1-Jan-19 World View -- Generational Dynamics 2019 Forecast: The Camel versus the Can / Future of Generational Dynamics

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
bluebird
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Re: 1-Jan-19 World View -- Generational Dynamics 2019 Forecast: The Camel versus the Can / Future of Generational Dynami

Post by bluebird »

John, because you write articles on Generational Dynamics, you understand what is coming next. I am 70, I get it too. Because of you, I value what you write about. Thanks, and hope you continue your writings.

John
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Re: 1-Jan-19 World View -- Generational Dynamics 2019 Forecast: The Camel versus the Can / Future of Generational Dynami

Post by John »

bluebird wrote: > John, because you write articles on Generational Dynamics, you
> understand what is coming next. I am 70, I get it too. Because of
> you, I value what you write about. Thanks, and hope you continue
> your writings.
Thanks. I intend to, as long as I can.

FishbellykanakaDude
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Re: 1-Jan-19 World View -- Generational Dynamics 2019 Forecast: The Camel versus the Can / Future of Generational Dynami

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

John-O... :)

Suicide isn't forbidden, but it is discouraged, because it degrades the value of suffering,.. and suffering is a high value "thing" from the viewpoint of "humanity".

So, why should anyone endure suffering for the benefit of this "humanity" thing?

That depends on how much one values that "humanity" thing, and our own value.

We show how much we value humanity, and our own living (not "life"), BY suffering.

That's "just the way it is", and I have no problem whatsoever with anyone choosing an end to their suffering by their own hand, while necessarily and simultaneously flipping off (so to speak) humanity and devaluing their own previous life in the process.

As an Irish Catholic Tengriist <chuckle!>, my existential perspective (!?) is that the OPPORTUNITY to suffer (aka: being a living being) is to be embraced as a warrior's quest so as to show our "Sky Father" (and the rest of the Sky Fam, as it were) that I value the gift of "doing life" such that my "spirit" will be a worthy contribution to the accumulated "Sky Family" spirit that grows throughout time.

My Irish part (which is older than the "Celtic" part) says to me, "Be a good hunter, wanderer, and warrior and grow your part of humanity." (( The "Celtic" part talks mostly of various warrior-oriented things. ))

My Catholic part says to me, "Your part of humanity is larger than just your immediate people, and finding peace between those parts grows the value of the greater humanity."

My Tengriist part says to me, "All life and pre-life is striving to produce those beings which will bring the most beauty to the universe, and your 'Sky Family', to which your actions contribute, direct and support to that cause, so appreciate your place in that."

A (singular) human life is worthless in the same way that a single piece of fruit is worthless.

A starving man can be kept alive by a single piece of fruit long enough to be "rescued" and go on to be an important contributor to improving the beauty (true advancement) of the world.

But,.. we can't know the value of any fruit, or life, until after it's been "consumed".

..and that's why I'm of the "School of μολὼν λαβέ". "Come and take it!"

My "job", like Job's job (as it were), is to feed the Family while I can, and assist that which assists me and "my beauty" to be a part of the upcoming most beautiful bringers of beauty.

My job is not to seek comfort and pleasure. 'Though it's not to run away from them, either. :)

If I'm sincerely "hurting too much" in my suffering I'm fully allowed to bow out gracefully so as to be with my family, who will understand the effort I did expend for "the cause".

..and that's why SINCERITY (and it's corollary: CONTRITION) are so important to "the ancient ways" of Irishness, Catholicism, and Tengriism.


(( Catholicism is actually just a special case of Tengriism, but that's another train of thought for another time. ))

Aloha! :) <shaka nui!>

John
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Re: 1-Jan-19 World View -- Generational Dynamics 2019 Forecast: The Camel versus the Can / Future of Generational Dynami

Post by John »

FishbellykanakaDude wrote: > Suicide isn't forbidden, but it is discouraged, because it
> degrades the value of suffering,.. and suffering is a high value
> "thing" from the viewpoint of "humanity".
Soooo ......

Suicide isn't forbidden, but it is discouraged, because it degrades
the value of suffering.

Suicide degrades the value of suffering.

Suicide degrayyyyyyydes the vaaaaaalue of suhhhhhhhhhffering.

