Generational Dynamics World View News

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
FishbellykanakaDude
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Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

John wrote:... For what it's worth, here's what the CIA World Factbook says:
> English (official, the language generally used), Irish (Gaelic or
> Gaeilge) (official, spoken by approximately 39.8% of the
> population as of 2016; mainly spoken in areas along Ireland's
> western coast known as gaeltachtai, which are officially
> recognized regions where Irish is the predominant language)

> https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/ei.html
I'd LOVE to spend a couple of years in the Cork and/or Kerry Gaeltacht, as that's where "most-ish" of my (Irish) people are from, 'though the Fermoy area "seems" to have been the "seat" of most of my post-Norman/Belgian invasion folk.

For a good taste of how really "alien" the Gaeilge sounds, check this "soap opera" from TG4 Ireland:
Ros na Rún
FishbellykanakaDude wrote: > The Loyalists in The North will never relinquish their UK
> affiliation, so the only possibility for real "reunification" (as
> that's NOT the right word, but we'll leave that off for now) is
> for the Loyalists to emigrate "back" to the UK (likely only under
> some variety of duress).
Why isn't reunification the right word? Wasn't Ireland unified under
English rule prior to 1922?
Ireland, like any other "celtic" place, has never EVER been truly unified.

It's always been a land of shifting tribal affiliation, backstabbing, cross-border raiding as "political and popular entertainment", and "enemy of my enemy is my friend" alliance and maneuver. :) <chuckle!>

Those folks can be forced together into "a country" by external powers, but it's not their natural state of being.

But if ANYONE is a good example of how a "country" is a rather "highly viscous fluid" entity, where peoples flow in and shuffle up and flow out and keep right on going, it would be the Old Emerald Isle.
FishbellykanakaDude wrote: > There WILL be border "controls" between the Republic and Northern
> Ireland, and there WILL therefore be violence at those
> points.
That seems pretty certain, doesn't it.
FishbellykanakaDude wrote: ...

> A "fully Irish" Ireland will have to wait
> for at least 2 generations (44ish years) or more likely 4 or 5
> more generations (88 to 110 years), until the "cultural DNA" has
> attenuated sufficiently.
Now here we have a problem, because generations don't work that
way. In fact, generations work in the opposite way.

If two ordinary people have a bitter feud in their 20s, then forty
years later, when they're in the 60s, the memories of the feud would
have faded, and the two people will have reconciled. But it works the
opposite way with generations.


If two groups have a generational crisis war during the XX20s, then
forty years later, in the XX60s, the memory of the war may have faded
in the minds of the survivors, but for the generations growing up
after the war, the feud does not fade, but is renewed.
Now, there 'ya got me! :)
I believe that a significant part of the mechanism is as follows:

The survivors of the war are completely traumatized, and spend the rest of
their lives trying to make sure it never happens again.

However, as their children are growing up, there are inevitably stories about the
war, particularly bitter stories about the atrocities committed during
the war. And, not surprisingly, the children in each group never hear
about the atrocities committed by their parents, but only about the
atrocities committed by the parents of the children on the other side.

After the war, during the Recovery and Awakening eras, one side will
inevitably be economically better off than the other, and that adds to
the renewal of the "feud." In the following decades, the traumatized
survivors try to prevent anything serious from happening, but they're
only marginally successful, and once they're gone, a new full-scale
war breaks out.
That is what happens, and why, and is what will happen as regards Ireland,.. but the "heat" of the "ethnic divide" in Ireland has been reduced to nearly lower than room temperature.

There simply isn't the energy there, any more (thank Goodnie), to fuel a proper "civil race war" on the island.

Ireland has a weird capacity for dealing with "invaders" by not overly slowly, but not quickly, converting them into being "more native than the natives". The people of the receding ice, the "Fomorians", absorbed the "Partholonians", the first of the "far easterners", who "died off" (meaning, "were coalesced with") and absorbed the "Nemedians", the second of the "far easterners" (Caspian Sea area, apparently), who are followed by the "Bag Men", namely the "Fir Bolg" who were returning Nemedians who had "emigrated" to the east, who eventually absorbed the invading Tuatha De (Danann), yet more "easterners" but this time from not THAT far away (say "Iberia"), who thence in turn absorb the Milesians who then adsorb the Gaels.

..then the Nords, then the Normans, then the Scots, regionally, then the "English", then the "English" again, then again the English.. etc etc etc..

And this particular mish-mash we call "The Irish".

The chaotic impulse that is endemic in the Irish will always define them, whatever they look like, and their odd way of talking will increase and decrease, but will always be that "outside-ness" that links them together. (Gaeilge shows heavy signs of a non-indoeuropean language substrate.)

Éirinn go Brách!
... One thing I've noticed repeatedly is that people tell me that their
grandparents fought in WW II but they refuse to talk about it.

I believe that it's because they're ashamed of their own actions,
including such things as rape or torture, which are pretty common on
all sides in a generational crisis war.

After all, if you're a soldier and you see a lone girl, and you know that her brother or
father or uncle has just killed all your friends, why shouldn't you
rape her? What have you got to lose? (Ironically, her brother
killing all your friends is just an ordinary act of war, but you
raping her is a war crime. Go figure.) But of course those become
acts of shame when the war ends, but subjects of discussion when they
were committed by the other side.
Witness to dehumanization will do that.

