24-Dec-18 World View -- Generational Dynamics analysis of the troop withdrawal from Syria

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
CH86
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Re: 24-Dec-18 World View -- Generational Dynamics analysis of the troop withdrawal from Syria

Post by CH86 »

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
CH86 wrote:Assad is a GOOD person, something boomers on this forum are seemingly incapable of understanding or grasping. Without Assad, Syria would have gone under. Assad is the rock shielding Syria from that fate.
You haven't made the case that Assad is a "good person".

Just make your case, and we'll believe you. I would suggest explaining what you mean by "good", and why Syria "going under" would have been a "bad" thing.

Personally, since I believe that that which happens (actually occurs) is the "best possible outcome" of what could have happened in every case, even though that may not be obvious at the time, Syria's NOT "going under" was in fact a "good" thing to have happened, and Assad NOT "being killed" was a "good" thing to have happened, I (apparently) agree with you that WHAT HAPPENED was "good",.. but I have a sneaking suspicion that your definition of "good" may be different from mine.

Anyway,.. make your case. Then we can at least understand what you MEAN, and agree to disagree, if not agree to agree.
That's the problem here, you (and the majority of commentators not merely on this forum, but practically everywhere i can find, especially where boomers are posting in large numbers) are biased and refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that your assessments are biased. You refuse to countenance even the very possibility of Assad being a good person. This not just the reaction to the views stated by me, this true within society itself, note just in the last few days the organized smear campaign being initiated against Tulsi Gabbard by both Democrats and Republicans simply because she has an opinion that contradicts the dominant orthodoxy on Syria.

The same way you dismissed alternative suggestions when I mentioned the example of "Schindler's list" and the historical events that the movie is based on; you acknowledge that the Jews who were killed were good people who didn't deserve being killed, you are capable of acknowledging that Schindler started out as evil but becomes a good person by realizing that what he was participating in was evil and moved to make a contribution to stopping it. Yet boomers like yourself and boomer acolytes, refuse to even consider the possibility that the commandant was good person, the very idea of the commandant being a good person is rejected by your generation. Same with unit 731 in the pacific, boomers reject the very idea of Shiro Ishii being a good person and being merely an officer fighting in a war.

FishbellykanakaDude
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Re: 24-Dec-18 World View -- Generational Dynamics analysis of the troop withdrawal from Syria

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

CH86 wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
CH86 wrote:Assad is a GOOD person, something boomers on this forum are seemingly incapable of understanding or grasping. Without Assad, Syria would have gone under. Assad is the rock shielding Syria from that fate.
You haven't made the case that Assad is a "good person".

Just make your case, and we'll believe you. I would suggest explaining what you mean by "good", and why Syria "going under" would have been a "bad" thing.

Personally, since I believe that that which happens (actually occurs) is the "best possible outcome" of what could have happened in every case, even though that may not be obvious at the time, Syria's NOT "going under" was in fact a "good" thing to have happened, and Assad NOT "being killed" was a "good" thing to have happened, I (apparently) agree with you that WHAT HAPPENED was "good",.. but I have a sneaking suspicion that your definition of "good" may be different from mine.

Anyway,.. make your case. Then we can at least understand what you MEAN, and agree to disagree, if not agree to agree.
That's the problem here, you (and the majority of commentators not merely on this forum, but practically everywhere i can find, especially where boomers are posting in large numbers) are biased and refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that your assessments are biased. You refuse to countenance even the very possibility of Assad being a good person. This not just the reaction to the views stated by me, this true within society itself, note just in the last few days the organized smear campaign being initiated against Tulsi Gabbard by both Democrats and Republicans simply because she has an opinion that contradicts the dominant orthodoxy on Syria.
The question on the table is: "How is Assad/Hitler/etcetera a Good Person?"

I call him a "not good person" because he chooses to unnecessarily (in my opinion) inflict suffering on innocents.

It IS the "unnecessarily" part that is up for debate, of course, and is the crux of the matter, as EVERY leader inevitably MUST inflict suffering on some portion of their "innocent led population". The distinguishing characteristic is more or less subjective (once again, OF COURSE).

But,.. the "judgement" of the masses (both those led and not-led) is the judgement that counts.

So, it's incumbent on those who would have people believe as they believe to make their case.

So,... make your case! :)
The same way you dismissed alternative suggestions when I mentioned the example of "Schindler's list" and the historical events that the movie is based on; you acknowledge that the Jews who were killed were good people who didn't deserve being killed, you are capable of acknowledging that Schindler started out as evil but becomes a good person by realizing that what he was participating in was evil and moved to make a contribution to stopping it. Yet boomers like yourself and boomer acolytes, refuse to even consider the possibility that the commandant was good person, the very idea of the commandant being a good person is rejected by your generation. Same with unit 731 in the pacific, boomers reject the very idea of Shiro Ishii being a good person and being merely an officer fighting in a war.
The issue is not anyone's "openness" to being convinced to believe something you believe in. It is the "power" that you can muster to convince others that your case is worth believing.

You simply cannot convince a "true believer" that they are wrong. Period.

But not providing convincing evidence to change other's minds won't convince anyone either.

So, take what you think you know of those who you'd like to convince, and combine that with what is convincing to you in a way that would convince them.

Simple, right? Go for it, dude!

AnneAnderson
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Re: 24-Dec-18 World View -- Generational Dynamics analysis of the troop withdrawal from Syria

Post by AnneAnderson »

Regardless of whether you go bankrupt, as a needy individual in America you can even now carry on with a way of life that a Medieval King would have wondered about. What's more, you have individuals who respect you. Kindly don't do anything rash and irreversible.

