by DaKardii » Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:34 pm
Xeraphim1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:09 pm
DaKardii wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:30 pm
The DARPA leaks from January established that COVID
was created in the Wuhan lab, but the project behind it was both established and supervised by the US government, with the Chinese scientists working in the lab being junior partners. The leaks also established that COVID was
not intended to be a bioweapon from the outset, which means that the virus' release was due to rogue activity.
It is possible that the US government was behind the virus' release, and it's equally possible that the CCP was behind the virus' release. Both have motives for doing it. But in my humble opinion there is more circumstantial evidence in favor of the former being responsible.
As for the CCP's claim that the virus was brought into Wuhan from outside of China by the US Army, that has indeed been proven false. Which begs the question. Assuming that America was indeed responsible for the virus being released from the Wuhan lab, why would the CCP still intentionally lie and manufacture that other narrative instead?
My guess is that the CCP believes it cannot get out of this looking squeaky clean if it told the truth about what was going on at the Wuhan lab, regardless of who released the virus. Because either way, the CCP was still involved in the virus's very creation. So the CCP would rather tell a narrative where it was
not involved in the virus' creation in any way, rather than a narrative where it
was involved in the virus' creation but
not the one who released the virus.
The real irony about all this is that even if America was indeed responsible, the CCP
still ended up being the less honest one regarding what was going on at the Wuhan lab!
Let me get this straight, cutting edge genetic research and development on diseases was going on at a Chinese government owned laboratory and this was being done under the direct leadership of US personnel with Chinese scientists being the hired help? Does this sound the least bit realistic? Seriously? The Wuhan Institute of Virology is a level four biosafety lab and national governments do not let foreigners run programs at them. Particularly paranoid, xenophobic police states.
The actual claims are that the US, through NIH, was funding gain of function research along with the National Science Foundation of China. There are no claims that the US was directing this research and the idea that China would even allow such a thing is ridiculous.
China has lied about the origin of Covid 19 from the very start and has changed its story as some of the lies became completely untenable.
You really need to stop. Not only are the theories you're positing beyond the realm of fiction, they tend to suck the oxygen out of the room. You're becoming a net negative to the conversation. Please stop.
Xeraphim, please read my post again. I explicitly stated that China has been lying about the origin of COVID-19. I also provided an explanation as to why China would still lie about it even if America was indeed behind the virus "leaking" from the Wuhan lab. Furthermore, I stated that China still bears at least partial responsibility for the pandemic no matter who caused the "leak", because China was undisputedly involved in the virus' development.
The only major point of contention between us on this issue is which country we believe actually "leaked" the virus. And given that it's impossible to definitively prove who did it at this time, the only thing we can go with is circumstantial evidence. I made my own guess, and you made your own guess. And those guesses happen to be different. So let's agree to disagree on this, okay?
Meanwhile, I'll concede that it's possible that the National Science Foundation of China (NSFC) had more clout within the project than the DARPA leaks led me to believe. But I still refuse to believe that the NSFC could've taken up enough clout to the point where the NIH had little to no control over the project whatsoever, which is what you seem to be claiming (please correct me if I'm wrong here). The DARPA leaks make it very clear that the project was conceived by scientists working for the US government, and that the only reason China had any involvement to begin with was because those scientists were trying to find a way to get the project going while also complying with Obama's ban on gain-of-function research on American soil. Our scientists came to theirs for help, not the other way around.
[quote=Xeraphim1 post_id=69927 time=1647025779]
[quote=DaKardii post_id=69889 time=1646962253 user_id=2550]
The DARPA leaks from January established that COVID [i]was[/i] created in the Wuhan lab, but the project behind it was both established and supervised by the US government, with the Chinese scientists working in the lab being junior partners. The leaks also established that COVID was [i]not[/i] intended to be a bioweapon from the outset, which means that the virus' release was due to rogue activity.
It is possible that the US government was behind the virus' release, and it's equally possible that the CCP was behind the virus' release. Both have motives for doing it. But in my humble opinion there is more circumstantial evidence in favor of the former being responsible.
As for the CCP's claim that the virus was brought into Wuhan from outside of China by the US Army, that has indeed been proven false. Which begs the question. Assuming that America was indeed responsible for the virus being released from the Wuhan lab, why would the CCP still intentionally lie and manufacture that other narrative instead?
My guess is that the CCP believes it cannot get out of this looking squeaky clean if it told the truth about what was going on at the Wuhan lab, regardless of who released the virus. Because either way, the CCP was still involved in the virus's very creation. So the CCP would rather tell a narrative where it was [i]not[/i] involved in the virus' creation in any way, rather than a narrative where it [i]was[/i] involved in the virus' creation but [i]not[/i] the one who released the virus.
The real irony about all this is that even if America was indeed responsible, the CCP [i]still[/i] ended up being the less honest one regarding what was going on at the Wuhan lab!
[/quote]
Let me get this straight, cutting edge genetic research and development on diseases was going on at a Chinese government owned laboratory and this was being done under the direct leadership of US personnel with Chinese scientists being the hired help? Does this sound the least bit realistic? Seriously? The Wuhan Institute of Virology is a level four biosafety lab and national governments do not let foreigners run programs at them. Particularly paranoid, xenophobic police states.
The actual claims are that the US, through NIH, was funding gain of function research along with the National Science Foundation of China. There are no claims that the US was directing this research and the idea that China would even allow such a thing is ridiculous.
China has lied about the origin of Covid 19 from the very start and has changed its story as some of the lies became completely untenable.
You really need to stop. Not only are the theories you're positing beyond the realm of fiction, they tend to suck the oxygen out of the room. You're becoming a net negative to the conversation. Please stop.
[/quote]
Xeraphim, please read my post again. I explicitly stated that China has been lying about the origin of COVID-19. I also provided an explanation as to why China would still lie about it even if America was indeed behind the virus "leaking" from the Wuhan lab. Furthermore, I stated that China still bears at least partial responsibility for the pandemic no matter who caused the "leak", because China was undisputedly involved in the virus' development.
The only major point of contention between us on this issue is which country we believe actually "leaked" the virus. And given that it's impossible to definitively prove who did it at this time, the only thing we can go with is circumstantial evidence. I made my own guess, and you made your own guess. And those guesses happen to be different. So let's agree to disagree on this, okay?
Meanwhile, I'll concede that it's possible that the National Science Foundation of China (NSFC) had more clout within the project than the DARPA leaks led me to believe. But I still refuse to believe that the NSFC could've taken up enough clout to the point where the NIH had little to no control over the project whatsoever, which is what you seem to be claiming (please correct me if I'm wrong here). The DARPA leaks make it very clear that the project was conceived by scientists working for the US government, and that the only reason China had any involvement to begin with was because those scientists were trying to find a way to get the project going while also complying with Obama's ban on gain-of-function research on American soil. Our scientists came to theirs for help, not the other way around.