Turkey

[VinceP1974]

Regardless of what some will say, this is clearing building up to be a clash of civilizations that will turn into a global crisis even like the world has never seen. To get an idea of what it will be like, just imagine the "Crusades" with nukes!

or Ezekiel 38

[thomasglee]

Regardless of what some will say, this is clearing building up to be a clash of civilizations that will turn into a global crisis even like the world has never seen. To get an idea of what it will be like, just imagine the "Crusades" with nukes!

or Ezekiel 38

Exactly. You know, for the first time ever, a Jewish leader recently referred to Ezekiel 37 being fulfilled with the establishment of Israel as a nation - once again.

Doesn't Isaiah 17 have to occur before Ezekiel 38?

[VinceP1974]

Exactly. You know, for the first time ever, a Jewish leader recently referred to Ezekiel 37 being fulfilled with the establishment of Israel as a nation - once again.

Doesn't Isaiah 17 have to occur before Ezekiel 38?

So i was refreshing my memory about what Isaiah 17 was about, and I ran across this outline:

The Burden upon the Nations (13:l—23:18)
Babylon will be made desolate (13:l—14:27).
Philistia will howl over its calamity (14:28-32).
Moab is lamented for her doom (15:l—16:14).
Damascus and Samaria will be plagued (17:1-14).
Ethiopia [Cush] will be destroyed but left an access to God (18:1-7).
Egypt will be confounded but in the future will be part of the covenant with access (19:1—20:6).
Babylon’s fall is reiterated (21:1-10).
Edom is threatened (21:11,12).
Arabia has a set time for calamity (21:13-17).
Jerusalem will be invaded (22:1-25).
Tyre will be overthrown (23:1-18).

Moab is on the east of Jordan and the Dead Sea, and south of the Arnon
Cush is bordering Egypt, most dictionaries put it to the South, but some to the West , so either Sudan or Libya
Edom was wholly a mountainous country. It embraced the narrow mountainous tract (about 100 miles long by 20 broad) extending along the eastern side of the Arabah from the northern end of the Gulf of Elath to near the southern end of the Dead Sea.
Tyre is southern Lebanon

I would say they're (Isa 17 Ezekiel 38) descriptions of the same thing.

[thomasglee]

Exactly. You know, for the first time ever, a Jewish leader recently referred to Ezekiel 37 being fulfilled with the establishment of Israel as a nation - once again.

Doesn't Isaiah 17 have to occur before Ezekiel 38?

So i was refreshing my memory about what Isaiah 17 was about, and I ran across this outline:

The Burden upon the Nations (13:l—23:18)
Babylon will be made desolate (13:l—14:27).
Philistia will howl over its calamity (14:28-32).
Moab is lamented for her doom (15:l—16:14).
Damascus and Samaria will be plagued (17:1-14).
Ethiopia [Cush] will be destroyed but left an access to God (18:1-7).
Egypt will be confounded but in the future will be part of the covenant with access (19:1—20:6).
Babylon’s fall is reiterated (21:1-10).
Edom is threatened (21:11,12).
Arabia has a set time for calamity (21:13-17).
Jerusalem will be invaded (22:1-25).
Tyre will be overthrown (23:1-18).

Moab is on the east of Jordan and the Dead Sea, and south of the Arnon
Cush is bordering Egypt, most dictionaries put it to the South, but some to the West , so either Sudan or Libya
Edom was wholly a mountainous country. It embraced the narrow mountainous tract (about 100 miles long by 20 broad) extending along the eastern side of the Arabah from the northern end of the Gulf of Elath to near the southern end of the Dead Sea.
Tyre is southern Lebanon

I would say they're (Isa 17 Ezekiel 38) descriptions of the same thing.

Isa 17 and Ez 38 are different. The nations are different. I've eMailed you a link to an outline written by a friend and a man whose Biblical knowledge I trust immensely!

I would have posted it here, but some might take objection...

Isa 17 refers to the "Burden of Damascus" and Damascus being rendered a ruinous heap on which no man can tread (nuclear destruction?).

[VinceP1974]

Isa 17 and Ez 38 are different. The nations are different. I've eMailed you a link to an outline written by a friend and a man whose Biblical knowledge I trust immensely!

I would have posted it here, but some might take objection...

Isa 17 refers to the "Burden of Damascus" and Damascus being rendered a ruinous heap on which no man can tread (nuclear destruction?).

I know the Ez 38 nations are different, but just like the above list, they consist of all Muslim countries today.

