2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America

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John
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Re: 2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America

Post by John »

Tom Mazanec wrote: > But if I understand Festinger's book, almost everybody doubled
> down on their disconfirmed beliefs. Why would it be different in
> politics as opposed to prophesy?
There's always a time element involved. Right after a disconfirmation
event, whether it's because prophecy failed and the world didn't end,
or there a generational regeneracy event leading to a crisis war, core
believers will immediately be forced to choose between rejecting their
core beliefs and doubling down on them.

In the case of the failed prophecy, those who doubled down and start
prophecying cannot keep that up forever. After a few weeks or months,
people start dropping out of the core support group, and the ones that
continue proselytizing look increasingly ridiculous or irrelevant. In
time, they all reject the failed prophecy because there's no choice.

When a regeneracy event like the bombing of Pearl Harbor occurs, there
will be people who have totally committed their lives to believing
that peace can be maintained through negotiation, and anyone who
criticizes the enemy (Japan) should be marginalized and ignored. So
when the bombing occurs, some of these people may double down on the
belief by claiming that negotiation is still possible. But as the war
proceeds, and the Bataan Death March occurs, it becomes clear to these
people and to everyone else that the anti-war position is provably
wrong, and that people who maintain this position are traitors. In
the end, everyone is forced to adopt a unified position, and those who
don't are ostracized or shot dead.

Russ
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:25 pm

Re: 2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America

Post by Russ »

Hi John,

Was curious as to why you consider the Battle of Bull Run a Regeneracy event? Are you thinking of the First or the Second battle fought there?

Always enjoy your commentary and insights into the world, many thanks for your efforts!

John
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Re: 2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America

Post by John »

Russ wrote: > Was curious as to why you consider the Battle of Bull Run a
> Regeneracy event? Are you thinking of the First or the Second
> battle fought there?

> Always enjoy your commentary and insights into the world, many
> thanks for your efforts!
Take a look at this description of the first Battle of Bull Run:

https://www.history.com/topics/american ... f-bull-run

It's a truly amazing narrative, especially as you imagine the Union
soldiers retreating chaotically and running into picnicking families
that had come out to watch the fun. It's easy to understand how this
battle convinced many people that the Union might not survive.

Guest

Re: 2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America

Post by Guest »

But as the war proceeds, and the Bataan Death March occurs, it becomes clear to these
people and to everyone else that the anti-war position is provably
wrong, and that people who maintain this position are traitors. In
the end, everyone is forced to adopt a unified position, and those who
don't are ostracized or shot dead.
Is that what happened to Rome in 476? Did the barbarian tribes, which had overrun the empire, unite behind the Romans?

You have written repeatedly that 'all governments eventually fail". Well, America is failing. During WW2 there were race riots (for example the Zoot Suit Riots). That riot was quelled because the Mexican population was a tiny minority. What happens in a situation like that now?

America is more like the Ottoman Empire in 1914. In what condition were the peoples (and I mean peoples, not people) of the Ottoman Empire in at the end of 1918?

This country on the brink. During the 1930s, American was made up almost entirely of white Christians. That's not even remotely the case now. Americans identified as 'Americans' in 1941. Now tens of millions of American born minorities have allegiances to foreign countries. Is 2018 just like 1941? Are you sure? Because my grandparents would disagree with you, if they were still alive. Even they questioned what had become of the America they lived in during World War Two when the men of the family put on coats and ties and walked down to the recruitment center together on December 8th. They were born in America and died in an alien land. Am I to die fighting for this alien land? And for what? This?
Are Americans to just disappear? Are statues are being torn down. Our history books are being revised. Our national symbols are denigrated. If this keeps up, America will end up like England, where the English flag and the Union Jack are both under attack as symbols of racism and imperialism. Do people think the Aztecs and Africans were strictly peace loving people? They had huge empires and enslaved people on a scale the West has never seen. I don't even want to go on with this discussion anymore.
Neither do I.

Trevor
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Re: 2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America

Post by Trevor »

What's worse than the violence itself is that so many people are willing to support what Antifa does. They don't just go after "White supremacists", a term used rather freely, but mainstream conservatives, or just anyone who supports Trump in any way. The general response I hear is that the targets deserve it, that they're Nazis, extremists, those who don't deserve a voice in society.

Russ
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:25 pm

Re: 2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America

Post by Russ »

John wrote: It's a truly amazing narrative, especially as you imagine the Union
soldiers retreating chaotically and running into picnicking families
that had come out to watch the fun. It's easy to understand how this
battle convinced many people that the Union might not survive.
Thanks for the explanation - certainly can see how it's a Regeneracy event as it was the first major battle between the North and South.

What I'm trying to come to understand is that would this be a Regeneracy event for the North only (as they lost the battle) or for both the North and South? If so, I guess I had never considered that there could be "positive" Regeneracy events as well as negative ones (positive for the South, negative for the North).

