29-Apr-17 World View -- Protesters storm Macedonia's parliament fearing calls for 'Greater Albania'

[John]

29-Apr-17 World View -- Protesters storm Macedonia's parliament fearing calls for 'Greater Albania'

Brief generational history of Macedonia

** 29-Apr-17 World View -- Protesters storm Macedonia's parliament fearing calls for 'Greater Albania'
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e170429

Contents:
Protesters storm Macedonia's parliament fearing calls for 'Greater Albania'
Brief generational history of Macedonia
Heidelberg Conflict Barometer


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, Macedonia, Albania, Greater Albania,
Italy, Benito Mussolini,
Alexander the Great, Yugoslavia, Marshall Josip Broz Tito,
The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, FYROM,
Greece, Balkan Route, Heidelberg Conflict Barometer

[Guest]

John, there are some mistakes in this article. Since you use Serbian sources, you might have been misinformed.

Greater Albania simply reflects the population of Albanians and lost territory. There are around 16 million ethnic Albanians, but only around two million live in Albania. The Albanians are more like the Poles, having been deprived of their own nation state for hundreds of years, and having to fight long wars of independence and against the Ottoman Turks, Greeks, Serbs, Montenegrins, Italians, and even the Austrians and Germans.

Most Albanian territory is now located in other countries. Albania itself is a natural fortress of mountains. The Albanian Communist riddled the country with 850,000 contrete and steel bunkers and thousands of kilometers of bomb proof tunnels and nuclear bomb shelters.

Tito did not take over in 1953. Tito, a Croatian, fought the Nazis and Serbian Cetniks in the 1940s and emerged as the ruler of Yuugoslavia in 1945. The egregious behavior of Russian soldiers during and after the war lead to a break with Russia in 1948.

Albania violently broke with the Warsaw Pact in the early 1960s and realigned with China.

The Albanians have been victims of ethnic cleansing and horrific brutality.

The idea of 'Greater Albania' is just that, an idea. Albanians will never unite because the elites in each country don't want to share power. The average Albanian, if treated fairly, is content to live in whatever country they find themselves. (Albanians in Slovenia, Croatia, and Muslim Bosnia, and Southern Italy (where they have lived for since the 1500s) are well integrated into those societies.) Several leading businessmen, politicians, and even war heroes live in those countries. Very few Albanians really want a super state.

The Serbs, who have used mass rape and genocide, have actively been trying to create a 'Greater Serbia" for hundreds of years, love to accuse everyone else of doing exactly what they have been trying to do. The Serbs are the threat to Balkan peace, not the Albanians.

[guest]

It was ethnic Macedonian nationalists who stormed parliament, not Albanians.

[guest]

You have really botched this story.

Today had NOTHING to do with "Greater Albania". This was about Macedonian trouble makers attacking moderate Macedonians and Albanians. Macedonia's current problems are political, not ethnic. The former government was involved in all kinds of criminal activities and plays the hate card whenever they could (or can, in this case). It's not the Albanians stirring up trouble, it's the former administration. You know nothing about the Balkans.

[John]

> John, there are some mistakes in this article. Since you use
> Serbian sources, you might have been misinformed.

> Greater Albania simply reflects the population of Albanians and
> lost territory. There are around 16 million ethnic Albanians, but
> only around two million live in Albania. The Albanians are more
> like the Poles, having been deprived of their own nation state for
> hundreds of years, and having to fight long wars of independence
> and against the Ottoman Turks, Greeks, Serbs, Montenegrins,
> Italians, and even the Austrians and Germans.

> Most Albanian territory is now located in other countries. Albania
> itself is a natural fortress of mountains. The Albanian Communist
> riddled the country with 850,000 contrete and steel bunkers and
> thousands of kilometers of bomb proof tunnels and nuclear bomb
> shelters.

> Tito did not take over in 1953. Tito, a Croatian, fought the Nazis
> and Serbian Cetniks in the 1940s and emerged as the ruler of
> Yuugoslavia in 1945. The egregious behavior of Russian soldiers
> during and after the war lead to a break with Russia in 1948.

> Albania violently broke with the Warsaw Pact in the early 1960s
> and realigned with China.

> The Albanians have been victims of ethnic cleansing and horrific
> brutality.

