4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?

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John
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4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?

Postby John » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:00 pm

4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?


Will the United States take some military action against North Korea?

** 4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/xct.gd.e170904.htm#e170904



Contents:
Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?
World leaders express outrage and call nuclear test 'unacceptable'
Will the United States take some military action against North Korea?


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, North Korea, South Korea, Moon Jae-in,
Ri Chun-Hee, Kune Y. Suh, Japan, Shinzo Abe, China, Xi Jinping,
Steven Mnuchin, Donald Trump, Lindsey Graham, James Mattis,
Rex Tillerson

Guest

Re: 4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?

Postby Guest » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:13 am

The media has never supported Donald Trump, and countries have taken advantage of that to run wild. And Congress has joined in the attacks on President Trump and paralyzed him politically.The Congressional Democrats and the Republicans are more concerned with their own salaries and future board of directors positions to help President Trump reform the country.

Now, one of the world's most vicious and cruel regimes has developed atomic bombs and all the Congress and press can do is attack President Trump and try to undermine his leadership. At the crucial and pivotal point in history, all Trump's opponents can do is try to undermine him and topple him from power? At this moment? What ever Trump does next, his enemies will condemn him. Whatever he does.

I have never witnessed such short sighted and selfish behavior from the political classes of the United States in all my life.

Donald Trump has to eliminate this threat. One way or the other. Slash Chinese exports drastically and send the Chinese economy into a tailspin or attack North Korea and destroy it utterly. And, if need be, destroy China. China is plotting to stab us in the back. Why not attack them first?

DaKardii
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:17 am

Re: 4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?

Postby DaKardii » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:57 am

John wrote:4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?


Will the United States take some military action against North Korea?

** 4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/xct.gd.e170904.htm#e170904


Why hasn't North Korea been paralyzed by a STUXNET-like cyberattack? Shouldn't that have been tried by now?

Contents:
Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?
World leaders express outrage and call nuclear test 'unacceptable'
Will the United States take some military action against North Korea?


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, North Korea, South Korea, Moon Jae-in,
Ri Chun-Hee, Kune Y. Suh, Japan, Shinzo Abe, China, Xi Jinping,
Steven Mnuchin, Donald Trump, Lindsey Graham, James Mattis,
Rex Tillerson

Talking doesnt work

Re: 4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?

Postby Talking doesnt work » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:12 am

North Korea has a hydrogen bomb?! What are we waiting for? The North Koreans to drop it on Guam? We have to strike immediately. KILL OR BE KILLED.

Brendan
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:34 pm

Re: 4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?

Postby Brendan » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:23 am

Two things:

1. Does anyone else think the "Pyongyang residents cheer the televised announcement (Reuters)" picture is hilarious. It is clearly the most forced photo they've ever seen to the point that I might as well assume that they have machine guns behind the camera.

2. I'm still questioning China's role in all of this. I know on the surface they condemn and yada yada but I just find it so hard to believe that they aren't still supporting them. First we know that even as of very recently they had been helping the program along. I HIGHLY doubt that they just changed their minds over night because Trump wanted them to. They would just make it more discrete.
The other point I want to make is more speculation, but It seems that their progress has picked up substantially since Trump's election. It is possible this is just a bias from hearing about it more. It just seems weird and discontinuous to me that the second a guy comes along and calls out China for what it is their proxy state becomes, almost over night, a state with full fledged hydrogen capabilities. On top of that they have started making overt shows of aggression. I know apart of this is probably just the differences between Obama and Trump. If you have a president who doesn't want to call it for what it is then just continue progress discretely until you have to be up front but in the meantime buy time. The other side though is it is just hard to believe that China is as powerless to controlling NK as they lead on. NK is essentially a dependent appendage to the PRC.
China's Foreign Ministry said:
[North Korea] disregarded universal opposition of the international community by conducting the test. We strongly urge North Korea side to face up to the firm will of the international community on the denuclearization of the peninsula, abide by relevant resolutions of the UN Security Council, stop taking wrong actions that exacerbate the situation and are not in its own interest, and return to the track of resolving the issue through dialogue."


China here is (as multiple states do) appealing to the international community and the UN which they have a track record of ignoring when it suits them. When I read this I think yeah China obviously can't publicly support it but the response is so toned down and white washed that you can tell they obviously don't care and know thats what everyone wants to hear from them. If NK actually pissed China off (for testing NUCLEAR WEAPONS near their border) you would hear their typical irrational (almost child like) tone of WE ARE BIG CHINA SUBMIT OR DIE. I think from their perspective they see it as worst case scenario they lob some nukes at one of our enemies and gets destroyed in the process and then we will have a pretense to start the war we are preparing for when the time is right for us.

----

One commonality between NK and WWII Germany is a sense of desperation is driving their aggression. From the perspective of GD it seems that those groups of people can feel they are being pushed out which leads them to lash out (much like an animal backed into a corner). Many things can be justified by oneself if oneself feels their life is at stake. Crisis wars, it seems, are when societies revert back to its primitive animal brains of survival and is probably why the leaders and the society seem so irrational.

ZZaZZ

Re: 4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?

Postby ZZaZZ » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:59 pm

I noticed you made no attempt to give the GD explanation for war with NK. Could it be because there is none?

Brendan
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:34 pm

Re: 4-Sep-17 World View -- Will we have to accept a world in which North Korea is a nuclear power?

Postby Brendan » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:26 pm

ZZaZZ wrote:I noticed you made no attempt to give the GD explanation for war with NK. Could it be because there is none?


First thing to clarify is that GD is a model and like any model (especially those that attempt to model human behavior) isn't without limitations so to answer your question: absolutely possible. What potentially complicates this matter is NK is an incredibly oppressive state where the will of the people is much more isolated from the ruling class unlike America.

I really think that (especially from the perspective of GD) you can't completely separate NK and China. The reality is they have a shared ethnic and values history and in their current state were established as similar communist states at approximately the same time and NK has been used as a proxy for China for some time. From a high level of GD, the austerity measure of America being the policeman of the world is coming undone. I think the China/NK viewpoint is encapsulated pretty well in a recent quote by the chinese foreign ministry on the recent h-bomb:

Washington needs to accept the fact that it does not hold absolute authority over the world. North Korea, despite its weak strength, could confront the US for reasons America does not understand. Flexing muscles will not intimidate Pyongyang. Washington needs patience to untie the deadlock.


Right there we see the fundamental challenge that China is making to US: "you're not the policeman anymore".

P.S. As a quick aside I would like to point out that China ends with stressing patience. From China's perspective they want patience because they need more time to prepare. This is where I am conflicted with the China/NK relationship because they don't disagree with any of the sentiment more so the timing. China just seems to be slightly more rational than NK.


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