Suicide DEEEEEEEEEEgrades THE value of sufFERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRing.

Suicide degrades the value of surfing ... no, I mean suffering.

What the hell does that mean?

FishbellykanakaDude
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Re: 1-Jan-19 World View -- Generational Dynamics 2019 Forecast: The Camel versus the Can / Future of Generational Dynami

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

John wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote: > Suicide isn't forbidden, but it is discouraged, because it
> degrades the value of suffering,.. and suffering is a high value
> "thing" from the viewpoint of "humanity".
Soooo ......

Suicide isn't forbidden, but it is discouraged, because it degrades
the value of suffering.

Suicide degrades the value of suffering.

Suicide degrayyyyyyydes the vaaaaaalue of suhhhhhhhhhffering.

Suicide DEEEEEEEEEEgrades THE value of sufFERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRing.

Suicide degrades the value of surfing ... no, I mean suffering.

What the hell does that mean?
<chuckle, chuckle, chuckle..> Not laughing AT you,.. just with you, as the way you've "reframed" what you thought I said IS really rather hilarious. Good to see you haven't lost your sense of humor!

And, yes, suicide DOES degrade the value of surfing, as the goal of surfing is suffering THOUGH the surf to surf, and "doing" suicide while surfing stops the surfing, which is obviously not the goal of surfing, so choosing not to surf while choosing to surf, other than being an abject contradiction, is a "degradation" of surfing. So,.. yeah,.. that.

Just replace "surf" with "life" and life becomes a bit more understandable.

Suicide is the relief of suffering. Relief of suffering is a good thing, but we only get to do that once, and when it's done unnecessarily it forecloses future positive "suffering for betterment", which is what all suffering is.

Life is the pursuit of "productive suffering". Suicide is the final end of that pursuit. Finding a hidey-hole is a temporary end to that pursuit. A temporary halt of positive work is preferable to a permanent halt.

We put up with suffering because we have to pass through it to get "our reward", whatever that may be.

Suffering is not an evil. The unnecessary application of suffering is an evil (in fact THE [singular] evil).

Suffering is like material stress on any structure in the universe. It is the "price" of existence.

"Things" that can use their various stresses (aka energy gradients) to produce "desirable stuff", while remaining "not dead", are converting "suffering" into "value" on an ongoing basis.

"Things" that break because they can't handle those various stresses provide "resources" (in their breakage) for those things that can handle those stresses, and the universe "develops", which also converts "suffering" into "value", but only once.

Finding that "place" where we can handle our suffering and make the world a better place without breaking is the goal, but in any case suffering always results, eventually, in creating value within the universe.

But there's no wishing suffering away, as it is the singular value creating process that exists.

Attempting to wish suffering away is equivalent to wishing away existence, which is actually a pretty good definition of suicide.

Aloha, love, to you! :) <shaka nui!>

John
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Re: 1-Jan-19 World View -- Generational Dynamics 2019 Forecast: The Camel versus the Can / Future of Generational Dynami

Post by John »

FishbellykanakaDude wrote: > Suicide is the relief of suffering. Relief of suffering is a good
> thing, but we only get to do that once, and when it's done
> unnecessarily it forecloses future positive "suffering for
> betterment", which is what all suffering is.

> Life is the pursuit of "productive suffering". Suicide is the
> final end of that pursuit. Finding a hidey-hole is a temporary end
> to that pursuit. A temporary halt of positive work is preferable
> to a permanent halt.
The same argument could be made for any irreversible decision.

So if your really old car is at death's door, they you can get rid of
it, which would be an irreversible decision, but doing so would
degrade the value of clunkers.

Or you could spend many thousands of dollars to repair and
rehabilitate the really old car, so that it could clunk along for
another year or two. It hardly seems worth wasting the money on an
old clunker like that, especially since it would only keep things
going for just a little longer. If it were a younger car, then
spending the money to repair it might mean that the car could continue
running for many years. But if it's a really old clunky car that
could only survive a little longer anyway, rattling and banging along
and getting 5 miles per gallon, then spending a lot of money would
just be a waste.