The destruction of Bablyon in Isa 21 alludes to the one in Revelation and in Jeriamiah.

At the end of Isa 24 (the chapter that follows the above list of chapters) , it says:

The full moon will be covered up,
the bright sun will be darkened;
for the Lord who commands armies will rule
on Mount Zion in Jerusalem
in the presence of his assembly, in majestic splendor.


Those symbols (moon being covered, sun being darkened, and final defeat of God's enemy by God himself) are all over the bible and relate to the same event.

So I think Isaiah's list of nations were just a different viewpoint from the nations in Ezekiel 38. When you go through all the OT Prophecies, they all mention the same countries that neighbor Israel... all of them Islamic today

[VinceP1974]

Very long article from

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/temp ... p?CID=1430

Here's just a few paragraphs

What's Really behind Turkey's Coup Arrests?

By Soner Cagaptay
ForeignPolicy.com, February 25, 2010

For the last several decades, the Turkish military was untouchable; no one dared to criticize the military or its top generals, lest they risk getting burned. The Turkish Armed Forces were the ultimate protectors of founding father Kemal Ataturk's secular legacy, and no other force in the country could seriously threaten its supremacy. Not anymore.

[...]

A mountain has moved in Turkish politics. All shots against the military are now fair game, including those below the belt. The force behind this dramatic change is the Fethullah Gulen Movement (FGH), an ultraconservative political faction that backs the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP). The FGH was founded in the 1970s by Fethullah Gulen, a charismatic preacher who now lives in the United States but remains popular in Turkey. It is a conservative movement aiming to reshape secular Turkey in its own image, by securing the supremacy of Gulen's version of religion over politics, government, education, media, business, and public and personal life.

To some, it might appear that the newfound freedom to criticize the military proves that Turkey is becoming a more liberal democracy. But the truth is that Turkey has replaced one "untouchable" organization for another, more dangerous, one. Criticizing the Gulen movement, which controls the national police and its powerful domestic intelligence branch, and which exerts increasing influence in the judiciary, has become as taboo as assailing the military once was. Today, it is those who criticize the Gulen movement who get burned.

[...]

[VinceP1974]

Well it looks like Turkey is all upset at us.

Turkey Recalls Ambassador After US Vote On Armenia 'Genocide'
London Times ^ | David Byers

Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2010 4:10:25 PM by Steelfish

Turkey Recalls Ambassador After US Vote On Armenia 'Genocide'

David Byers

Turkey recalled its ambassador to Washington tonight after a congressional panel voted to label the massacre of Armenians in the First World War as "genocide", in developments that threatened to poison relations between the US and its closest Muslim ally.

Despite pressure to drop the matter by the Obama administration, the House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee voted 23-22 to approve the resolution, which calls on the US to formally refer to the massacre as genocide. The vote means that the resolution - which is non-binding - is now cleared for consideration by the full House.

Turkey had warned that its ties with the United States, and attempts to normalise relations with Armenia, would be damaged if the resolution were approved. Turkey and Armenia signed a protocol last year to normalise relations but it has yet to pass through the parliament of either country.

Frankly I don't know what to think about this. Yes, they committed this Genocide, but it was a hundred years ago.

But is it worth it to get them all upset over this? Does it mean we're giving into them if we don't mention it?

[thomasglee]

Frankly I don't know what to think about this. Yes, they committed this Genocide, but it was a hundred years ago. But is it worth it to get them all upset over this? Does it mean we're giving into them if we don't mention it?

Frankly, they're just looking for reasons to get upset at us. Currently Syria, Iran and the PA factions are keep claiming that Israel is making bellicose statements threatening war, when in reality it is they that are fueling the flames. It appears as if hooks have been placed in their jaws and they are going full steam ahead in their plans to conquer Israel even though they know in their heart of hearts it is impossible for them to win. Israel will nuke every country in the ME before they will allow themselves to be enslaved by the Muslim countries.

[VinceP1974]

Frankly, they're just looking for reasons to get upset at us

Oh yeah I'm certainly with you on that. So that's my dilemma... do we "do the right thing" (at least in terms of the Armenians..(we're so damn nice aren't we?)) and give them their excuse to go into hysterics? If we're going to get them upset, I think it should be over something that is important.

If we had some brilliant strategy to shame historical jihadist genocide , then it might be worth it,, but all our stupid government is going to do is make some declaration and then go back to bankrupting us.

[thomasglee]

...but all our stupid government is going to do is make some declaration and then go back to bankrupting us.

You said (typed) it!