Generational Dynamics World View News

[Tom Mazanec]

America needs more precision missiles desperately:
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2019/03/p ... nough.html

[John]

** 12-Mar-2019 World View: Is China's economic boycott of South Korea thawing?

China's largest insurance company, Ping An Insurance, announced that
it will send 3,700 employees to South Korea as an incentive trip. The
employees will be arriving in groups of 50 over the next two months.

Why is this big news? It's news because such trips have been banned
by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) since March 2017, when the CCP
announced an extremely harsh boycott on Korea, in retaliation for the
Korean government's deployment of America's Terminal High Altitude
Area Defense (THAAD). The CCP boycott banned South Korean goods for
sale in China, South Korean pop stars and entertainers, and packaged
tours, cruise tours and charter flights to Korea.

So the Ping An Insurance incentive trip to South Korea is a clear
violation of the boycott, which means that the CCP must be lifting
some parts of the boycott. I'm going to guess that this is happening
because of pressure by Ping An employees who would not consider an
"incentive trip" to another Chinese city to be a particularly exciting
and motivating prospect.

In fact, the CCP has already lifted the ban on tour packages for some
cities. In October last year, 600 employees from Chinese cosmetics
brand Anya Cosmetics came to Korea on a corporate incentive tour.
Ping An's incentive trip includes stops at duty-free shops of Korea’s
second and third largest duty-free retailers, Shinsegae Duty Free and
Shilla Duty Free.

However, noticeably absent from Ping An's itinerary were visits to
retail shops for the largest, Lotte Duty Free, a subsidiary of South
Korea's multinational conglomerate Lotte Group. In 2017, Lotte agreed
to a land swap that allowed THAAD to be deployed on a piece of land
previously owned by the company. This enraged the Chinese government
so much that Lotte is not likely to be forgiven any time soon, even if
other parts of the boycott are lifted.

Historically, for many centuries, Korea was part of China's "tributary
system." Korea was not a colony of China, since it is not governed by
China. But Korea would pay a substantial tribute to China, often
consisting of gold or slaves. In return, China would guarantee not to
invade Korea, and would even promise to defend Korea from a foreign
enemy (usually Japan). Korea remained a tributary state until Japan
succeeded in colonizing Korea in 1912.

Although China did not govern or control Korea, it was required that
when China ordered Korea to do something, Korea would have to do
it, or risk being punished.

In the case of North Korea, president Kim Jong-un continued ballistic
missile and nuclear weapons tests, despite commands from China's
president Xi Jinping to stop them. As a result, China punished North
Korea by allowing the United Nations Security Council to adopt harsh
anti-North Korean sanctions.

In the case of South Korea, China ordered the government NOT to allow
the deployment of the American anti-missile system THAAD. South Korea
deployed the systems anyway, in reaction to the ballistic missile and
nuclear weapons tests by North Korea -- tests that ironically China
had tried to prevent. So the Chinese punished South Korea's
disobedience with the harsh boycott.

Now that time has passed, China has been reducing the punishments. In
the case of North Korea, China has been urging lifting the sanctions,
and has been supporting and accommodating large-scale cheating by the
North Koreans, particularly to import petroleum and export coal. In
the case of South Korea, we see limited lifting of the boycott,
presumably in response to demands by Chinese company employees, with
most of the boycott remaining in effect.

However, easing of the boycott is coming too late for many
South Korean companies.

Lotte's supermarket business Lotte Mart will soon exit North China's
Tianjin Municipality, leaving only three stores in the Chinese
mainland.

South Korean auto makers Kia Motors and its parent Hyundai Motor have
both announced that they are considering halting operations in some of
their plants in China.

Kia's sales in China fell 44% in 2017 following the CCP boycott of
South Korean products. Sales recovered only 9% in 2018.

Hyundai was once China's third-biggest auto brand Hyundai has the
capacity to produce more than 1.6 million vehicles in China, but only
sold 820,000 in 2017.