Guest

Re: 2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
But as the war proceeds, and the Bataan Death March occurs, it becomes clear to these
people and to everyone else that the anti-war position is provably
wrong, and that people who maintain this position are traitors. In
the end, everyone is forced to adopt a unified position, and those who
don't are ostracized or shot dead.
Is that what happened to Rome in 476? Did the barbarian tribes, which had overrun the empire, unite behind the Romans?

You have written repeatedly that 'all governments eventually fail". Well, America is failing. During WW2 there were race riots (for example the Zoot Suit Riots). That riot was quelled because the Mexican population was a tiny minority. What happens in a situation like that now?

America is more like the Ottoman Empire in 1914. In what condition were the peoples (and I mean peoples, not people) of the Ottoman Empire in at the end of 1918?

This country on the brink. During the 1930s, American was made up almost entirely of white Christians. That's not even remotely the case now. Americans identified as 'Americans' in 1941. Now tens of millions of American born minorities have allegiances to foreign countries. Is 2018 just like 1941? Are you sure? Because my grandparents would disagree with you, if they were still alive. Even they questioned what had become of the America they lived in during World War Two when the men of the family put on coats and ties and walked down to the recruitment center together on December 8th. They were born in America and died in an alien land. Am I to die fighting for this alien land? And for what? This?
Are Americans to just disappear? Are statues are being torn down. Our history books are being revised. Our national symbols are denigrated. If this keeps up, America will end up like England, where the English flag and the Union Jack are both under attack as symbols of racism and imperialism. Do people think the Aztecs and Africans were strictly peace loving people? They had huge empires and enslaved people on a scale the West has never seen. I don't even want to go on with this discussion anymore.
Neither do I.
A book came out in the late 90's that foretold all of this. It must have seemed crazy when published in 1997, but many things the author wrote has or are coming true.

https://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-Two-Br ... ivil+war+2

I won't link here, but you can find this book in PDF format by searching popular search engines.

I remember reading this book years ago and what I remember more then anything is how the author had experience in the breakup of Yugoslavia and their civil war. He saw the future demographic trends of the U.S. and predicted balkanization, especially as whites lose majority population.

A lot of it is outdated and wrong but there are some things happening today that the author predicted from 20 years ago.

Interesting, he predicts when Civil War II will begin (page 129):
Based on the mutual reinforcement and therefore certain acceleration of the trends listed
above, I expect Civil War II will shift into its all-out, continuous military phase sooner than
the above figures indicate. Not to be accused of stinginess, I'll even give the exact time
and place:
The Year: 2020
The Date: The Fifth of May
The Time: About Midnight
The State: California
The City: Los Angeles
The Place: Ruben Salazar Park
Today, Pancho Villa is a Mexican folk hero. Today, Mexican ethnics are the majority in
much of the southwest. Long before 2050 AD, they will be the majority in all of the
southwest. As the Hispanic population surges past 50%, Spanish will replace English as
the dominant language. New waves of Mexican immigrants won't have to learn English to
work or collect welfare, so they won't bother to. Thus they will not be assimilated into
American society as previous Mexican immigrants have been.
Demographics and affirmative action will purge the Anglos out of police departments and
other branches of local government. Bilingualism will increasingly be mandatory for both
government and private employment. Eventually, a working knowledge of English will not
be a requirement for government employment at all. Eventually, Anglo citizens who speak
only English will be hard pressed to obtain any government employment or services. The
southwest will be transformed into a Spanish-speaking, de facto province of Mexico.

Enforcement of immigration laws by Hispanic-controlled police departments will disappear
entirely. Some Hispanic-controlled police departments will publicly announce their defiant
refusal to enforce immigration laws. Millions of desperate, poverty-stricken Mexicans will
stream across the border. The southwest will be American only in a sense best described
as a legal fiction—a meaningless flag fluttering overhead and a federal army of occupation
to prevent the disaffected locals from tearing it down.
If this scenario sounds farfetched, recall that it parallels how formerly Mexican Texas was
settled by waves of Anglo immigrants who rebelled and set up their own nation the minute
they assembled the military resources to do so. Now history is running in reverse, and the
Mexicans are taking the southwest back. Like it or not, admit it or not, ignore it or not, the
Mexicans are taking the southwest back, and short of sealing our border with Mexico there
is precious little we can do about it. These events will not occur in isolation. Long before
the middle of the next century, Mexico will experience at least one, and more probably a
series of, catastrophic revolutions.
The above reminds me of how a young hispanic woman with no previous experience recently beat a Democratic big wig in an election. Her opponent was a "perfect liberal" yet she was elected because of her race. What percentage of the district where she won is hispanic?
New York's 14th congressional district
New York US Congressional District 14 (since 2013).tif
New York 's 14th congressional district - since January 3, 2013.
Current Representative Joseph Crowley (D–Queens)
Ethnicity
18.41% White
11.39% Black
16.24% Asian
49.80% Hispanic
0.45% Native American
3.71% other
Cook PVI D+29[1]
English-speaking White Americans
Eventually, being an American will be meaningless in practical terms, and therefore there
will be no point in the continued existence of America at all. Eventually for working-class
white Americans our ethnic group and income level will be our de facto nationality.
The racist euphemism for this systematic dismantling of the rights of English-speaking
Europeans is affirmative action. Increasingly, economic opportunities and even legal rights
are determined not by your status of being an American citizen or not, but by your ethnic
group. Increasingly, government documents require that individuals state their ethnic
group. This data is not merely for informational purposes.
The politically-correct social planners have assigned English-speaking Europeans to the
very bottom layer of imperial America, and racist affirmative action is the tool they're using
to construct their brave new world. Even though racist affirmative action will suffer
occasional setbacks, eventually this racist concept will triumph completely. Eventually, the
growing minorities and their New Order allies will seize absolute political power and
expand racist affirmative action to all areas of everyday life in the new multiethnic
American Empire. This racist concept of affirmative action is the single most important test
of how close this country is to Civil War II, and it raises questions:

Question 1: What tier of the multiethnic American Empire do you think you've been
assigned to?

Question 2: Do you personally think your assigned tier is rising or sinking in legal rights
and economic opportunity?

Question 3: When being an American no longer means anything at all, what will you then
consider your nationality to be?

These are no mere rhetorical questions. I really want you to think over these three
straightforward questions until you've given yourself direct and honest answers. The
politically-correct elitists who run the multiethnic American Empire keep telling middleclass,
white Americans that they are now whites first and Americans second. Have the
imperial elitists seriously considered what will follow when most white Americans actually
start to agree with them?
While some of these are off, remember this was written in 1997.
The Reconquista Checklist
Watch for the following developments that constitute a checklist of events that will unfold
as we edge closer to the abyss of Civil War II in the southwest:
Item 1: A requirement by any local or state government that its employees must be fluent
in Spanish.
Item 2: A lack of requirement by any local or state government that its employees must be
fluent in English.
Item 3: The adoption of policies by school boards that Spanish classes be mandatory or
that instruction in English be optional.
Item 4: The demand by a Mexican political party or a major politician that the southwest of
the United States be returned to Mexican sovereignty.
Item 5: The formation of an Hispanic-based political party in America.
Item 6: The increasing display by many Mexican-Americans of nationalistic symbols such
as the Mexican flag, in much the same manner that many African-Americans now
commonly wear Malcolm X hats.

Item 7: The emergence of a revolutionary guerrilla movement in Mexico.
Item 8: The overthrow of the Mexican establishment, either by an election, coup d'etat, or
revolution, that brings an ultra-nationalistic government to power, either right- wing or leftwing.
Item 9: A general economic collapse in Mexico followed by a massive surge of illegal
aliens into America.

Item 10: The expansion of the Border Patrol or its conversion into a military force
equipped with heavy weapons.
Item 11: The massing of American military units near the border, or the involvement of our
federal military in border control.

Item 12: The massing of Mexican Army units along the border.
Item 13: The public refusal by a police department controlled by Hispanics to enforce
immigration laws, for individual Hispanic policemen to refuse to enforce these laws, or for
any association of Hispanic law enforcement officers to equivocate about these laws. Also
watch for the first instance of an Hispanic-American law enforcement officer who can not
speak English.

Item 14: Any cross-border raid by Mexican revolutionary guerrillas into America, however
small. This will breach an important psychological barrier and lead to more such
incursions.
Item 15: The common occurrence in America of urban riots by Mexicans or Mexican-
Americans as riots by African Americans are now common.

Item 16: The formation of Hispanic militias in the southwest.
Item 17: The recognition of dual citizenship by the Mexican government for Chicanes and
for Mexican immigrants who become citizens of America. The Mexican government will
use this concept of dual citizenship to involve itself in internal American affairs such as
promoting racist affirmative action for Hispanics, influencing American elections, and
interfering in matters concerning control of our borders.