John
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Re: 24-Dec-18 World View -- Generational Dynamics analysis of the troop withdrawal from Syria

Post by John »

AnneAnderson wrote: > Regardless of whether you go bankrupt, as a needy individual in
> America you can even now carry on with a way of life that a
> Medieval King would have wondered about. What's more, you have
> individuals who respect you. Kindly don't do anything rash and
> irreversible.
I know what Medieval Kings you're talking about. I see them every day.
It's those people I see sitting on the sidewalks of Boston holding out
a cup and begging for spare change.

So at some point in the next few months I'm going to be unable to pay
my rent or buy groceries. I could become one of your "Medieval
Kings," but what's the point? What's the point of living at all, if
it's going to be like that? Well, I may do something "irreversible,"
but at least it won't be "rash," since I've been thinking about it and
talking about it for a long time.

I heard an idiot analyst on tv over the weekend, explaining why the
suicide rate has been going up, even for teenagers. He said that it
started going up in 2008 at the time when the iPhone started becoming
popular, and he said that spending so much time on iPhones is making
people suicidal. Apparently this guy was too stupid to think that
2008 was also the time when people started losing their homes and
going bankrupt from the financial crisis. That's why the suicide rate
is going up. Apparently that's a better choice than living like a
"Medieval King."

FishbellykanakaDude
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: 24-Dec-18 World View -- Generational Dynamics analysis of the troop withdrawal from Syria

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

John wrote:... He said that it
started going up in 2008 at the time when the iPhone started becoming
popular, and he said that spending so much time on iPhones is making
people suicidal. Apparently this guy was too stupid to think that
2008 was also the time when people started losing their homes and
going bankrupt from the financial crisis. That's why the suicide rate
is going up. Apparently that's a better choice than living like a
"Medieval King."
...'cept people choose to cut off their noses to spite their faces all the time. That doesn't make noselessness the "better" choice vs. "medieval kingship", but it DID probably "feel better" than the alternatives at that moment to them.

This is the problem with basing decisions on "feelings". Or more accurately, basing decisions on the belief that "happiness" is contingent on anything other than "being happy".

Yeah,.. I know that sounds trite and rather tautological (actually abjectly tautological!), but happiness really isn't based on anything that you don't actively assign to it being contingent on. And sorry (again) for the dangling participle.

But then again, it's no skin off of my "whatever" if people give more power to those things that make their happiness veritably impossible, instead of side-stepping the whole issue and continuing to see what happens because unnecessarily irrevocable behaviors weren't "committed" to.

..and once again with the dangling participle. Oops. (..this makes my dead Grandma weep..)

iPhones, by the way, ARE a pretty decent reason for suicide, due to the whole "which damned ADAPTER do I use NOW!!!?" problem.

Aloha nui īa ʻoe, dude! :) <shaka!>

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Tom Mazanec
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Re: 24-Dec-18 World View -- Generational Dynamics analysis of the troop withdrawal from Syria

Post by Tom Mazanec »

Well, I don't know if this will do any good, but I called the Suicide Prevention Hotline and asked for advice. They suggested I contact my local police and maybe they could track down John's local police. So that is what I did.
John, I am trying to save your immortal soul. I am trying to prevent you from going to Hell.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

John
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Re: 24-Dec-18 World View -- Generational Dynamics analysis of the troop withdrawal from Syria

Post by John »

Tom Mazanec wrote: > Well, I don't know if this will do any good, but I called the
> Suicide Prevention Hotline and asked for advice. They suggested I
> contact my local police and maybe they could track down John's
> local police. So that is what I did. John, I am trying to save
> your immortal soul. I am trying to prevent you from going to
> Hell.
If you get me in trouble I'm going to be really pissed.

However, the suicide rate has been going up, and it's not against the
law to attempt or commit suicide. And it's not even prohibited by the
Bible, as we've previously discussed, so nobody is going to hell for
committing suicide.

I have to laugh at one thing. If you called the police and asked them
to call another police department for the reasons you gave, they're
going to think you're a nutcase. Maybe the police will pay a visit to
you.

I'm flattered that you're anxious about me. Perhaps you should
consider expiating your anxiety by becoming a volunteer at the suicide
prevention hotline that you called. Maybe you can help someone else,
and that will make you feel better.

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Tom Mazanec
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Re: 24-Dec-18 World View -- Generational Dynamics analysis of the troop withdrawal from Syria

Post by Tom Mazanec »

Good idea, except that I might be as bad as Arnold J. Rimmer on Red Dwarf.
Lister: You were on the Suicide Prevention Hotline for one shift and twelve people jumped. It wouldn't be soo bad but two of them were wrong numbers. One guy wanting to wish his Mum a happy birthday and another trying to get the sports result.
Rimmer: It made all the papers, you know. 'The Night of the Lemmings' they called it.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

FishbellykanakaDude
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: 24-Dec-18 World View -- Generational Dynamics analysis of the troop withdrawal from Syria

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

Tom Mazanec wrote:Good idea, except that I might be as bad as Arnold J. Rimmer on Red Dwarf.
Lister: You were on the Suicide Prevention Hotline for one shift and twelve people jumped. It wouldn't be soo bad but two of them were wrong numbers. One guy wanting to wish his Mum a happy birthday and another trying to get the sports result.
Rimmer: It made all the papers, you know. 'The Night of the Lemmings' they called it.
I'm with Cat,.. as usual...

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Navigator
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Re: 24-Dec-18 World View -- Generational Dynamics analysis of the troop withdrawal from Syria

Post by Navigator »

John,

Why not move to a location where you can make ends meet? Say Shreveport or Lubbock? I think you live in a pretty high-rent district.

You have a lot to contribute, it would be sad to lose your voice.

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