> The idea of 'Greater Albania' is just that, an idea. Albanians
> will never unite because the elites in each country don't want to
> share power. The average Albanian, if treated fairly, is
> content to live in whatever country they find
> themselves. (Albanians in Slovenia, Croatia, and Muslim Bosnia,
> and Southern Italy (where they have lived for since the 1500s) are
> well integrated into those societies.) Several leading
> businessmen, politicians, and even war heroes live in those
> countries. Very few Albanians really want a super state.

> The Serbs, who have used mass rape and genocide, have actively
> been trying to create a 'Greater Serbia" for hundreds of years,
> love to accuse everyone else of doing exactly what they have been
> trying to do. The Serbs are the threat to Balkan peace, not
> the Albanians.

> It was ethnic Macedonian nationalists who stormed parliament, not
> Albanians.

> You have really botched this story.

> Today had NOTHING to do with "Greater Albania". This was about
> Macedonian trouble makers attacking moderate Macedonians and
> Albanians. Macedonia's current problems are political, not
> ethnic. The former government was involved in all kinds of
> criminal activities and plays the hate card whenever they could
> (or can, in this case). It's not the Albanians stirring up
> trouble, it's the former administration. You know nothing about
> the Balkans.

Thanks for the comments. I've made changes and corrected the errors.
In a future article, I'll try to be more nuanced about the "Greater
Albania" issue. However, it's not a trivial issue, and it's about a
lot more than government corruption, since Albanians and Macedonians
have fought more than one war.

[guest]

I think you're missing a major point: it's not the Albanians causing trouble. The Serbs, backed by the Russians, are the dangerous ones.

[John]

> I think you're missing a major point: it's not the Albanians
> causing trouble. The Serbs, backed by the Russians, are the
> dangerous ones.

So Thursday night's protests were about the Serbs?

[guest]

> I think you're missing a major point: it's not the Albanians
> causing trouble. The Serbs, backed by the Russians, are the
> dangerous ones.

So Thursday night's protests were about the Serbs?

Yes. That's what I'm saying. The Serbs and Russians are stirring up trouble. This is about many things: Kosova, Bosnia, and Montenegro. It's about 'Greater Serbia". The Serbs want to restart the war and then use it as an excuse to unite breakaway areas of Bosnia and Kosova with Serbia. Montenegro is to be forced out of NATO, perhaps destroying NATO in the process. The former would benefit Serbia, the latter, Russia.

The antipathy between Macedonians and Albanians is not nearly what some would have you believe.

The Serbs have lost relevance and are still largely pariahs in Europe. The Serbs can't stand being irrelevant. The Serbs feel like Serbia should be the center of the universe. They still think of themselves as being 'a bridge between East and West'. The Serbs want to be important. That Serbia has been largely forgotten, except as an infamous footnote in history, drives the Serbs mad. Russia, like Serbia, wants to be relevant. It really boils down to that.

[John]

> Yes. That's what I'm saying. The Serbs and Russians are stirring
> up trouble. This is about many things: Kosova, Bosnia, and
> Montenegro. It's about 'Greater Serbia". The Serbs want to restart
> the war and then use it as an excuse to unite breakaway areas of
> Bosnia and Kosova with Serbia. Montenegro is to be forced out of
> NATO, perhaps destroying NATO in the process. The former would
> benefit Serbia, the latter, Russia.

> The antipathy between Macedonians and Albanians is not nearly what
> some would have you believe.

> The Serbs have lost relevance and are still largely pariahs in
> Europe. The Serbs can't stand being irrelevant. The Serbs feel
> like Serbia should be the center of the universe. They still think
> of themselves as being 'a bridge between East and West'. The Serbs
> want to be important. That Serbia has been largely forgotten,
> except as an infamous footnote in history, drives the Serbs
> mad. Russia, like Serbia, wants to be relevant. It really boils
> down to that.

You haven't identified yourself, so I'm assuming that you're Albanian,
or at least pro-Albanian.

Here's an article from 2014 that describes the relations between Serbs
and Albanians:

> Why is there tension between Serbia and Albania?

> last updated: 15/10/2014
> Chris Harris

> A Euro2016 qualifier between Serbia and Albania was called off on
> October 14, 2014, after fights among players and supporters,
> sparked by a drone with a pro-Kosovo flag landing on the
> pitch. Here euronews examines why both countries are at
> loggerheads.

