Greece and Immigration Controls - for itself - and for Europe

[Reality Check]

Greece, like the country of Turkey, is a country on two continents - both Europe and Asia ( the Middle East portion of Asia ).

Turkey is located primarily in the Middle East portion of the Asian mainland and it has a tiny portion of it's country across the Aegean Sea ( Across the Bosporus Strait ) on the main land of Europe.

Greece is a much more divided country, with it's mainland in Europe on the Western side of the Aegean Sea, and it's many many Islands, large and small islands, on both sides of the Aegean Sea, and in the Mediterranean Sea.

Many of Greek Islands are in Asia ( the Middle East portion of Asia ), on the Eastern ( Asian ) Side of the Aegean Sea, just off the coast of the Asian mainland ( the Middle East Portion of Asian mainland )and also just off the Coast of the Turkish portion of the Asian mainland.

The two Greek Islands ( of the many Greek Islands on the Eastern Side of the Aegean Sea, next to Turkey, all such islands being located in Asia ) that are most in the news are shown on the following maps along with their locations relative to the Greek mainland (Europe) and the Turkish mainland ( in the Middle East portion of Asia):

Greek Island of Kos: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kos/@ ... f8469bdcdd

Greek Island of Lesbos (also called Lesvos or Mitilini): https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lesbo ... 01b32663e7


Illegal aliens from Asia, have always crossed from the country of Turkey to the Greek Islands in small numbers and lived on the Island's economy as illegal aliens, or were placed in small refugee camps by the Greek authorities, until they voluntarily returned to Turkey on the small tourist ferries that run between the Turkish coastal islands ( under Greek soverignty ) or managed to be smuggled ( or sneak on to ) an Ocean going Greek Ferry traveling internally in Greece from one part of the country of Greece, to another portion of Greece, in this case from the Asian portion of Greece to the European mainland portion of Greece.

But something changed in the last year.

The Media started focusing on the refugee camps on these remote Islands and the Greek government came under pressure from the international community and the EU Elite to "properly deal with" these refugees. The time period when this change occurred over lapped with the time period the EU elites, and the International Monetary Fund, were deciding if the EU bail out of Greece's economy would be extended.

The Greek Government had a choice to make on how they could handle these refugees, it could require them to fill out an application for asylum in Greece, or it could allow them to apply for another type of of temporary residency, or permanent residency in Greece, or it could simply ignore their illegal status and allow them to board one of the Ocean going Greek ferries that would take the refugee from Asia to Europe within the country of Greece.

The problem for Greece with encouraging them to apply for asylum or to apply for a temporary/permanent Greek residency permit, was that Greece would either have to accept them, or reject them.

If Greece rejected any of those applications, Greece would be responsible for housing them, feeding them, and providing them medical care until they could be deported back to Turkey, if Turkey would even accept people who were not claiming to be Turkish citizens.

If Greece accepted them as war refugees or for temporary/permanent residency in Greece, they would have the right to stay in Greece, a country that was still in a deep economic crises with few jobs for Greece's own citizens. If accepted they would also be eligible for housing, food and medical care from the Greek government if they could not find jobs.

The problem for the refugees was that they did not want to live in a Greek refugee camp, nor did they want to try to look for a job in the depressed Greek economy, they wanted to go to Germany or Sweden.

The easiest solution for both the Greek Government and the Asian refugees was to simply allow the refugees to travel to Europe ( to the European portion of Greece ) on a Greek Ocean going ferry, and to also allow the Asian refugees to travel to the nearest non-Eu, and non-Schengen Area, country and have the Asian Refugee self deport themselves to the next country on their way to Central Europe, Northern Europe, or Western Europe ( where the refugees wanted to live).

For the Greek government this avoided any treaty obligations Greece, may, or may not have had to the country the refugees "self deported themselves to" when leaving Greece ( This would include avoiding obligations that Greece would have had under EU-Treaties, the Schengen Treaty, and/or EU laws that applied between two EU counties - or between two countries that were party to the Schengen Treaty - for the simple reason that the country the refugee was entering into ( when leaving Greece) was neither an EU country, nor a Schengen Area country, nor a party to the Schengen Treaty ). The major responsibility Greece was avoiding, would be the responsibilities to take the refugee back when said non-EU, non-Schengen country tried to deport them.

