by Navigator » Tue Mar 03, 2026 11:55 pm
DaKardii wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2026 12:08 am
How can we win this war when a large percentage of our population sees our government as irredeemable, and not worth defending? The short answer is, we can't. So how should our government respond?
I don't see the government as irredeemable. I do see a LOT of bad actors in government, but the system itself is still working.
There will be a lot of anti-government sentiment as the war with Iran drags on. And it has all the earmarks of dragging on.
Experience has shown that bombing alone is not going to change too much. It should take out production facilities (missile making, drone making, nuclear enrichment) that are not deeply buried, but the enemy will soon move everything there. Its what the Germans did in WW2. Unless the site is occupied, you can only set back manufacturing, not end it.
I think our best hope right now is for a civil war in Iran. We are evidently working with the Kurds in the Northwest of Iran, the Baluchi's in the eastern part of Iran, and with Shia minorities (along the Kuwait/southern Iraq border). In addition, it would be great if some of the regular Iranian military were to mutiny and fight against the IRGC. We also need to find a way to arm civilians so they can take on the Basij militia arm of the IRGC. Yes, this turns Iran into a basket case ala Syria for years.
It is just made all the worse by the fact that this action, which was definitely needed, was delayed for so so long. We should have acted back in the 1980s. If not over the embassy hostages, then over the Beirut bombings. At a minimum when they started to pursue nuclear technology.
As expected, the Iranians have said to have closed the Straits of Hormuz. Looking at maritime traffic maps, nothing is moving through there right now. Trump has authorized the insuring of shipping by the US government and the escort of shipping through the area, but I am not seeing anything moving yet. One ship hitting a mine and I think shipping will stop for quite a while. And yes, that would be an economic disruption the world is definitely not prepared for.
The other is destruction of oil facilities. While the Iranians strike at such vulnerable targets in their neighbors, their neighbors are vowing to retaliate. The IRGC at this point has nothing to lose by attacking Saudi/Kuwaiti/other Persian Gulf state facilities, as they are completely unable to export anything themselves, so their refineries and wells are no longer an asset.
The missile threats to Israel and others should soon be over, as the Iranians do have a limited stockpile, plus we are destroying launchers they need to use them with. But as Ukraine has shown, drones are another matter. They are going to continue to manufacture and use drones. Against oil facilities and against shipping.
The IRGC isn't going to roll over and give up their power and wealth. Unfortunately, bombing alone isn't going to fix it. Hopefully, Iranian opposition on the ground can, but it will be a slog.
Getting back to the original point, any minor foreign war strains the American body politic. The longer they go on, the worse this becomes.
BUT, when America itself is attacked, the majority (if not vast majority) rally to the flag and live up to the expectations of their forefathers. The US Constitution is still valid, and still the best form of government on earth.
[quote=DaKardii post_id=93597 time=1772510901 user_id=2550]
How can we win this war when a large percentage of our population sees our government as irredeemable, and not worth defending? The short answer is, we can't. So how should our government respond?
[/quote]
I don't see the government as irredeemable. I do see a LOT of bad actors in government, but the system itself is still working.
There will be a lot of anti-government sentiment as the war with Iran drags on. And it has all the earmarks of dragging on.
Experience has shown that bombing alone is not going to change too much. It should take out production facilities (missile making, drone making, nuclear enrichment) that are not deeply buried, but the enemy will soon move everything there. Its what the Germans did in WW2. Unless the site is occupied, you can only set back manufacturing, not end it.
I think our best hope right now is for a civil war in Iran. We are evidently working with the Kurds in the Northwest of Iran, the Baluchi's in the eastern part of Iran, and with Shia minorities (along the Kuwait/southern Iraq border). In addition, it would be great if some of the regular Iranian military were to mutiny and fight against the IRGC. We also need to find a way to arm civilians so they can take on the Basij militia arm of the IRGC. Yes, this turns Iran into a basket case ala Syria for years.
It is just made all the worse by the fact that this action, which was definitely needed, was delayed for so so long. We should have acted back in the 1980s. If not over the embassy hostages, then over the Beirut bombings. At a minimum when they started to pursue nuclear technology.
As expected, the Iranians have said to have closed the Straits of Hormuz. Looking at maritime traffic maps, nothing is moving through there right now. Trump has authorized the insuring of shipping by the US government and the escort of shipping through the area, but I am not seeing anything moving yet. One ship hitting a mine and I think shipping will stop for quite a while. And yes, that would be an economic disruption the world is definitely not prepared for.
The other is destruction of oil facilities. While the Iranians strike at such vulnerable targets in their neighbors, their neighbors are vowing to retaliate. The IRGC at this point has nothing to lose by attacking Saudi/Kuwaiti/other Persian Gulf state facilities, as they are completely unable to export anything themselves, so their refineries and wells are no longer an asset.
The missile threats to Israel and others should soon be over, as the Iranians do have a limited stockpile, plus we are destroying launchers they need to use them with. But as Ukraine has shown, drones are another matter. They are going to continue to manufacture and use drones. Against oil facilities and against shipping.
The IRGC isn't going to roll over and give up their power and wealth. Unfortunately, bombing alone isn't going to fix it. Hopefully, Iranian opposition on the ground can, but it will be a slog.
Getting back to the original point, any minor foreign war strains the American body politic. The longer they go on, the worse this becomes.
BUT, when America itself is attacked, the majority (if not vast majority) rally to the flag and live up to the expectations of their forefathers. The US Constitution is still valid, and still the best form of government on earth.