Hyundai and Kia are being affected not only by the boycott, but also
by generally declining auto sales in China, the world's biggest car
market. Sales of new vehicles declined in 2018 for the first time in
almost 30 years, amid falling consumption and a growing second-hand
sector.

--- Sources:

-- China’s Ping An Insurance to send 3,700 employees to Korea on
incentive trip
https://pulsenews.co.kr/view.php?year=2019&no=148650
(Pulse News, Korea)

-- Korea / Hyundai Motor / Kia considers plant closures in China
https://www.just-auto.com/news/kia-cons ... 87626.aspx
(Just Auto)

-- KIA considering China production halt amid sales slowdown
http://www.china.org.cn/business/2019-0 ... 557526.htm
(Xinhua, China)

-- Kia, Lotte failures reflect S.Korean firms' ignorance of Chinese
market: analyst
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1141723.shtml
(Global Times, China)

[CH86]

Xenakis' post to Bannon regarding the History of China vs Japan contains some delusional aspects. Notably the references to Japanese conduct during the war:

The Japanese were GOOD people in China during the war. Come on John and other Boomers, if Unit 731 and Shiro Ishii (the commander of the Unit) were such monsters and war criminals; how come nobody bothered to charge Him with war crimes after the war. The fact is that nobody charged him because there was no crime to report. Shiro Ishii in fact behaved impeccably in conduct with regards to the provisions of the Geneva Convention regarding prisoners of war.

[FishbellykanakaDude]

...Shiro Ishii in fact behaved impeccably in conduct with regards to the provisions of the Geneva Convention regarding prisoners of war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shir%C5%8D_Ishii

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

[Guest]

** 12-Mar-2019 World View: Is China's economic boycott of South Korea thawing?

China's largest insurance company, Ping An Insurance, announced that
it will send 3,700 employees to South Korea as an incentive trip. The
employees will be arriving in groups of 50 over the next two months.

Why is this big news? It's news because such trips have been banned
by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) since March 2017, when the CCP
announced an extremely harsh boycott on Korea, in retaliation for the
Korean government's deployment of America's Terminal High Altitude
Area Defense (THAAD). The CCP boycott banned South Korean goods for
sale in China, South Korean pop stars and entertainers, and packaged
tours, cruise tours and charter flights to Korea.

So the Ping An Insurance incentive trip to South Korea is a clear
violation of the boycott, which means that the CCP must be lifting
some parts of the boycott. I'm going to guess that this is happening
because of pressure by Ping An employees who would not consider an
"incentive trip" to another Chinese city to be a particularly exciting
and motivating prospect.

In fact, the CCP has already lifted the ban on tour packages for some
cities. In October last year, 600 employees from Chinese cosmetics
brand Anya Cosmetics came to Korea on a corporate incentive tour.
Ping An's incentive trip includes stops at duty-free shops of Korea’s
second and third largest duty-free retailers, Shinsegae Duty Free and
Shilla Duty Free.

However, noticeably absent from Ping An's itinerary were visits to
retail shops for the largest, Lotte Duty Free, a subsidiary of South
Korea's multinational conglomerate Lotte Group. In 2017, Lotte agreed
to a land swap that allowed THAAD to be deployed on a piece of land
previously owned by the company. This enraged the Chinese government
so much that Lotte is not likely to be forgiven any time soon, even if
other parts of the boycott are lifted.

Historically, for many centuries, Korea was part of China's "tributary
system." Korea was not a colony of China, since it is not governed by
China. But Korea would pay a substantial tribute to China, often
consisting of gold or slaves. In return, China would guarantee not to
invade Korea, and would even promise to defend Korea from a foreign
enemy (usually Japan). Korea remained a tributary state until Japan
succeeded in colonizing Korea in 1912.

Although China did not govern or control Korea, it was required that
when China ordered Korea to do something, Korea would have to do
it, or risk being punished.