Item 18: Watch for Mexican-Americans claiming legal rights to land currently owned by
Angles, claims based on the old Spanish royal land grants. When Mexico was a colony of
Spain, Spanish kings granted large tracks of land to their Spanish and Mexican subjects in
what is now the American southwest. The Mexican government continued legal
recognition of these grants after Mexico won its independence from Spain in 1821. After
our war of aggression against Mexico, the southwest was surrendered to us by the Treaty
of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. Under the provisions of this treaty, the United States was to
respect these land grants. We didn't. We Angles stole most of it straightaway. As soon as
the Hispanics control the legal and law enforcement machinery in the southwest, they will
steal it back, straightaway, every last square foot of it, probably under color of law, but by
leveled rifles if they are impatient. This cycle of land stealing illustrates as well as you
please how the real world works: (A) The Spanish immigrants stole the land from the
Indians by genocide. (B) The Spanish immigrants redefined themselves as Mexicans,
revolted and stole the entire country from the Spanish Crown. (C) The Angles stole the
land from the Mexicans by wars of secession and aggression. (D) The Mexicans and
Mexican-Americans will steal the land back, either by direct force in Civil War II, or under
color of law backed by the police force of the state.
Item 19: Watch for the appearance of third-world slums in American cities. They will
almost certainly appear first in the sprawling urban barrio centered in East Los Angeles, or
the dismal Hispanic agricultural towns near Fresno, California, or adjacent to border towns
like El Paso. They will be straight out of Mexico City, built of cinder blocks, plywood, tin
and even cardboard, with illegal and dangerous pirate electrical hookups and no sewer
hookups (The New York Times, March 27,1988, Sect. I, p. 1. The New York Times, Jan.
3,1989, Sect. I, p. 12. The New York Times, April 2, 1995, Business Section, p. 1. The
New York Times, Jwe 20, 1995, Sect. D, p. 8.). Any attempts to evict them will bring
accusations of racism, and will spark riots.

Item 20: Watch for border incidents involving exchanges of gunfire between Mexican
police and/or military on one side and American police and/or military on the other side.
One such incident was reported in the New York Times. On Aug. 10, 1995, a U.S. Border
Patrol officer on the American side of the border was shot in the back by one of two
Mexican (Nogales City) police officers on the Mexican side, who then crossed over the
border onto American soil and continued firing at the American patrolman and his partner,
neither of whom fired back. According to the the New York Times the border is now an
area of "low-level conflict," (The New York Times, Aug. 20, 1995, p. 5.) so expect an
escalation of such shooting incidents in the future.
Item 21: Watch for a general exodus of working-class whites out of the southwest,
especially the border area, and increasing mention of this flight in the establishment press.
This will be accompanied by a downward spiral and even a collapse in real estate prices in
the southwest.
Item 22: Watch for all manner of violent and disruptive incidents in Mexico—Derailments
and looting of trains; hijacking of trucks; seizure of the Haciendas of the wealthy;
massacres of peasants; mutiny in the army; occupation of factories and government
offices by workers; soldiers and police firing on protesters; units of the security forces
engaging each other in firelights; formation of private security armies; bank robberies and
ransom kidnappings of the wealthy by revolutionaries; food riots; all manner of sabotage;
show trials followed by public executions; corpses dumped along roads; a general exodus
of the wealthy to Europe and America; another and even more serious collapse of the
peso and a massive flight of capital; a collapse of the stock market and the economy in
general; the removal of the seat of government from Mexico City; the storming of the
Presidential Palace by a mob; the resignation and exile of the President; the seizure of
Mexico City by a revolutionary body.
This concludes the checklist for Civil War II in the southwest. Some items of this checklist,
such as the establishment of a rural guerrilla movement in Mexico, have already occurred
to one degree or another. I leave it to the skeptical to check off the others, one by one.

Guest

Re: 2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America

Post by Guest »

The above reminds me of how a young hispanic woman with no previous experience recently beat a Democratic big wig in an election. Her opponent was a "perfect liberal" yet she was elected because of her race. What percentage of the district where she won is hispanic?
She elected strictly on race. A 28 year-old nothing bartender gets elected to congress on a single issue: open borders. This self-serving loudmouth will rant in Spanish and tell other members of congress that had better learn the language. She will serve a greater purpose: to wake up the white English speaking population to their plight. I hope that white people will take action. If not, white people deserve to disappear.

When in Sodom

Re: 2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America

Post by When in Sodom »

Civil Unrest Is Here: Violence Erupts In American Streets As Progressive Leaders Urge Their Followers To “Rise Up” And Prepare For A “Summer Of Rage”
“What are people willing to commit to? What would you give your life for?” Moore said. “What would you be willing to actually put yourself on the line for? That moment is now. We are going to lose our democracy if we haven’t already. We have no choice, my friends. We all have to rise up.


-Michael Moore
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... er-of-rage

There will be no unity. The Mexicans will be raping and murdering Americans while Americans are fighting and dying for Mexifornia.

thomasglee
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Texas

Re: 2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America

Post by thomasglee »

Guest wrote:A book came out in the late 90's that foretold all of this. It must have seemed crazy when published in 1997, but many things the author wrote has or are coming true.

https://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-Two-Br ... ivil+war+2
"The Next 100 Years: A Forecast for the 21st Century" is a 2009 book by George Friedman that attempts to predict the major geopolitical events and trends of the 21st century. In the book, he talks about the coming war with Mexico, and he predicts Mexican territories will want to rejoin Mexico
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

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