9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion

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John
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9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion

Post by John »

9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion

Protests grow against new IMF deal in Argentina


** 9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e180609



Contents:
Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion
Protests grow against new IMF deal in Argentina


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, Argentina, International Monetary Fund, IMF,
Mauricio Macri, Néstor Kirchner, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner,
Turkey, Russia, Brazil, Mexico

sue
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Re: 9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion

Post by sue »

Argentina harbored Nazi murderers which leaves their moral high ground in doubt. Never prosecuting the Iran-perpetrated Jewish bombing, jails full of long detained "offenders" to be tried, judges never given tenure are short list items of Argentinian govt's long-standing human rights continuing violations. For many years children were taken from their families and placed elsewhere.
That indigenous Argentinians are protesting against austerity, especially in view of over 35,000 Venezuelean refugees in country, is not a surprise. Populism has spread to the provinces. Who will benefit from the IMF monies? Under Macri's "leadership" the prospects for equal opportunity anything, jystice and free speech are not bright.

jmm1184
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Re: 9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion

Post by jmm1184 »

9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion
Where is Argentina on the generational timeline? I've suspected their last crisis wars was the Dirty War of the 1970s, possibly climaxing either in 1977 or 1979, which would put Argentina at the end of an awakening era and the beginning of an unraveling era.

Jack Edwards
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Re: 9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion

Post by Jack Edwards »

I lived in Argentina in the late 80's. The country could be so successful if it was just less corrupt and better managed. It has oil reserves, tremendous areas suited towards agricultural, a strong southern European tradition, beautiful beaches and mountains for tourism.

I saw first hand hyperinflation there. The worst month I remember was the one with 24% inflation. You live very differently when the money you have instantly becomes worth less. Spend everything you have immediately and then hold on until you get more money.

Once I asked a senior member of the fortune 500 company I work for if Argentina would ever get it's act together. He instantly said "no". It's a pity - but for lack of structure and commitment to the rule of law - they could have been something pretty special. A lesson for the US as to what will happen as we embrace the things Argentina has already embraced. Protectionism, corruption, strong unaccountable central government, a tendency towards socialism and a lack of commitment to law and structure. On this path go we.

John
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Re: 9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion

Post by John »

jmm1184 wrote: > Where is Argentina on the generational timeline? I've suspected
> their last crisis wars was the Dirty War of the 1970s, possibly
> climaxing either in 1977 or 1979, which would put Argentina at the
> end of an awakening era and the beginning of an unraveling
> era.
I've been unsuccessful in deciphering Argentina's generational
history, though I admit I haven't spent the hours and haven't read the
number of histories that would be necessary. However, the War of the
Triple Alliance (1864-1870) was a crisis war. One thing to look at
would be the Gran Chaco war, which was between Bolivia and Paraguay,
but there may have been something going on in Argentina at the same
time. Also, the death of Evita was a great shock to Argentina, and it
was followed by some sort of military uprising against Peron, so
that's another event that's worth looking at. And the Dirty War is
another possibility.

Perhaps Jack Edwards, who lived there in the 1980s, might have an
idea.

Jack Edwards
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Re: 9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion

Post by Jack Edwards »

John said:
Perhaps Jack Edwards, who lived there in the 1980s, might have an
idea.
Honestly don't know - I was young and not too history minded at the time. But I can tell you this, the Falkland Island war was very humiliating to the Argentines. So much so that it led to them overthrowing their military dictatorship after that debacle and established a democracy in 1983. Their constitution was if I recall correctly pretty identical to the US constitution with the exception that the President had to be Catholic. To me this seems like an awakening event and since that awakening event was about 10 years after the US awakening event that ousted Nixon, perhaps they are about 10 years behind the US. 1955 is when the military dictatorship ousted Peron (could that be their crisis event??).

Back in the late 80's, Peron was still very talked about, though long gone, and one of the strongest political parties was the Peronistas. The story I heard from locals was that Argentina didn't get involved with World War II instead they made a lot of money off selling arms and were very well off compared to the rest of the world at that time. Peron was a hero of the poor and down trodden and basically spent a bunch of money on the poor - though I'm not sure if he was a "socialist". I remember some people complaining that he built nice apartments for the Campesinos (rural folk) and that they were too ignorant to know how to use stoves so they built fire pits in their apartments. All that being said, in the 80's Argentina was known as having safe water throughout the country, not what you normally saw in South America - I think that can be attributed to the investment in infrastructure that Peron did, but that's just an assumption.

During the time of the militares there were people who would just "disappear" desaparecidos. There was a town close to where I was at where apparently they lined up a lot of people against a wall and executed them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_ ... Bel%C3%A9n There was some interesting graffiti in the town 12 years later about that event and I took a picture of it.

While I was there - they really weren't used to having a democracy and weren't real good at it. Some people wanted the military dictatorship back, but most didn't. I remember two attempted coups - but they didn't amount to much, you just didn't go anywhere near the police station where people were outside with machine guns and didn't go outside when it was dark for a couple of weeks. The situation blew over quickly.

OOTC

Re: 9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion

Post by OOTC »

I used to live in the Dominican Republic. Many people there miss the Trujillo dictatorship. He was cruel, but he paid off the national debt, ran budgetary surpluses, and crime was almost non existent. A lone woman could walk down the beach at night without fear of assault. Now women are attacked in broad daylight. Trujillo was undoubtedly cruel, but many Dominican openly wonder if the only way to motivate Latinos is to scare them? Trujillo was assassinated and the governments that followed went down the same road as the rest of Latin America: corruption at all levels of society, an explosion of violent crime, and most of the ignorant population blaming the 'Yankees' for all of their self-inflicted woes. Trujillo accepted responsibility for his country and spent his life rebuilding it. Now he dead, and no one will accept responsibility for anything. Latin America is hopeless. Think Africa.

-JP

FishbellykanakaDude
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Re: 9-Jun-18 World View -- Argentina faces major financial crisis as IMF loans it $50 billion

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

OOTC wrote:... Many people there miss the Trujillo dictatorship. ...
People often (or rather "generally") confuse, or conflate, authoritarianism with evil-ness.

I don't believe that "Latinos" NEED to be in fear of their leaders to "behave", but quite often people who are habituated to only accept threat as a motivator will misbehave if they aren't threatened.

The trick is to "retrain" them as to what they should be motivated by. The "LCD" (lowest common denominator) is and will always be "physical violence", and if that's the only "language" that's respected between parties, then that's what will be spoken. Not sayin' it should,.. just that it will be.

..Sometimes I think there should be a "time out" territory/"country" where the entire population of ill-behaving countries (including the "leaders") could be sent (!?) to be "re-educated" in how to communicate in some other way than physical violence.

Sort of like "International National After-School Detention", where, if you don't get your act together in a set period of time, you lose access to your old territory and it's given to another population that "promises" to behave better than you did.

..not sure what to do with those populations that "fail" detention, but perhaps that's what the Moon is actually for...

Aloha! :) <shaka nui!>

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