> The tension centres around the history of Kosovo, a disputed area
> between Serbia and Albania. The majority of its inhabitants are
> ethnic Albanians.

> Kosovo had enjoyed a high degree of autonomy within Serbia. But
> that changed in 1989 when the then province’s status was
> rescinded, bringing it under the direct control of Belgrade, the
> capital of Serbia.

> It came as communism was collapsing in Europe. That saw increased
> nationalism in Yugoslavia, which was made up of Slovenia, Croatia,
> Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia.

> Slovenia, Croatia and the Muslim government of Bosnia-Herzegovina
> declared independence from Yugoslavia in the early 1990s.

>
> Serbs in Bosnia-Herzegovina opposed this and began attacking the
> country’s Muslims, forming the basis of the Balkans War.

> Then, in 1998, Slobodan Milosevic launched a Serb attack against
> ethnic Albanians, who were fighting for independence in Kosovo.

> The conflict saw at least 5,000 Kosovans executed, according to
> NATO. One-and-a-half million people, 90% of Kosovo’s population,
> had been expelled from their homes.

> NATO intervened and in June 1999 Serbian troops withdrew from
> Kosovo.

> After the war Kosovo was placed under transitional UN
> administration, while the region’s future status was hammered out.

> Talks broke down in 2007. Then, the following year, Kosovo
> declared independence from Serbia.

> The government of Serbia does not recognise Kosovo’s independence.
> However talks took place in 2013 which saw a thawing of relations.

> Serbia now recognises the government in Pristina – the captial of
> Kosovo – exercises administrative authority over Kosovo.

> COMPETING CLAIMS FOR KOSOVO

> Serbs settled in the Balkans in the 7th century and ruled Kosovo
> for more than two centuries until, in 1389, following the Battle
> of Kosovo, control passed to the Ottoman Empire.

> Kosovo remained part of Ottoman territory until the Balkan Wars of
> 1912, when it was re-conquered by Serbia.

> It is perhaps Serbia’s medieval period of control of Kosovo which
> lies behind nationalists’ claims to the province – some consider
> it the cradle of the culture and state of the Serbian people.

> But Albanian claims to the territory pre-date the arrival of the
> Serbs. Nationalists argue Albanians are descendants of an ancient
> tribe who allegedly inhabited the western Balkans before the 7th
> century.

> http://www.euronews.com/2014/10/15/why- ... nd-albania

So the issues between the Serbs and Albanians are pretty complex
and deep.

Your comments haven't connected the dots between the Serb-Albanian
issues and the Macedonian protests on Thursday.

[anon]

John,

You seem to have missed the sinking of a Russian military vessel by a collision with a Turkish freighter. Given the nature and normal behavior of Turks and Russians, I'd say the Russians were doing their usual thing of playing chicken with other vessels, and the Turkish captain simply rammed them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/a-russia ... key-2017-4

As for North Korea, there is no solution short of killing everyone in the country old enough to be indoctrinated in their religious leadership system. Yes, that's what it is, reading the press releases on Kim's death was more than enough proof of that.

Essentially, North Korea is a gigantic Jim Jones cult with a 7.7 million man army (counting reserves and paramilitary).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... _personnel

To actually fight them conventionally, you'd have to assume they'd stand up and fight, and that we'd get a 7 to 1 kill ratio, and that no part of them would fade back and use the guerilla tactics they've been trained in. None of which would be likely to be true, and moreover, you'd be assuming they have nothing hidden or mobile in the way of missiles, and you'd also be assuming they would not have the backing of China - and they do.

Going nuclear at the start of the fight would not win it, it would simply make it impossible to stop. And the USA is far more vulnerable to nukes than North Korea, vis the Floyd Commission. https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/ ... 13-EMP.pdf

http://www.empcommission.org/

North Korea is perhaps the most bunkered and dug in country on the planet. And they don't depend on electricity the way the USA does. And they are certainly the most militarized.

Perhaps the most rational thing to do would be to kill every member of the Jong family, including all children, and every current member of the "peoples government". That might shock the North Koreans enough to cause a reversion to normalcy over time.