15-Aug-17 World View -- Pakistan celebrates its 70th birthday, wondering what Pakistan is

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
FishbellykanakaDude

Re: 15-Aug-17 World View -- Pakistan celebrates its 70th birthday, wondering what Pakistan is

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

jmm1184 wrote:...
One thing I suspect in the Irish Potato famine that made it different than your "typical" famine, is both proportion of the deaths and the fact that it caused mass emigration from Ireland. It could be that Ireland experienced a first-turning due to both a large proportion of the population dying from the famine and to an equally large portion emigrating from Ireland. Both events could be traumatic enough to change the generational dynamics of Irish society.

One good indicator is that the Irish memory of the famine is much greater than is typical for most societies.
MEMORY of some "unnatural" violence against a "group population" (nation) that tried to "exterminate" them, and FAILED, is THE (singular) trigger for "the reset",.. which is the authority given to the "oldsters" to organize and enforce a "never again" policy within the society as a whole.

Thatʻs the "generalized" version of the dynamic of the "reset" in GD theory.
In most societies famines are largely forgotten or become associated with related or contemporary wars. But for the Irish the famine has a much greater imprint on their historical memory, I suspect due to the high number of deaths and an equally high number of people who left. [/qoute]

The irish have a long memory of the famine because of the english using it to kill off the irish, without "appearing" to do so, which simply reinforced the "common opinion" of the irish that their primary enemy "has always been" the english. Thatʻs not a particularly accurate opinion, of course, as for most of history the "primary enemy" of the irish has been OTHER irish sub-groups.

Thatʻs the primary "wackiness" of the celts, as a whole, of course, which is that "fraternal" infighting has always been "more important" than dealing with outsiders.
With much of Ireland depopulated (I think Ireland has only just recently regained the population it had before the famine), a kind of first-turning reset occurred. The lack of violence can be explained by the depopulation. So much of Ireland was devastated that there was little energy to fight a new rebellion against the British.
The "remaining" irish (on the island) were literally exhausted, and the "wise oldsters", seeing that the survival of the "irish on the island" was no longer threatened, as the english needed slaves to make the land useful, decided to "kick the can down the road" into the lap of the generations to follow who would (hopefully) be better prepared to deal with it.
Thus, similar to other first-turning resets (the Puritan settlement of Plymouth Rock, the Great Trek of the Boers, and others), while no genocidal violence was involved, the upheaval the population underwent was so great that it reset the generational dynamics.
The irish PERCEPTION is that there WAS great violence, perpetrated by the english. I donʻt believe that a reset CAN be triggered without there being an ATTRIBUTION of Genocidal Intent by the agent of violence.

It might be interesting to see if there are any examples in history of a reset occurring without Genocidal Intent being attributed to anyone,.. or to God!
While generational dynamics is set around crisis wars, the main indicator that propels generational dynamics is some sort of event that is so powerful that it marks a turning point in the collective memory of a people. This is usually a crisis war, with both the need for the group to unite in the face of destruction, and in the horrific violence done to the group by "the other." The memories of both the horrors of the wars and the memory of the shared effort mark the survivors for life. Even if the society undergoes a horrific major war, such as WWII in Russia or WWI in Western Europe, if the "survivor" generations are still in power "post-crisis" generations will both rely on them for leadership and rebel or compete against their authority. Either way, the survivors set the standard.

A similar event can take place if the population undergoes collective upheaval, such as a massive famine (on the scale of the Irish Potato famine) or relocation as a group to a new place. The trauma and upheaval works the same as genocidal violence in a crisis war.
Bingo! ..or Bomhp, if your right hand shifts rightward a bit while typing and you donʻt correct it,.. which I did,.. thank goodness.

..except the trauma and upheaval must be attributable to a "genocidal outsider" intent on your utter annihilation.

Perhaps, if your groupʻs SINS have caused GOD to bring down "genocidal forces" upon your people, as perceived by the would-be ruler(s) of the surviving "remnant" after the "event", then the genocidal intent COULD be attributed to "the devil", in the form of the weather/environment (famine/pestilence/disease), and NOT attribut the intent to another human group at all.

FishbellykanakaDude

Re: 15-Aug-17 World View -- Pakistan celebrates its 70th birthday, wondering what Pakistan is

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

..sorry about the errant quoting-formating1 :)

Aloha gangies! <shaka!>

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