14-Jun-18 World View -- After the Kim-Trump summit, US and N. Korea plan denuclearization details

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
Trevor
Posts: 1209
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:43 am

Re: 14-Jun-18 World View -- After the Kim-Trump summit, US and N. Korea plan denuclearization details

Post by Trevor »

John wrote: Where do you hear them? Who do you hear them from?
I will admit most of these aren't exactly what you would call official sources. I've read some articles from the Global Times and they appear to believe that their time is at hand. This especially seems to be the case around the so-called "Carrier killer", though I have no idea whether or not it actually lives up to the hype.

While I am fully aware that I shouldn't take Chinese individuals at their word, particular since some of them are trolls (Apparently the best living they can muster), there does seem to be an increase in claims that they could take on the U.S. and win easily. They don't believe that we'd actually fight, instead simply withdrawing and letting them do what they want in the Pacific.

thomasglee
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Texas

Re: 14-Jun-18 World View -- After the Kim-Trump summit, US and N. Korea plan denuclearization details

Post by thomasglee »

John wrote:
Trevor wrote: > A lot of people in China think they'll be able to win the war
> easily. America is weak. America loses wars. America is
> spineless. America doesn't have the stomach for a fight. I've been
> hearing these comments more and more over the past few
> years.
Where do you hear them? Who do you hear them from?
John, I can tell you that I've heard this not only from Chinese within the mainland, but also from ethnic Chinese living in countries such as Malaysia and Singapore. For many ethnic Chinese - some of whom might be 4th generation Chinese living in the aforementioned countries - their loyalty lies within their Chinese roots MORE than it lies within their home countries.
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

Guest

Re: 14-Jun-18 World View -- After the Kim-Trump summit, US and N. Korea plan denuclearization details

Post by Guest »

John, I can tell you that I've heard this not only from Chinese within the mainland, but also from ethnic Chinese living in countries such as Malaysia and Singapore. For many ethnic Chinese - some of whom might be 4th generation Chinese living in the aforementioned countries - their loyalty lies within their Chinese roots MORE than it lies within their home countries.
Well, yes and no. I have never met anyone from Taiwan personally that was loyal to Beijing. Most, but not all ethnic Chinese in Singapore I know are hostile to 'mainlanders'. They don't want to live under a corrupt Beijing and the unwashed hordes of Chinese peasants that make up mainland China. Hong Kong Chinese are now a minority in Hong Kong. Most of the HK Chinese now live in Australia or Canada. They are not pro-Chinese. Within China, many ethnic and linguistic minority groups hate other Chinese. Your view is not only simplistic, but false and misleading.

thomasglee
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Texas

Re: 14-Jun-18 World View -- After the Kim-Trump summit, US and N. Korea plan denuclearization details

Post by thomasglee »

Guest wrote:
John, I can tell you that I've heard this not only from Chinese within the mainland, but also from ethnic Chinese living in countries such as Malaysia and Singapore. For many ethnic Chinese - some of whom might be 4th generation Chinese living in the aforementioned countries - their loyalty lies within their Chinese roots MORE than it lies within their home countries.
Well, yes and no. I have never met anyone from Taiwan personally that was loyal to Beijing. Most, but not all ethnic Chinese in Singapore I know are hostile to 'mainlanders'. They don't want to live under a corrupt Beijing and the unwashed hordes of Chinese peasants that make up mainland China. Hong Kong Chinese are now a minority in Hong Kong. Most of the HK Chinese now live in Australia or Canada. They are not pro-Chinese. Within China, many ethnic and linguistic minority groups hate other Chinese. Your view is not only simplistic, but false and misleading.
Many Chinese from Malaysia and Singapore marry mainland Chinese women. My view is not simplistic nor false and misleading. I have spent many years conducting business in Malaysia, Singapore, and throughout Asia and I can tell you that you're wrong. I never said that Taiwan Chinese embrace mainlanders nor did I mention Hongese. I was speaking specifically to Malaysia and Singapore in this instance. But to reiterate, my point is that their loyalty lies within their Chineseness more than within their nationality. That's a fact that you can take to the bank. If you'd like, I can introduce you to several very well-heeled Singaporean and Malaysian Chinese who will tell you the same. They're more in touch with their mainland Chinese cousins than they are with their Bumiputra cousins.
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

Guest

Re: 14-Jun-18 World View -- After the Kim-Trump summit, US and N. Korea plan denuclearization details