In the case of North Korea, president Kim Jong-un continued ballistic
missile and nuclear weapons tests, despite commands from China's
president Xi Jinping to stop them. As a result, China punished North
Korea by allowing the United Nations Security Council to adopt harsh
anti-North Korean sanctions.

In the case of South Korea, China ordered the government NOT to allow
the deployment of the American anti-missile system THAAD. South Korea
deployed the systems anyway, in reaction to the ballistic missile and
nuclear weapons tests by North Korea -- tests that ironically China
had tried to prevent. So the Chinese punished South Korea's
disobedience with the harsh boycott.

Now that time has passed, China has been reducing the punishments. In
the case of North Korea, China has been urging lifting the sanctions,
and has been supporting and accommodating large-scale cheating by the
North Koreans, particularly to import petroleum and export coal. In
the case of South Korea, we see limited lifting of the boycott,
presumably in response to demands by Chinese company employees, with
most of the boycott remaining in effect.

However, easing of the boycott is coming too late for many
South Korean companies.

Lotte's supermarket business Lotte Mart will soon exit North China's
Tianjin Municipality, leaving only three stores in the Chinese
mainland.

South Korean auto makers Kia Motors and its parent Hyundai Motor have
both announced that they are considering halting operations in some of
their plants in China.

Kia's sales in China fell 44% in 2017 following the CCP boycott of
South Korean products. Sales recovered only 9% in 2018.

Hyundai was once China's third-biggest auto brand Hyundai has the
capacity to produce more than 1.6 million vehicles in China, but only
sold 820,000 in 2017.

Hyundai and Kia are being affected not only by the boycott, but also
by generally declining auto sales in China, the world's biggest car
market. Sales of new vehicles declined in 2018 for the first time in
almost 30 years, amid falling consumption and a growing second-hand
sector.

--- Sources:

-- China’s Ping An Insurance to send 3,700 employees to Korea on
incentive trip
https://pulsenews.co.kr/view.php?year=2019&no=148650
(Pulse News, Korea)

-- Korea / Hyundai Motor / Kia considers plant closures in China
https://www.just-auto.com/news/kia-cons ... 87626.aspx
(Just Auto)

-- KIA considering China production halt amid sales slowdown
http://www.china.org.cn/business/2019-0 ... 557526.htm
(Xinhua, China)

-- Kia, Lotte failures reflect S.Korean firms' ignorance of Chinese
market: analyst
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1141723.shtml
(Global Times, China)

Middle and upper class Chinese do not buy Chinese products. No way. They buy foreign products from Europe, Japan, The US, or South Korea. South Korea produces top notch appliances, televisions, clothing, cars, and even pharma, especially pharma. The Chinese know their products are all toxic and low grade. Only the poor Chinese buy Chinese.

As for vacations, the Chinese want to vacation abroad so that they can smuggle out money, or even escape China and never look back.

China is a toxic and corrupt hell hole. The poor hate it. Pollution has already taken 7-8 years off of their lifespans, and they know it. Many Chinese men will never find a wife, and they know it. The Chinese government is controlled by two-bit gangsters, and the Chinese know it.

The moneyed Chinese just want to leave and never go back.

[John]

** 13-Mar-2019 Russia-China relations run into problems again

Russia's president Vladimir Putin has been pursuing an "honor among
thieves" relationship with China's Xi Jinping for several years, as
they support each other's illegal activities with vetoes in the UN
Security Council. Furthermore, under pressure from European
sanctions, Putin is anxious to showcase his relationship with Xi as a
counterweight.

However, China does much to show its disdain for the Russians. China
is posing a threat to Russia's Far East, and Russia has been shut out
of infrastructure projects in countries that are part of China's Belt
and Road Initiative (BRI).

In the last month a new division has opened up. China's embassy in
Moscow sent a message to a Russian journalist who had written articles
analyzing the slowdown in China's economy, and its consequences for
Russia. The articles had been posted on the web site for Nezavisimaya
Gazeta (NG), and in the message, the embassy ordered the journalist to
remove the articles from the website. The embassy message rebuked the
growing discontent in Russian society, which Putin has allegedly
failed to quell. The message threatened to blacklist the journalist
and prevent him from visiting China.

