23-Jan-18 World View -- More than 100,000 Greeks hold mass protest over 'Macedonia' name change

[John]

23-Jan-18 World View -- More than 100,000 Greeks hold mass protest over 'Macedonia' name change

Massive protests in Thessaloniki Greece threaten Tsipras government

** 23-Jan-18 World View -- More than 100,000 Greeks hold mass protest over 'Macedonia' name change
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e180123


Contents:
Greece and Macedonia negotiate a contentious name change to replace FYROM
Massive protests in Thessaloniki Greece threaten Tsipras government


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, Greece, Macedonia, Balkans, Yugoslavia,
Kingdom of Macedon, Alexander the Great,
Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, FYROM,
Alexis Tsipras, Zoran Zaev, Vardar River, Axios River,
Thessaloniki, Salonica, Archbishop Ieronymos

[CH86]

To John X and other Boomers; Look at The mass protests of the Greek people is forcing policy changes both in Greece and Macedonia. This is because unlike America; Greece actually has a government that listens to their citizenry. The Greek Government unlike the boomer dominated US government doesn't regard their citizens rights as something to be disposed of or invalidated if the citizens don't show sufficient "responsibility". Instead since the government there pledged to respect the citizens under the law the citizens there have right of redress and the right to influence government policy regardless of whether their views are correct or "moral" unless the citizen has committed a grievous crime under the law.

[John]

> To John X and other Boomers; Look at The mass protests of the
> Greek people is forcing policy changes both in Greece and
> Macedonia. This is because unlike America; Greece actually has a
> government that listens to their citizenry. The Greek Government
> unlike the boomer dominated US government doesn't regard their
> citizens rights as something to be disposed of or invalidated if
> the citizens don't show sufficient "responsibility". Instead since
> the government there pledged to respect the citizens under the law
> the citizens there have right of redress and the right to
> influence government policy regardless of whether their views are
> correct or "moral" unless the citizen has committed a grievous
> crime under the law.

You're completely confusing horizontal fault lines
(inter-generational) with vertical fault lines (inter-ethnic,
inter-religion, inter-geographical, etc.)

To my knowledge, there are no generational splits involved with the
Macedonia name change issues. As far as I know, the Thessaloniki
protests involved all generations. These splits are entirely ethnic
-- Greeks versus a population that calls itself Macedonians, but which
the Greeks (or at least the most extreme, nationalistic Greeks) call
Bulgarians or Albanians.

So, unsurprisingly, your comment doesn't even make sense.

[Dean]

The Greek government, as a small part of the EU, has little control over anything.

[John]

> The Greek government, as a small part of the EU, has little
> control over anything.

That's true, except for one thing: Thanks to a quirk in international
law and EU law, Greece has a veto power over Macedonia's name.

[CH86]

> To John X and other Boomers; Look at The mass protests of the
> Greek people is forcing policy changes both in Greece and
> Macedonia. This is because unlike America; Greece actually has a
> government that listens to their citizenry. The Greek Government
> unlike the boomer dominated US government doesn't regard their
> citizens rights as something to be disposed of or invalidated if
> the citizens don't show sufficient "responsibility". Instead since
> the government there pledged to respect the citizens under the law
> the citizens there have right of redress and the right to
> influence government policy regardless of whether their views are
> correct or "moral" unless the citizen has committed a grievous
> crime under the law.

You're completely confusing horizontal fault lines
(inter-generational) with vertical fault lines (inter-ethnic,
inter-religion, inter-geographical, etc.)

To my knowledge, there are no generational splits involved with the
Macedonia name change issues. As far as I know, the Thessaloniki
protests involved all generations. These splits are entirely ethnic
-- Greeks versus a population that calls itself Macedonians, but which
the Greeks (or at least the most extreme, nationalistic Greeks) call
Bulgarians or Albanians.

So, unsurprisingly, your comment doesn't even make sense.