Post by Guest »

thomasglee wrote:
Guest wrote:
John, I can tell you that I've heard this not only from Chinese within the mainland, but also from ethnic Chinese living in countries such as Malaysia and Singapore. For many ethnic Chinese - some of whom might be 4th generation Chinese living in the aforementioned countries - their loyalty lies within their Chinese roots MORE than it lies within their home countries.
Well, yes and no. I have never met anyone from Taiwan personally that was loyal to Beijing. Most, but not all ethnic Chinese in Singapore I know are hostile to 'mainlanders'. They don't want to live under a corrupt Beijing and the unwashed hordes of Chinese peasants that make up mainland China. Hong Kong Chinese are now a minority in Hong Kong. Most of the HK Chinese now live in Australia or Canada. They are not pro-Chinese. Within China, many ethnic and linguistic minority groups hate other Chinese. Your view is not only simplistic, but false and misleading.
Many Chinese from Malaysia and Singapore marry mainland Chinese women. My view is not simplistic nor false and misleading. I have spent many years conducting business in Malaysia, Singapore, and throughout Asia and I can tell you that you're wrong. I never said that Taiwan Chinese embrace mainlanders nor did I mention Hongese. I was speaking specifically to Malaysia and Singapore in this instance. But to reiterate, my point is that their loyalty lies within their Chineseness more than within their nationality. That's a fact that you can take to the bank. If you'd like, I can introduce you to several very well-heeled Singaporean and Malaysian Chinese who will tell you the same. They're more in touch with their mainland Chinese cousins than they are with their Bumiputra cousins.
Then why has Beijing left Singapore out of Belt and Road? Why does Singapore conduct military training in Taiwan and not mainland China? I know their are quislings in Singapore. I also know of the problems the Chinese minority has in Malaysia, but to paint the Chinese minority as loyal to Beijing is wrong. Just because some well-heeled Chinese you know are loyal to Beijing means very little. Chinese love to fight Chinese.

The Chinese diaspora will join the winners, be it China or America. The Fifth Column argument I believe works with mainlander immigrants in Australia, NZ, Canada, and the USA, but not so much with Chinese born and raised outside of China.

Miami Cubans do not support Cuba.

John
Posts: 11479
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: 14-Jun-18 World View -- After the Kim-Trump summit, US and N. Korea plan denuclearization details

Post by John »

thomasglee wrote: > John, I can tell you that I've heard this not only from Chinese
> within the mainland, but also from ethnic Chinese living in
> countries such as Malaysia and Singapore. For many ethnic Chinese
> - some of whom might be 4th generation Chinese living in the
> aforementioned countries - their loyalty lies within their Chinese
> roots MORE than it lies within their home countries.
Guest wrote: > Well, yes and no. I have never met anyone from Taiwan personally
> that was loyal to Beijing. Most, but not all ethnic Chinese in
> Singapore I know are hostile to 'mainlanders'. They don't want to
> live under a corrupt Beijing and the unwashed hordes of Chinese
> peasants that make up mainland China. Hong Kong Chinese are now a
> minority in Hong Kong. Most of the HK Chinese now live in
> Australia or Canada. They are not pro-Chinese. Within China, many
> ethnic and linguistic minority groups hate other Chinese. Your
> view is not only simplistic, but false and misleading.
thomasglee wrote: > Many Chinese from Malaysia and Singapore marry mainland Chinese
> women. My view is not simplistic nor false and misleading. I have
> spent many years conducting business in Malaysia, Singapore, and
> throughout Asia and I can tell you that you're wrong. I never
> said that Taiwan Chinese embrace mainlanders nor did I mention
> Hongese. I was speaking specifically to Malaysia and Singapore in
> this instance. But to reiterate, my point is that their loyalty
> lies within their Chineseness more than within their nationality.
> That's a fact that you can take to the bank. If you'd like, I can
> introduce you to several very well-heeled Singaporean and
> Malaysian Chinese who will tell you the same. They're more in
> touch with their mainland Chinese cousins than they are with their
> Bumiputra cousins.
Guest wrote: > Then why has Beijing left Singapore out of Belt and Road? Why does
> Singapore conduct military training in Taiwan and not mainland
> China? I know their are quislings in Singapore. I also know of the
> problems the Chinese minority has in Malaysia, but to paint the
> Chinese minority as loyal to Beijing is wrong. Just because some
> well-heeled Chinese you know are loyal to Beijing means very
> little. Chinese love to fight Chinese.

> The Chinese diaspora will join the winners, be it China or
> America. The Fifth Column argument I believe works with mainlander
> immigrants in Australia, NZ, Canada, and the USA, but not so much
> with Chinese born and raised outside of China.

> Miami Cubans do not support Cuba.
This is a highly significant discussion with important
implications.

Yes, Miami Cubans to not support Cuba, but that's just one
example.

In World War II, the American government interred Japanese-American
citizens but not German-American citizens. There are probably a lot
of reasons for that, not the least of which is that there were too
many German-Americans to even think about interring. But the main
thing is that there was a great deal of mutual American-Japanese
xenophobia prior to the war, and that turned into internment
during the war.

I've written several articles in the past few months about the Chinese
diaspora in New Zealand and Australia, and how Chinese students in
other countries are being used by Beijing to implement Beijing's
policies in these countries, such as delegitimizing Taiwan, and
Western ideals and values, such as liberal democracy, Christianity, or
Falun Gong.

These Chinese students in other countries are referred to by Beijing
as "Magic Weapons."

They're controlled by China's United Front Work Department.