Although NG is not an official Russian government publication, it's
presumably aligned with Russian policy, and its response presumably
had the permission of the Russian government.

In response, NG published an editorial:

"In Russia, many consider the current cooperation with
Beijing as a continuation of the golden period of the
Soviet-Chinese friendship of the middle of the last
century. However, in reality, not all Chinese officials today
respect Russian laws and regard Russians as equal partners. Among
Chinese officials, there are those who consider it permissible to
ponder the Russians, threaten us and openly show disrespect for
Russian laws.

Someone in the Russian Federation may consider such an attitude of
the Chinese towards us as evil slander or fiction. Until recently,
Nezavisimaya Gazeta employees also thought so. Until they
themselves were faced with the unprecedented interference of the
Chinese Embassy in the work of the NG editorial board.

Recently, Chinese embassy officials have openly demanded that
materials based on open statistical data, including state Chinese
statistics, be removed from publication. At the same time,
diplomats are very non-diplomatic about the president of the
Russian Federation, about the potential of Russia, and even openly
threaten NG employees with certain blacklists."

The editorial went on to accuse the Chinese embassy of violating
Russian laws.

This is a "small incident," and may pass quickly. But maybe not. NG
has published additional articles on China's economy, and now that
it's been threatened, it may publish more. China, on the other hand,
becomes furious when one of its tributary states does not obey orders,
so the Chinese may escalate the punishment.

Ultimately, this is not about a confrontation between a reporter and
the Chinese embassy. It's about the relationship between Putin and
Xi. Putin has been sucking up the Xi, and may do so again by ordering
NG to back off. Or may Putin would like to show that he's able to
stand up to China, and will allow the confrontation to continue.

The Russians have hated the Chinese ever since the Mongols defeated
the Chinese in 1206, and then went on to attack and conquer almost all
the Russian principalities, and made them bitter vassals of the Mongol
Empire, in a relationship called the "Mongol Yoke." This hated
period, two centuries long, has defined the relationship between the
Russian and Chinese people forever. There is no possibility that
China and Russia will remain "strategic partners" for long. In fact,
Soviet Russia and China almost went to full-scale war as recently as
the 1960s.

China and Russia developed a close relationship in the 1920s. After
Germany lost World War I, China demanded that Western nations,
especially Germany, relinquish all Chinese territories they had gained
under "unequal treaties," and in fact demanded that the unequal
treaties be annulled. Instead, under the "Versailles betrayal" at the
Paris peace conference that settled World War I, Japan received
control of some of the German territories (Shandong province) under
the "fine print" of the unequal treaties. Neither China nor the
United States signed the Versailles agreement, and the US helped China
take Shandong province back from Japan two years later.

However, what was most significant to the Chinese was that in March
1919, while negotiations were still ongoing, Soviet Russia renounced
Russian rights and privileges to all the capitulations that had been
awarded to countries from China. This created a very favorable
attitude among the Chinese people towards the new Soviet State.
Furthermore, Chinese intellectuals began to see communism as a weapon
-- a weapon to combat militarism and imperialism of the West.

The Third Communist International (The Comintern) was formed by Russia
in March 1919 in order to control all communist parties around the
world, and did so until Stalin dissolved in in May 1943, and
transferred its activities to other organizations. The Chinese
Communist Party (CCP) was formed in 1921, and became a member of the
Moscow Comintern.

In the decades that followed, tensions grew in China between the
Nationalists, led by Chiang Kai-shek, and the Communists, led by Mao
Zedong. When the Communists won the civil war and announced the
Communist People's Republic of China in 1949, it was the beginning of
a "golden age" of friendship between China and Soviet Russia.

