too stupid and overemotional to even deserve a chance to change your mind."
To you, you were being respectful, but from an Xer POV, you were being disrespectful, and that's why you got outrage. The problem wasn't disagreeing at all -- the problem was saying you'd do as you were told anyway. I bet you would get much better reactions if you simply said, "I don't think this is the right decision," period.
But maybe not, because the flip side of the above is -- Xers do respect *experience*. To the point that if we only *think* there *might* be a problem, we won't say anything and will just do what the person whose experience we respect says. Yes, we do see "I *think* this *might* be the wrong decision" as pointless/rude nitpicking.
Xers need to learn to tolerate more "nitpicking," because it's not always as pointless as it might initially appear. But Boomers need to learn not to come off as placating, because Xers experience that as EXTREME disrespect. So your, "Don't plead," is right on -- but you need to add, "Don't say you're doing as you're told despite disagreement."
You'll probably get better results if you instead say, "I'm probably just nitpicking, but I feel an obligation to say that [describe the specifics] might be a problem."
Period. Absolutely *do not emphasize* or really even mention how you respect their authority and so you'll do it their way anyway! Go ahead and do that, if they don't listen to your "nitpicking" -- just don't say you're going to.
...
I think in trying to understand other generations, we need to remember one of S&H's main points: That each generation focuses on what went wrong for it, and tries to correct that in both society and in younger generations.
One example is as already mentioned: Xers were raised without respect for authority. Another example: Losts had a very strong prohibition against tattling. They so took it for granted that when directing the raising of Silents, they didn't think to encourage parents to teach kids not to tattle. The result was that Silents were raised without a prohibiton on tattling. And as Chas '88 pointed out on the TFT boards -- the tattling Silent is a stock character in films (he gave /9 to 5/ as an example), because such people are (or were when young) common IRL.
What Losts did have a problem with, and Silents were therefore raised with a strong prohibition on, is bullying. Silents were trained so intensely and so early in life not to bully that they grew up assuming not bullying was just instinctive. They taught little Xers not to tattle, but they didn't teach us not to bully. They didn't teach us how to be polite or how not to run roughshod over others without even meaning to. The result was that Xers have a serious problem with bullying. Just like the Lost.
Similarly...Xers, the Silents who controlled the culture around raising us, and the Boomers in between, all have as one of our values, "Don't talk about people behind their back." Not that we never do it, but we all recognize it as wrong and an attack. But Boomers have that prohibition so strongly that it didn't occur to them that Millennials needed to be taught this. They focused instead on teaching Millennials to express their feelings, but also not to hurt others' feelings. If you don't have the prohibition on backbiting, then the obvious way to both express your feelings and not hurt others' is: To express your negative feelings about someone *behind their back* rather than to their face.
And this is what Millennials do. For example, it was not until Millennials got online in large numbers that Livejournal (etc.) groups began popping up that were *specifically dedicated* to "ranting" about specific people or groups *behind their backs*.
Now since I was raised with the value not to do this, I could say: "Millennial culture is evil!" And I do feel outraged that Millennials do this, and I do think it's wrong. But well...Millennials were never taught *why* it's wrong. So here's why: This starts rumors that may *or may not* be true. Since it's behind the person's back, they aren't able to correct false rumors. And most people who hear that someone did or is a (fill in the blank) don't ask the person about it; they just change their behavior toward the person. The result is an environment in which people suddenly, mysteriously change their behavior toward you, and you never know why, you never know it's because of a false rumor, and so you never have the opportunity to correct the false rumor. That is why talking behind someone's back is at least an attack, and I would argue also wrong.
You as a Boomer already know all that -- but it's an example of what is needed. What Xers need from you, then, is a similar explanation as to why those of your values that you've noticed Xers lack, actually are valuable. Because we grew up without them and have no way of knowing.
In fact, I suspect such examples are one aspect of the elder Boomer's "Grey Champion" behavior.