But all that assumes that all that money is available. If you've run
out of money and you don't have those thousands of dollars to repair
and rehabilitate the old clunker so that it can clunk and rattle
around a just little while longer, then you'd have no choice. The
decision would have been made for you by the fact that you've run out
of money. You'd have to make the irreversible decision to get rid of
the clunker.

JenXChick
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Re: 1-Jan-19 World View -- Generational Dynamics 2019 Forecast: The Camel versus the Can / Future of Generational Dynami

Post by JenXChick »

John wrote:
I've been doing this for 15 years. People have suggested all sorts of
things over the years, and many have been quite time consuming. But
they've all gone nowhere. This is the "Cassandra curse."

Your suggestions would take an enormous amount of time, and would make
almost zero money, for the reasons that I gave in the previous thread.

But hey, Ms. JenXChick, maybe you think I'm wrong. So let's turn this
into an opportunity for you.

You set the whole thing up and do the marketing, publicity, and public
relations. Also, take responsibility for selling ads, getting
subscribers, and related things. And let me know when you need me to
record or write something for the project.

Then when the money starts pouring in, you get a cut. It would be a
nice additional stream of income for you, with the added bonus that
you would get to prove a Boomer wrong. Start with a small "proof of
concept" project of some kind that won't take much work, and see for
yourself how it goes. How about it?
Maybe you don't know how YouTube monetization works, but essentially views = $$$. All you really have to do is gain enough views per video and you can make a decent living. PewDiePie makes millions of dollars a year just off YouTube videos alone, and this was when he had around 20 million subscribers. He now approaches 80 million subscribers...and even though YouTube reconfigured the monetization formula to lower how much they pay out, people still make a decent living with far fewer views than the top YouTubers.

The key component to being a successful YouTuber is consistency of quality video output. Quality is hard to gauge, of course, but the best way to define it is, "Content that people want to watch." There are all kinds of audiences out there. All it takes is finding the right way to present this material in order to attract the audience that will be willing to consume it. The best way to do this would be to use a lot of graphics and animations, throw in some humor, have interviews with interesting guests, and yes, this optimal way of doing things would be incredibly time consuming and require a large initial investment, neither of which I'm willing to do as I already have a great career.

What I can do is bring up the concept to friends who are both interested in the creative aspect of this sort of thing as well as the general concepts of GD (I discuss it with all my friends, and you're right, most aren't open to the ideas and try to debunk them, but some are open minded enough to accept it as a possibility). I'll let you know if anyone wants to run a Generational Dynamics YouTube channel.

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Tom Mazanec
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Re: 1-Jan-19 World View -- Generational Dynamics 2019 Forecast: The Camel versus the Can / Future of Generational Dynami

Post by Tom Mazanec »

John, my mother died of cancer, and my father died of Alzheimer's. I understand praying for their death, as she did, and as I did for my father. But it was left to GOD's choice. And if you think the Bible allows suicide, I don't know what interpretation you are using, but it is not the Catholic one.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

John
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Re: 1-Jan-19 World View -- Generational Dynamics 2019 Forecast: The Camel versus the Can / Future of Generational Dynami

Post by John »

Tom Mazanec wrote: > John, my mother died of cancer, and my father died of
> Alzheimer's. I understand praying for their death, as she did, and
> as I did for my father. But it was left to GOD's choice. And if
> you think the Bible allows suicide, I don't know what
> interpretation you are using, but it is not the Catholic
> one.
So, did you or your mother sign a DNR, or did you just let both of
your parents suffer for as long a period of time as possible? Did the
hospital use extra pain killers to hasten death?

The Bible does not forbid suicide. The Catholic Church has declared
that suicide is a mortal sin.

However, using contraception is also a mortal sin. And there seem
to be no exceptions.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/contracepti ... mortal-sin

Suicide is a mortal sin, but that's a lot more nuanced.
> A person who “willfully and knowingly” chooses suicide would still
> be considered to be in a state of mortal sin. The church
> acknowledges, however, that most people who die by suicide suffer
> from mental illness and are thus incapable of making a clear,
> rational decision. This was first reflected in 1992 when John Paul
> II approved the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which clearly
> articulated this position for the first time.

> The catechism affirms that suicide is contrary to both love of God
> and love of self, and that it goes against the basic human
> instinct to preserve life. But it also notes that “grave
> psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship,
> suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one
> committing suicide.” The catechism also emphasizes that the church
> should pray for those who die by suicide and should not fear for
> their eternal salvation.