The golden age didn't last long. The Amur River that forms part of
the border between China and Russia's Far East has been the site of
wars between the two people for centuries. On March 2, 1969, border
units of the Soviet Union and China clashed on Damansky Island, in the
middle of the Amur River. Militarily, the Damansky Incident was a
small operation, but symbolically and politically it's been extremely
important. The fighting generated worldwide concern, over fears that
China and Russia would escalate the fight into nuclear war. The
United States sided with China in the clash, causing China to have
much more favorable relations with the US. In fact, this incident is
thought to be the trigger that led to President Richard Nixon and
Henry Kissinger successfully developing diplomatic relations with
China in 1971.

The biggest shock to China-Russia relations occurred in 1991, when the
Soviet Union collapsed, along with the Russian Communist Party. Since
the CCP had modeled itself after the Russian party, this was a blow
that sent the CCP officials into total panic, and has led to the
paranoia and the destructive and self-destructive policies of the CCP
being practiced today.

This is the context in which the clash between Nezavisimaya Gazeta
(NG) and China's Moscow embassy is occurring. Whether this clash
escalates depends on how much Putin and Xi wish to continue pretending
that they like each other.

Generational Dynamics predicts that, in the approaching Clash of
Civilizations world war, the US, Japan, India, Russia, Iran and the
West will be pitted against China, Pakistan, and the Sunni Muslim
countries.

--- Sources:

-- 'Serious' rivalry still drives China-Russia relations despite
improving ties
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/china-r ... aince.html
(CNBC, 14-Sep-2018)


-- Hidden Animus in the Russia-China Friendship
https://jamestown.org/program/hidden-an ... riendship/
(Jamestown)

-- Russia / Chinese diplomat threatens NG journalist with blacklisting
http://www.ng.ru/world/2019-03-04/2_7523_china.html
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... china.html
(Nezavisimaya Gazeta (NG), and translation)


-- China is preparing for hard times
http://www.ng.ru/economics/2019-03-05/1_7524_china.html
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... china.html
(Nezavisimaya Gazeta (NG), and translation)


--- Related:

** 23-Oct-18 World View -- Trump targets China by cancelling arms control treaty with Russia
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e181023



** 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e180721



** 31-Mar-18 World View -- Russia's Far East, Siberia and Vladivostok under threat from China
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e180331



** 27-Jan-17 World View -- China places missiles on Russia's border -- to gain respect and attack America
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e170127

[John]

** 13-Mar-2019 Russia-China relations run into problems again

Russia's president Vladimir Putin has been pursuing an "honor among
thieves" relationship with China's Xi Jinping for several years, as
they support each other's illegal activities with vetoes in the UN
Security Council. Furthermore, under pressure from European
sanctions, Putin is anxious to showcase his relationship with
Xi as a counterweight.

However, China does much to show its disdain for the Russians.
China is posing a threat to Russia's Far East, and Russia
has been shut out of infrastructure projects in countries that
are part of China's Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

In the last month a new division has opened up. China's embassy in
Moscow sent a message to a Russian journalist who had written articles
analyzing the slowdown in China's economy, and its consequences for
Russia. The articles had been posted on the web site for Nezavisimaya
Gazeta (NG), and in the message, the embassy ordered the journalist to
remove the articles from the website. The embassy message rebuked the
growing discontent in Russian society, which Putin has allegedly
failed to quell. The message threatened to blacklist the journalist
and prevent him from visiting China.

Although NG is not an official Russian government publication, it's
presumably aligned with Russian policy, and its response presumably
had the permission of the Russian government.

In response, NG published an editorial:

"In Russia, many consider the current cooperation with
Beijing as a continuation of the golden period of the
Soviet-Chinese friendship of the middle of the last
century. However, in reality, not all Chinese officials today
respect Russian laws and regard Russians as equal partners. Among
Chinese officials, there are those who consider it permissible to
ponder the Russians, threaten us and openly show disrespect for
Russian laws.

