Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

Guest wrote: > The Albanian Orthodox Church has been independent since it was
> founded over a hundred years ago. The head of the Albanian
> Orthodox Church was a Harvard Educated American who also served as
> Prime Minister in the 1920s. It is currently lead by a Greek
> cleric (from Greece) and they have always looked East towards
> Constantinople. The same with the Greek Church. In the Balkans,
> only the Serbs and Montenegrins look to Russia. The rest follow
> Constantinople. The Church in Macedonia is divided. This split
> mirrors a political divide.

> Do people really believe that Erdogan would be crazy enough to
> expel the Patriarch? Secular Turks would fight like tigers to
> protect him because he is a symbol, an extremely important symbol,
> of the Turkish Republic's secular existence. Expelling the
> Patriarch would mean civil war in Turkey. Already the Turkish army
> is riddled with dissident elements. Turks are divided 50/50.

> Albanians and Greeks would also oppose the expulsion of the
> Patriarch. So would other Balkan nations. Turkey must truly be
> aware of this.

John wrote:

Guest wrote: > The Albanian Orthodox Church has been independent since it was
> founded over a hundred years ago. The head of the Albanian
> Orthodox Church was a Harvard Educated American who also served as
> Prime Minister in the 1920s. It is currently lead by a Greek
> cleric (from Greece) and they have always looked East towards
> Constantinople. The same with the Greek Church. In the Balkans,
> only the Serbs and Montenegrins look to Russia. The rest follow
> Constantinople. The Church in Macedonia is divided. This split
> mirrors a political divide.

> Do people really believe that Erdogan would be crazy enough to
> expel the Patriarch? Secular Turks would fight like tigers to
> protect him because he is a symbol, an extremely important symbol,
> of the Turkish Republic's secular existence. Expelling the
> Patriarch would mean civil war in Turkey. Already the Turkish army
> is riddled with dissident elements. Turks are divided 50/50.

> Albanians and Greeks would also oppose the expulsion of the
> Patriarch. So would other Balkan nations. Turkey must truly be
> aware of this.

According to this article from December:

https://jamestown.org/program/moscow-pa ... ddle-east/

Putin and Kirill are particularly focusing on the Imperial Orthodox
Palestine Society and other Palestinian churches, in order to expand
Russian influence across the Mideast.

Nothing I read suggests any hint that Erdogan might expel the
Patriarch. However, there are many things that Erdogan do that are
short of expulsion.

Guest wrote: > This schism is interesting, because Russia has historically been
> the ally of the Greek Orthodox Christians against the Ottoman
> Turks. Similarly, the Ukrainians have long been allies of
> convenience with the Turks against the Russians. This latter
> alliance changed when Turkey's Erdogan allied with Russia's Putin,
> a move that is hugely controversial in Turkish society.

> Will this new alignment last or will popular pressure force these
> nations into opposition to their historic enemies? Russia and
> Turkey already may be on the verge of a confrontation near Idlib,
> Syria.

Guest wrote:This schism is interesting, because Russia has historically been the ally of the Greek Orthodox Christians against the Ottoman Turks. Similarly, the Ukrainians have long been allies of convenience with the Turks against the Russians. This latter alliance changed when Turkey's Erdogan allied with Russia's Putin, a move that is hugely controversial in Turkish society.

Will this new alignment last or will popular pressure force these nations into opposition to their historic enemies? Russia and Turkey already may be on the verge of a confrontation near Idlib, Syria.

Guest wrote:Erdogan has purged the ranks of the military. Who will oppose him after the failed 'coup' in 2016? How about the Turkish air force general that was anally raped with a bottle in front of other air force personnel? How about the Turkish army generals who are being tortured and starved as I write this. Will they oppose him now? How about the thousands of military officers who are still languishing in prison cells unfit for dogs? No. The Turkish military has been decapitated. The Turkish army is now lead by incompetents loyal only to Erdogan. You expect too much. Truly I say, secular Turkey is dying.