This is a whole mindset that foreign to Americans. Americans
have sent students abroad to study at foreign universities,
and we've had the Peace Corps:
Peace Corps wrote: > Changing lives the world over

> The Peace Corps is a service opportunity for motivated
> changemakers to immerse themselves in a community abroad, working
> side by side with local leaders to tackle the most pressing
> challenges of our generation.

> The Peace Corps Mission

> To promote world peace and friendship by fulfilling three goals:
  • To help the people of interested countries in meeting their
    > need for trained men and women.
  • To help promote a better understanding of Americans on the part
    > of the peoples served.
  • To help promote a better understanding of other peoples on the
    > part of Americans.
> https://www.peacecorps.gov/about/
Now, I've never heard of anyone describing the Peace Corps
as a "magic weapon" or any sort of weapon.

But China does not have a "Peace Corps." It has a "Magic Weapons
Corps." This is a whole different mindset.


** 24-May-18 World View -- Australia-China relations in crisis after revelation of Chinese bribery scandal
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e180524


** 26-Feb-18 World View -- New book documents extensive Chinese infiltration into Australia's organizations
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e180226


** 16-Feb-18 World View -- Concerns grow over China's covert infiltration into New Zealand's government
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e180216


** 16-Dec-17 World View -- China-Australia relations plummet over China's illegal militarization of South China Sea
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e171216

CH86
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:51 am

Re: 14-Jun-18 World View -- After the Kim-Trump summit, US and N. Korea plan denuclearization details

Post by CH86 »

LOL boomers complaining that China is deviously using various means to advance it's perceived interests. The obvious answers to these actions is an counter-buildup and using persuasion and deterrence methods that the adversary culture (in this case China) understands. However this is refused by boomers because doing a buildup would be admitting that countries consider war and peace based on national interests and competing opportunities not because a government is pure evil or pure good. If boomers are forced to admit these facts it would mean that everything boomers advocated during the awakening was wrong.

For the above reasons Boomers refuse to reform foreign policy, economic policy or military policy, considering the 1990 synthesis encapsulated by Fukuyama's "end of history" to be 100% perfection in terms of policy conducts. Therefore any government that takes advantage of this system and cheats must be doing so because they have to be pure evil in order to want to tear down something that is 100 percent perfect, similarly anyone who advocates reform of the system must not know what they are talking about because the existing system is a perfect system. It is a circular worldview filled with confirmation bias that boomers ascribe to, and they expect Xers and Millies to be dispensaries of this worldview, no we are not boomers, we will never think like boomers. We will not fight with one hand tied behind our back. You want Xers and Millies to fight; then untie both our "hands" and give us control over strategy.

Boomer ideologues By declaring that Chinese and westerners DO NOT hate each other but simultaneously saying there must be war. If mutual Xenophobia is not sufficient to cause a war and yet if war is inevitable, then the cause of a war must be found elsewhere other than ethnic animus. Here Boomer ideologues give themselves away regarding their desire to forcibly impose a democratic government on Beijing, and Moscow as well for that matter. Boomers refuse to acknowledge the Putin government's right to rule in Russia or the CCP governments right to rule in Beijing. The problem generating potential WW3 tensions is not geopolitical, or incompatible national objectives, nor is the problem even a shift in the preponderance of force/correlation of forces/balance of terror, the problem is fundamentally ideological and derives from boomers refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of non-democratic governments. This ideological fixation is so much so that it was controversial that Trump shook hands with that North Korean general.

Similarly regarding the question of refugees, boomers refuse to countenance any choice by western countries that doesn't involve letting the refugees in one way or another. It is this generational force motivated by extreme selfishness that is preventing the west from executing the natural instinct of self-preservation and turning the refugees back. A turning back of the refugees would also lead to an increase in respect for western nation and perceived western strength by the non-democratic world. Therefore an expulsion would be a stabilizing event in international relations. It is the boomer and his/her moral code that is preventing this and in this and other international events is causing disorder in our world today. Boomers like John and silents like Sue mention our constitution and treaties we have signed, but there is nothing in the constitution that says we must accept the refugees or migrants. No is their any clause in the founding documents of most European countries for that matter, for example the treaty of Verdun of 843 (which founded France, Germany and Italy as nations) contains no reference to this, the post 1789 french revolutionary charter (which essentially founded modern France) does not contain mentions of migrants either.

Guest

Re: 14-Jun-18 World View -- After the Kim-Trump summit, US and N. Korea plan denuclearization details

Post by Guest »

The West can no longer avoid reality. Mass immigration is destroying /has destroyed The West. Either will expel the illegals, or we perish. Period.

Guest

Re: 14-Jun-18 World View -- After the Kim-Trump summit, US and N. Korea plan denuclearization details

Post by Guest »

I don't want this. Why are you doing this to me?

Guest

Re: 14-Jun-18 World View -- After the Kim-Trump summit, US and N. Korea plan denuclearization details

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:I don't want this. Why are you doing this to me?
Because your lips say, 'No', but your eyes say,' Yes'.

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