Someone in the Russian Federation may consider such an attitude of
the Chinese towards us as evil slander or fiction. Until recently,
Nezavisimaya Gazeta employees also thought so. Until they
themselves were faced with the unprecedented interference of the
Chinese Embassy in the work of the NG editorial board.

Recently, Chinese embassy officials have openly demanded that
materials based on open statistical data, including state Chinese
statistics, be removed from publication. At the same time,
diplomats are very non-diplomatic about the president of the
Russian Federation, about the potential of Russia, and even openly
threaten NG employees with certain blacklists."

The editorial went on to accuse the Chinese embassy of violating Russian
laws.

This is a "small incident," and may pass quickly. But maybe not.
NG has published additional articles on China's economy, and now
that it's been threatened, it may publish more. China, on the other
hand, becomes furious when one of its tributary states does not
obey orders, so the Chinese may escalate the punishment.

Ultimately, this is not about a confrontation between a reporter and
the Chinese embassy. It's about the relationship between Putin and
Xi. Putin has been sucking up the Xi, and may do so again by ordering
NG to back off. Or may Putin would like to show that he's able to
stand up to China, and will allow the confrontation to continue.

The Russians have hated the Chinese ever since the Mongols defeated
the Chinese in 1206, and then went on to attack and conquer almost all
the Russian principalities, and made them bitter vassals of the Mongol
Empire, in a relationship called the "Mongol Yoke." This hated
period, two centuries long, has defined the relationship between the
Russian and Chinese people forever. There is no possibility that
China and Russia will remain "strategic partners" for long. In fact,
Soviet Russia and China almost went to full-scale war as recently as
the 1960s.

China and Russia developed a close relationship in the 1920s. After
Germany lost World War I, China demanded that Western nations,
especially Germany, relinquish all Chinese territories they had gained
under "unequal treaties," and in fact demanded that the unequal
treaties be annulled. Instead, under the "Versailles betrayal" at the
Paris peace conference that settled World War I, Japan received
control of some of the German territories (Shandong province) under
the "fine print" of the unequal treaties. Neither China nor the
United States signed the Versailles agreement, and the US helped China
take Shandong province back from Japan two years later.

However, what was most significant to the Chinese was that in March
1919, while negotiations were still ongoing, Soviet Russia renounced
Russian rights and privileges to all the capitulations that had been
awarded to countries from China. This created a very favorable
attitude among the Chinese people towards the new Soviet State.
Furthermore, Chinese intellectuals began to see communism as a weapon
-- a weapon to combat militarism and imperialism of the West.

The Third Communist International (The Comintern) was formed by Russia
in March 1919 in order to control all communist parties around the
world, and did so until Stalin dissolved in in May 1943, and
transferred its activities to other organizations. The Chinese
Communist Party (CCP) was formed in 1921, and became a member of the
Moscow Comintern.

In the decades that followed, tensions grew in China between the
Nationalists, led by Chiang Kai-shek, and the Communists, led by Mao
Zedong. When the Communists won the civil war and announced the
Communist People's Republic of China in 1949, it was the beginning of
a "golden age" of friendship between China and Soviet Russia.

The golden age didn't last long. The Amur River that forms part of
the border between China and Russia's Far East has been the site of
wars between the two people for centuries. On March 2, 1969, border
units of the Soviet Union and China clashed on Damansky Island, in the
middle of the Amur River. Militarily, the Damansky Incident was a
small operation, but symbolically and politically it's been extremely
important. The fighting generated worldwide concern, over fears that
China and Russia would escalate the fight into nuclear war. The
United States sided with China in the clash, causing China to have
much more favorable relations with the US. In fact, this incident is
thought to be the trigger that led to President Richard Nixon and
Henry Kissinger successfully developing diplomatic relations with
China in 1971.

The biggest shock to China-Russia relations occurred in 1991, when the
Soviet Union collapsed, along with the Russian Communist Party. Since
the CCP had modeled itself after the Russian party, this was a blow
that sent the CCP officials into total panic, and has led to the
paranoia and the destructive and self-destructive policies of the CCP
being practiced today.