For the refugee this got them into Europe ( without having to make a dangerous illegal crossing of the Aegean Sea nor the Mediterranean Sea ) and sent them on their way to where they wanted to go in Central Europe, Northern Europe or Western Europe. It also allowed the refugee to apply for War Refuge Status in the Schengen Area country that was most likely to grant their application without having to wait months in detention to find out if your appeal might be accepted or rejected.

In practice the the European country that was crossed into from Greece, illegally, was Macedonia.

Why Turkey would not accept the refugees ( if they were claiming to be war refugees or economic refugees ) that almost certainly left the Turkish mainland and found a way onto the Turkish coastal Islands ( that have Greek sovereignty ) is not addressed by this post.

Now that this easy refugee route into Central Europe ( from the Middle East portion of Asia ) became clear to all people who want move to Europe and live there, over 6,000 refugees ( both economic refugees and war refugees ) started "appearing" on the Turkish Coastal Islands ( that are under Greece sovereignty ) for their immediate Ocean going ferry ride, on a Greek ocean going Ferry, across the Aegean Sea into Europe and their "Open Border" route through mainland Greece, through Macedonia, through Serbia and than going forward on one of the proven Open Border routes there after.

[John]

> If Greece rejected any of those applications, Greece would be
> responsible for housing them, feeding them, and providing them
> medical care until they could be deported back to Turkey, if
> Turkey would even accept people who were not claiming to be
> Turkish citizens.

They would not be deported back to Turkey, unless they were Turkish
citizens. They would be deported back to their countries of origin,
unless their asylum application were accepted.

[gerald]

What happens when a country swamped by asylum seekers can't support the seekers? --- blood in the streets?

[John]

> What happens when a country swamped by asylum seekers can't
> support the seekers? --- blood in the streets?

As Reality Check suggests, blood in the streets is a real possibility
-- not just in Greece, but in any of these countries.

[Reality Check]

If the following statement by John is correct in every aspect, then the incentive for Turkey, Greece, Macedonia and Serbia, or any country, to just push "potential war refugees" on to the next country would be even greater, if true, John's statement would make my point even stronger, but it is highly doubtful that international laws are designed to provide incentive for countries to push "potential war refugees" along from one country to the next, that is the kind of hostile act that spreads wars.

> If Greece rejected any of those applications, Greece would be
> responsible for housing them, feeding them, and providing them
> medical care until they could be deported back to Turkey, if
> Turkey would even accept people who were not claiming to be
> Turkish citizens.

They would not be deported back to Turkey, unless they were Turkish
citizens. They would be deported back to their countries of origin,
unless their asylum application were accepted.

If the preceding statement by John is correct in every aspect, then the incentive for Turkey, Greece, Macedonia and Serbia, or any country, to just push "potential war refugees" on to the next country would be even greater, if true, John's statement would make my point even stronger, but it is highly doubtful that international laws are designed to provide incentive for countries to push "potential war refugees" along from one country to the next, that is the kind of hostile act that spreads wars.

[John]

Deportations are to the country of origin. Many migrants are
destroying their passports, hoping that this will keep the EU from
deporting them.

The other issue is that international law requires that they be
deported to their "safe country of origin." Thus, there's a problem
if the country of origin is not safe, or if the country of origin
refuses to accept the deported migrant.

It makes no sense at all, under the law, to deport an Iraqi migrant
back to Turkey, just because the migrant traveled through Turkey to
reach the EU, since theoretically Turkey is just as much a victim as
the EU is. The migrant would have to be deported back to Iraq.

The EU is in total chaos about how to handle all these issues. One
plan they're considering is to set up "regional deportation centers"
in Africa and elsewhere, but that's just one more proposal that would
be condemned by "human rights" activists.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ntres.html