> https://www.uscatholic.org/articles/201 ... -sin-29503
So a lot of people, especially Breitbart commenters, think that I
suffer from mental illness and have "grave psychological
disturbances," so it looks like I'm off the hook.

At any rate, it seems that there are no such nuances for using
contraception, so I would infer that using contraception is a worse
sin in the Catholic Church, than suicide.

John
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Re: 1-Jan-19 World View -- Generational Dynamics 2019 Forecast: The Camel versus the Can / Future of Generational Dynami

Post by John »

JenXChick wrote: > Maybe you don't know how YouTube monetization works, but
> essentially views = $$$. All you really have to do is gain enough
> views per video and you can make a decent living. PewDiePie makes
> millions of dollars a year just off YouTube videos alone, and this
> was when he had around 20 million subscribers. He now approaches
> 80 million subscribers...and even though YouTube reconfigured the
> monetization formula to lower how much they pay out, people still
> make a decent living with far fewer views than the top YouTubers.

> The key component to being a successful YouTuber is consistency of
> quality video output. Quality is hard to gauge, of course, but
> the best way to define it is, "Content that people want to watch."
> There are all kinds of audiences out there. All it takes is
> finding the right way to present this material in order to attract
> the audience that will be willing to consume it. The best way to
> do this would be to use a lot of graphics and animations, throw in
> some humor, have interviews with interesting guests, and yes, this
> optimal way of doing things would be incredibly time consuming and
> require a large initial investment, neither of which I'm willing
> to do as I already have a great career.

> What I can do is bring up the concept to friends who are both
> interested in the creative aspect of this sort of thing as well as
> the general concepts of GD (I discuss it with all my friends, and
> you're right, most aren't open to the ideas and try to debunk
> them, but some are open minded enough to accept it as a
> possibility). I'll let you know if anyone wants to run a
> Generational Dynamics YouTube channel.
Wikipedia: "Felix Arvid Ulf Kjellberg, known online as PewDiePie, is a
Swedish YouTuber, comedian and video game commentator, best known for
his YouTube video content, which has mainly consisted of Let's Play
commentaries, vlogs, and comedic formatted shows."

I know you can make millions from Youtube videos, but you have to have
viral subject matter, as PewDiePie does. As you say, one needs
"Content that people want to watch." But what I do is "anti-viral" --
people who tell their friends about it get shunned themselves. This
is the Cassandra curse.

Look, I'm skeptical, and the project you're describing is well outside
of my comfort zone and skill set, but I'm certainly open-minded about
it, and if you can find someone who wants to take responsibility for
the whole project, pull everything together and manage it, then I'm
in.

But there are many things that I don't know how to do even if I had
the skill set. Where would I get the graphics and animations?
There's plenty of stuff available on news sites like the BBC and
al-Jazeera, but that stuff is all copyrighted.

And what would be the topics of the videos? Today's article is on
Myanmar, yesterday's was on the South China Sea, the day before was on
Kenya. Would those be the topics of three videos? How would those
videos get done, and who would even want to watch them?

I write about geopolitics and international events, and we live in a
world where most people under 60 couldn't find China on a map. The
only thing that people are interested in are politics -- the
impeachment, the shutdown, and the border wall. Or in the UK, Brexit,
brexit, brexit.

So I just don't see how this would work, although if someone else can,
then I'm in.

[..... Long intermission .....]

As I was typing the above, something did occur to me that might sell
and makes sense to me.

It would be like a tv talking heads panel format. I'd report the news
item, including a generational analysis. Then there would be two
people giving political commentary. Both of them would be young and
pretty/sexy. One would be left-wing, and the other would be
right-wing. The opinions could be gleaned from the comments to my
Breitbart article or elsewhere. I would stay above the fray, and
moderate the discussion. I think that Bret Baer on Fox evening news
would be a good example, except that I would say something if a
political opinion violated the Generational Dynamics analysis.

Once again, getting all this set up and producing these videos would
be waaaaaaaaay outside my skill set. But if you know someone who can
take responsibility for the whole thing and manage it, then it might
work.

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