The Fault line on this issue is between Greeks and Macedonians, however the Greek government is composed mostly of Xers and younger. Therefore the Citizenry's input in how to proceed regarding the international Fault Line is listened to. This is NOT the case in America, where boomers cherry-pick "responsible" "moral" and "Mature" suggestions instead of listening to the complete will of the citizenry. Yes there is a political fault line in which boomers choose "conservative" or "liberal" suggestions from those "responsible" choices but both sides tend to ignore the complete will of the citizenry in which suggestions are given a fair hearing regardless of the "maturity" level of those suggestions.

[John]

> The Fault line on this issue is between Greeks and Macedonians,
> however the Greek government is composed mostly of Xers and
> younger. Therefore the Citizenry's input in how to proceed
> regarding the international Fault Line is listened to. This is NOT
> the case in America, where boomers cherry-pick "responsible"
> "moral" and "Mature" suggestions instead of listening to the
> complete will of the citizenry. Yes there is a political fault
> line in which boomers choose "conservative" or "liberal"
> suggestions from those "responsible" choices but both sides tend
> to ignore the complete will of the citizenry in which suggestions
> are given a fair hearing regardless of the "maturity" level of
> those suggestions.

You're making up facts as you go along, which is a daily occurrence
for you.

You say, "the Greek government is composed mostly of Xers and
younger." Where do you get that? Are you referring to the left-wing
Syriza politicians that favor compromise with Macedonia, or are you
referring to the right-wing New Democracy politicians that favor no
compromise? And who do you mean by "the Citizenry"?

Really, you should just stick to your vitriolic diatribes against
Americans in your father's generation, since those will require making
up fewer facts.

[FishbellykanakaDude]

...

The Fault line on this issue is between Greeks and Macedonians, however the Greek government is composed mostly of Xers and younger. Therefore the Citizenry's input in how to proceed regarding the international Fault Line is listened to.

This is NOT the case in America, where boomers cherry-pick "responsible" "moral" and "Mature" suggestions instead of listening to the complete will of the citizenry.

Yes there is a political fault line in which boomers choose "conservative" or "liberal" suggestions from those "responsible" choices but both sides tend to ignore the complete will of the citizenry in which suggestions are given a fair hearing regardless of the "maturity" level of those suggestions.

The question, then, is: Is "free speech (of opinion)" or "mature opinion" more valuable? And "to whom"?

The "Macedonia Name" issue is PURE emotion. It's really very silly, objectively, but the emotionality makes it very not silly.

So, is it "wiser" to actually "deal with" a purely emotional situation that (likely) has no "acceptable solution" (no non-war solution), or wiser for "the adults" to take charge and tamp down "probable war"?

The "fault line" is certainly non-generational, but the "response" will be determined by the generational fault.



I support "free speech" between those with "mature opinions". (Actually, I always support free speech to non-free speech, but free speech between non-mature opinion holders is the very description of "prelude to war".)

The masses are never characterized by "mature opinions". That doesn't mean they're wrong. It just means that emotions will ALWAYS trump "maturity" as regards the "attitude" of a "mass population".

BUT,.. demographics trumps every damn thing,.. so "get ready to RUMMMMMMMMMMMBLE..!!!"

Aloha nui gangies! Mahaloz fo evabody! <Shaka nui loa!>

[devorah]

This has been an intense day for you, John. I've put in similar hours on Breitbart dealing mainly with amnesty-not and Afghanistan
Greece is an ancient civilization that, despite wisdom and philosophers, can't seem to get its stuff together. Greece expects instant citizen attention to its military needs and in return gives socialist benefits. That doesn't work out well on the international economic scene, but nevermind.
This is a volatile situation. These are the people whose Athen churches shoot off fire works AT each other in January. When John talks about emotions, he may mean nth degree expressions of emotions. Obviously this is more than what's in a name. Those Davos negotiators better return to Greece/Macedonia with a better plan than, "this is our decision: deal with it". Somewhere I have pictures from the military coup that took place after WWII.
As told by the opening photo, this is no debate in the forum or agora.

[Guest]

Both sides are wrong. Macedonians were not Greek. They were Macedonians. The Greeks considered Macs to be foreigners, not fellow Greeks. Alexander the Great's mother was Illyrian (Albanian). The Macs are just Slavs from Russia, like the Serbs. I think it's quite obnoxious of both sides to argue of this. It's like Koreans an Chinese arguing over which race should call themselves Japanese.