John
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Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by John »

** 10-Aug-2019 Dehumanization
FishbellykanakaDude wrote: > Witness to dehumanization will do that.
Every generational crisis war creates two or three dehumanized
generations.

FishbellykanakaDude
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

John wrote:> ** 10-Aug-2019 World View: Ireland's immigrants
> A "fully Irish" Ireland will have to wait for at least ...
Guest wrote: > When Ireland is black and Pakistani, then unification will be ...
I'm trapped by one of my "operating principles" into being "unsupportedly optimistic" about Ireland,.. which is:

Everything that DOES happen happens for the best, EVENTUALLY.

..so, whatever Ireland turns into (possibly a colony of the Denmark/Fijian Confederacy) will be the best and only outcome possible.

But, in any case, I'm old and have no say in the matter anyway, so best wishes to all the "good" people out there pushing things this way and that, and most awful wishes to all the "bad" people pushing their various agendas!

And aloha nui my gangies! :) <shaka nui loa!>

utahbob
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Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by utahbob »

So you say that your family is on both sides -- the Nationalists
(descendants of the invaders) and the Republicans (the indigenous
Gaelics). So it must be a very interesting story about
why you fled to America.


Two quick bits of humor:
When I went back after to County Tyrone right after the "Good Friday Agreement," my cousins told me that they were going to take me to an integrated pub. Dumb me the American, I thought "wow, Africans immigrated here?" Nope, it was a place for young Roman Catholics and Protestants could drink, dance and a meet somebody of the opposite sex to "snogg."

My cousin (Roman Catholic) moved to America to marry his girlfriend (Protestant) due to the Sh&tstorm it generated. I helped him arrange the ceremony and to get everybody to calm down I threatened to get a Mormon Bishop or Jewish Rabbi to officiate. It was a non-denominational/secular wedding with a justice of the peace who officiated

John
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Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by John »

Lol!

John
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Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by John »

John wrote:** 10-Aug-2019 Dehumanization
FishbellykanakaDude wrote: > Witness to dehumanization will do that.
Every generational crisis war creates two or three dehumanized
generations.
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot
forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair,
against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. --
Aeschylus

FishbellykanakaDude
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

John wrote:
John wrote:** 10-Aug-2019 Dehumanization
FishbellykanakaDude wrote: > Witness to dehumanization will do that.
Every generational crisis war creates two or three dehumanized
generations.
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot
forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair,
against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. --
Aeschylus
I hate answering the mighty words of Aeschylus with a "Yup!",.. but,.. yup!

Existence is learning (or learning that you don't learn very well), and learning is suffering, so being is suffering.

That's the job description of having an "I" to talk to ourselves and others about.

One can either let the suffering plaque up and die OF it, or give it back from whence it came and live to see IT die.

...of course ya' still DIE,.. but you do so in a somewhat better mood! <chuckle!>

John
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Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by John »

** 11-Aug-2019 World View: Hong Kong protests - the tenth weekend

This is the tenth consecutive weekend of anti-Beijing demonstrations
in Hong Kong.

Among the analysts I've seen on tv, there are two opposing views about
how all this is all going to end.

One view is that an invasion by the mainland army is imminent.

The other view is that the protests will fizzle out a month from now
when the schools open and the protesters go back to class, and
then everything will go back to normal.

The two views aren't necessarily in conflict, as Beijing could wait to
see if the protests fizzle out, and then send in the army if they
don't.

FishbellykanakaDude
Posts: 1313
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

John wrote:... One view is that an invasion by the mainland army is imminent.

The other view is that the protests will fizzle out a month from now
when the schools open and the protesters go back to class, and
then everything will go back to normal.

The two views aren't necessarily in conflict, as Beijing could wait to
see if the protests fizzle out, and then send in the army if they
don't.
Or,.. the protests continue and the CCP does nothing, other than complain about the protests.

Time will tell, though.

Guest

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Guest »

John wrote: What are you babbling about? Most immigrants to Ireland are Polish,
and most of them are Catholic, just like the Irish. Only 1.3% of the
people in Ireland.
Better Muslims than Jews. Most of the Muslims I have had dealings with have kept their promises. Not a single Jew I have ever met has kept a promise or told the truth. Giving the choice between Jews and Muslims, I would chose Muslims every time.

Secular Muslims integrate. Religious ones generally don't. Secular Jews integrate, Orthodox Jews refuse to integrate and many London Jews do not even speak English. They live off of benefits and are extremely hostile to outsiders, especially Christians. Orthodox Jews are worse than Muslims.

Barely a day goes by that I don't read a story about how Jews are suffering, but what most of the media fails to report is how many Jews are part of radical ant-Muslim groups (Pamela Geller, Rebel Media, Daniel Pipes, etc.) in the UK and North America. It's the height of hypocrisy. The European public has caught on and has decided they dislike both groups.

I don't want to live with either. I also don't want to be ruled by either group. I want to live in a Christian nation (or at the very least, a secular one with European Christian standards).

In the battle between Jews and Muslims, I would opt out all together. That choice seems to be out of my hands now. Given the choice, I would rather move to countries that hate both groups. It's terrible that native white Europeans are being destroyed by both. It's tragic.

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