This is the context in which the clash between Nezavisimaya Gazeta
(NG) and China's Moscow embassy is occurring. Whether this clash
escalates depends on how much Putin and Xi wish to continue pretending
that they like each other.

Generational Dynamics predicts that, in the approaching Clash of
Civilizations world war, the US, Japan, India, Russia, Iran and
the West will be pitted against China, Pakistan, and the Sunni
Muslim countries.

--- Sources:

-- 'Serious' rivalry still drives China-Russia relations despite
improving ties
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/china-r ... aince.html
(CNBC, 14-Sep-2018)


-- Hidden Animus in the Russia-China Friendship
https://jamestown.org/program/hidden-an ... riendship/
(Jamestown)

-- Russia / Chinese diplomat threatens NG journalist with blacklisting
http://www.ng.ru/world/2019-03-04/2_7523_china.html
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... china.html
(Nezavisimaya Gazeta (NG), and translation)


-- China is preparing for hard times
http://www.ng.ru/economics/2019-03-05/1_7524_china.html
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... china.html
(Nezavisimaya Gazeta (NG), and translation)


--- Related:

** 23-Oct-18 World View -- Trump targets China by cancelling arms control treaty with Russia
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e181023



** 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e180721



** 31-Mar-18 World View -- Russia's Far East, Siberia and Vladivostok under threat from China
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e180331



** 27-Jan-17 World View -- China places missiles on Russia's border -- to gain respect and attack America
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e170127

[Useless degree]

The relationship between China and the USSR was bumpy from the beginning. The Soviets in 1917-1918 had promised to return their section of the Manchurian Railroad to China, but within months the Russian communists backtracked and decided to keep it. President Sun Yet Sun was publicly humiliated.
The Czarist Russians had used massive levels of fraud to seize control of the railway system, and the Soviets decided that interests were interests. So, the Chinese attitudes towards even the communists Russians has always been shaky.

[John]

> The relationship between China and the USSR was bumpy from the
> beginning. The Soviets in 1917-1918 had promised to return their
> section of the Manchurian Railroad to China, but within months the
> Russian communists backtracked and decided to keep it. President
> Sun Yet Sun was publicly humiliated.

> The Czarist Russians had used massive levels of fraud to seize
> control of the railway system, and the Soviets decided that
> interests were interests. So, the Chinese attitudes towards even
> the communists Russians has always been shaky.

Thanks for the information.

In 1917-18 Russia was aligned with Britain and Japan in retaining the
concessions they had gained through "unequal treaties" with China and
"secret agreements" about China. China viewed the Russians the same
as the other Western nations.

However, as I understand it, there was a big change in March 1919 when
Russia voluntarily relinquished all its rights and privileges, and
this caused Chinese attitudes to view Russia differently than Western
nations. But as you say, relations remained bumpy, especially between
the communists and nationalists, eventually leading to a civil war.

[Useless degree]

> The relationship between China and the USSR was bumpy from the
> beginning. The Soviets in 1917-1918 had promised to return their
> section of the Manchurian Railroad to China, but within months the
> Russian communists backtracked and decided to keep it. President
> Sun Yet Sun was publicly humiliated.

> The Czarist Russians had used massive levels of fraud to seize
> control of the railway system, and the Soviets decided that
> interests were interests. So, the Chinese attitudes towards even
> the communists Russians has always been shaky.

Thanks for the information.

In 1917-18 Russia was aligned with Britain and Japan in retaining the
concessions they had gained through "unequal treaties" with China and
"secret agreements" about China. China viewed the Russians the same
as the other Western nations.

However, as I understand it, there was a big change in March 1919 when
Russia voluntarily relinquished all its rights and privileges, and
this caused Chinese attitudes to view Russia differently than Western
nations. But as you say, relations remained bumpy, especially between
the communists and nationalists, eventually leading to a civil war.

The Soviets didn't give up their section of the MR until after WW2.